How did it all get so messed up

[keepyourheadup]

At the risk of being ridiculed for asking this question I'll go for it....what should a player do when six of the best ten players in his association at the bantam level choose to bail for greener pastures. This is a player who would grade out in the top five or six, Yes he's from Lakeville south and the meltdown continues as another top player has bailed for the fire. It seems friends, loyalty, commitment, and most other virtues are being tossed aside in the name of "development". What ever happened to growing up playing with your buds and if you were good enough maybe you got a shot after high school. I've just witnessed the total destruction of a youth hockey team and I can't help but wonder why? I have no illusions of d1 and all the glory, I'm just trying to help my son understand the madness going on around him. By my count maybe 15 to 20 players a year end up moving on to division 1 hockey at some point, does it seem reasonable that a quarter of them are residing in Lakeville?

[really?]

What else is there to do? Move on and keep playing. The team has not been "totally destroyed". There is a lot of heart and class left in that group of players/coaches.

[quote="keepyourheadup"]At the risk of being ridiculed for asking this question I'll go for it....what should a player do when six of the best ten players in his association at the bantam level choose to bail for greener pastures. This is a player who would grade out in the top five or six, Yes he's from Lakeville south and the meltdown continues as another top player has bailed for the fire. It seems friends, loyalty, commitment, and most other virtues are being tossed aside in the name of "development". What ever happened to growing up playing with your buds and if you were good enough maybe you got a shot after high school. I've just witnessed the total destruction of a youth hockey team and I can't help but wonder why? I have no illusions of d1 and all the glory, I'm just trying to help my son understand the madness going on around him. By my count maybe 15 to 20 players a year end up moving on to division 1 hockey at some point, does it seem reasonable that a quarter of them are residing in Lakeville?[/quote]

[keepyourheadup]

Heart and class are fine attributes but don't replace skill or athleticism, The team has been reduced to a B team and I'm still left wondering why.

[Frozen Water]

I think those six kids leaving are the ones who are short changing themselves. I bet only one or two of those kids even play after high school. I do think the Lakeville Bantam A can absorb the loss of these six kids though. You might be surprised with how fast their replacements develop. Winning at the Bantam level should not be that important anyway.

[puttinthefoilon]

does the fire have a website that shows their teams rosters?
I saw what seemed to be a young fire team practicing yesterday, like squirt age. Are they still skating as a summer team or do they have one at that level for winter?

[jackstraw]

If I am not mistaken, the Fire has to have a certain % of rostered players from the state they are registered in. I don't think they can absorb too many. Boy, those parents are really going to show Mn Hockey what a mistake they made not letting them change districts THIS year! This isn't how we should be teaching our kids to deal with disagreements, just bail.

[really?]

[quote="keepyourheadup"]Heart and class are fine attributes but don't replace skill or athleticism, The team has been reduced to a B team and I'm still left wondering why.[/quote]

I think it ends up just a "average A team" but regardless - "Ego" is the answer to your question. And you're right, heart & class don't replace skill or athleticism but, in my book, skill and athleticism are useless without the other two attributes. What do you want your kid to get out of the whole thing?

[keepyourheadup]

Trust me this will be no average A team, Two returning players,one of which is likely to leave, 2 or three quality first years and the rest are a collection of players who either never made an A team or were third liners. They have at least 5 players who should have 911 on speed dial due to the likelyhood of injury because they are so far in over their heads. Great kids each, unfortunately that doesn't make them great hockey players.

[inthestands]

I don't have personal knowledge of this situation, but have seen similar issues elsewhere.

This is what happens when parents step in and decide what's best for the players "future".. Most kids would be better players if they got back to doing what is fun, with less grown ups and structuring. Not that structure is a bad thing, but too much of a good thing is still too much. Today many programs are all structure.

Sorry to get off track on your thread. At the end of the day, these kids that have moved on will most likely be wishing they hadn't, and the parents will probably be clueless on the mistakes made along the way.

[really?]

[quote="keepyourheadup"]Trust me this will be no average A team, Two returning players,one of which is likely to leave, 2 or three quality first years and the rest are a collection of players who either never made an A team or were third liners. They have at least 5 players who should have 911 on speed dial due to the likelyhood of injury because they are so far in over their heads. Great kids each, unfortunately that doesn't make them great hockey players.[/quote]

Hey - we don't have to agree. You put forth the statement and the question to begin with. You know it's "madness" (I think driven by ego) - life is full of both - and you wonder how to help your kid through it. It comes down to what you want your kid to get out of life. Once you know that, I think the answers are easy. Time to get on with it. Good luck.

[Hockey!LoveIt!]

Why is it such a "sin" to leave an association to try something different? Isn't is possible that these players will still have fun, develop their skills, make some new and lasting friendships and enjoy what may be a more structured environment?

[Miracle1980]

Its my understanding Lakeville has two Bantam A teams. I'm assuming these six kids are from their A1 team (1-15). The great thing about Minnesota hockey is there is always various levels of competition. If Lakeville struggles against the Burnsville's they can always travel south and play teams their still much better than. JMO

[really?]

[quote="Hockey!LoveIt!"]Why is it such a "sin" to leave an association to try something different? Isn't is possible that these players will still have fun, develop their skills, make some new and lasting friendships and enjoy what may be a more structured environment?[/quote]

I don't see it as a "sin" at all. In this situation, perhaps short-sighted for some and unrealistic for others - and I can't help but wonder if the kids really understand the possible ramifications of it all (?) but hey, it's their decision to make - Whatever... but, "after" tryouts and teams are made up?! I think that's wrong. Unfair to the team - unfair to the association...

[really?]

[quote="Miracle1980"]Its my understanding Lakeville has two Bantam A teams. I'm assuming these six kids are from their A1 team (1-15). The great thing about Minnesota hockey is there is always various levels of competition. If Lakeville struggles against the Burnsville's they can always travel south and play teams their still much better than. JMO[/quote]

No - North and South... both 1-15 respectfully. This is all about South.

[thinkb4engaging]

Question: Is it the Lakeville association which will not allow current St. Thomas students to play Bantam A hockey? Is a rumor or some fact to this statement?

[really?]

[quote="thinkb4engaging"]Question: Is it the Lakeville association which will not allow current St. Thomas students to play Bantam A hockey? Is a rumor or some fact to this statement?[/quote]

St. Thomas students are not restricted from playing Bantam hockey in Lakeville.

[thinkb4engaging]

Really?

To clarify- St. Thomas students are not restricted from playing BANTAM A hockey in Lakeville?

[Hockey!LoveIt!]

Why is it such a "sin" to leave an association to try something different? Isn't is possible that these players will still have fun, develop their skills, make some new and lasting friendships and enjoy what may be a more structured environment?

I don't see it as a "sin" at all. In this situation, perhaps short-sighted for some and unrealistic for others - and I can't help but wonder if the kids really understand the possible ramifications of it all (?) but hey, it's their decision to make - Whatever... but, "after" tryouts and teams are made up?! I think that's wrong. Unfair to the team - unfair to the association...

Are these kids leaving after tryouts? Association politics? By the way, what are these "ramifications"?

[really?]

[quote="thinkb4engaging"]Really?

To clarify- St. Thomas students are not restricted from playing BANTAM A hockey in Lakeville?[/quote]

Right - Not that I know of - I know they had a St. Thomas student on Bantam A last year.

[really?]

[quote="Hockey!LoveIt!"][quote="really?"][quote="Hockey!LoveIt!"]Why is it such a "sin" to leave an association to try something different? Isn't is possible that these players will still have fun, develop their skills, make some new and lasting friendships and enjoy what may be a more structured environment?[/quote]

I don't see it as a "sin" at all. In this situation, perhaps short-sighted for some and unrealistic for others - and I can't help but wonder if the kids really understand the possible ramifications of it all (?) but hey, it's their decision to make - Whatever... but, "after" tryouts and teams are made up?! I think that's wrong. Unfair to the team - unfair to the association...[/quote]

Are these kids leaving after tryouts? Association politics? By the way, what are these "ramifications"?[/quote]

"politics" = social interaction between people - It's always politics. So far - just one has left after tryouts - potential "ramifications"? I'm just guessing... angering/frustrating your friends, not making the team you thought you would, not being welcomed back with "open arms", not liking a very different type of school, etc. etc. - just my opinion...

[Hockey!LoveIt!]

I don't see it as a "sin" at all. In this situation, perhaps short-sighted for some and unrealistic for others - and I can't help but wonder if the kids really understand the possible ramifications of it all (?) but hey, it's their decision to make - Whatever... but, "after" tryouts and teams are made up?! I think that's wrong. Unfair to the team - unfair to the association...

Are these kids leaving after tryouts? Association politics? By the way, what are these "ramifications"?

"politics" = social interaction between people - It's always politics. So far - just one has left after tryouts - potential "ramifications"? I'm just guessing... angering/frustrating your friends, not making the team you thought you would, not being welcomed back with "open arms", not liking a very different type of school, etc. etc. - just my opinion...

Why would you not be welcomed back to your association? Obviously I am playing Devil's Advocate, but I just don't understand...A player does not have a contract with the association.

[southernfool]

With the new transfer rule players need to make decisions at Bantams rather than waiting for 10th grade. Usually when you see a mass exodus of players like this it has something to do with the coaching above at the high school level. Are parents and players not happy with the high school coach for some reason? I am not saying I agree with the moves but so many leaving at that age usually points to a desire to get away from the upper levels.

[really?]

[quote="southernfool"]With the new transfer rule players need to make decisions at Bantams rather than waiting for 10th grade. Usually when you see a mass exodus of players like this it has something to do with the coaching above at the high school level. Are parents and players not happy with the high school coach for some reason? I am not saying I agree with the moves but so many leaving at that age usually points to a desire to get away from the upper levels.[/quote]

I've heard nothing but good about the HS coach who took on the job when the school opened a couple of years ago. As to the reasons why they left? You'd have to ask them. We can only guess (and of course we do...). "Where best to showcase your kid", ???... I dunno - I'm sure the Vannelis know something about hockey - eh?... So do a lot of other people of course... whatever...

As to the other post re. why they might not be "welcomed" back?... Hey - like I said, it's just my opinion and I think the reasons are apparent - Play devil's advocate all ya want - but I don't see the point. This thread began with a guy who says he comprehends the "madness" of it all but looked for help in explaining it to his kid. (self-destructive ego is the answer I'd give him).

In the end - What's it all about? It's our job to help our kids understand that stuff. I believe that for his kid and all the rest - it could be the best season ever - just depends upon how you measure success, doesn't it?

[breakout]

I don't have personal knowledge of this situation, but have seen similar issues elsewhere.

This is what happens when parents step in and decide what's best for the players "future".. Most kids would be better players if they got back to doing what is fun, with less grown ups and structuring. Not that structure is a bad thing, but too much of a good thing is still too much. Today many programs are all structure.

Sorry to get off track on your thread. At the end of the day, these kids that have moved on will most likely be wishing they hadn't, and the parents will probably be clueless on the mistakes made along the way.

There's a great article on "Rink Sense" in the most recent addition of Let's Play Hockey.

All hockey parents should read it. Especially the overzealous lot that keeps surfacing.

FYI, two top 2007 NHL picks (1st rounders) from Minnesota played hockey with their buddies all the way through their senior year this past season. One played at Cretin and the other played at Grand Rapids. Ironically, neither played on the Machine or Fire.............imagine that!

[keepyourheadup]

A word of thanks for " REALLY?" Your very right in many ways, it does offer my son the chance to learn how to deal with some adversity and also to realize that we have no conrtol over decisions other people make. The tough part is when you've gotten use to winning so much its going to be a true challenge to help him stay positive with whats coming. I guess thats part of having kids in sports in the first place....it aint always fair and somebody has to win and somebody has got to lose. I appreciate your honesty...Thanks