Bridge collapse

[HShockeywatcher]

Your last point is what kills me move about the people that get up and talk, especially George W. In his speeches you will hear "the Republics failed to do this...which is why I can't do that..." Why can't you work together? Why does everyone have to make excuses for what they did wrong?

[Can't Never Tried]

Hmmm... we have a Budget surplus, and we have a failing infastructure...now TP now supports raising the gas tax....lets not forget that we turn down Federal monies because we'll be fine on our own right...?

Now a jump to throw 15 mil at debris removal?? I still think that's high... and how many people got a shot at that bid? What was it? 4 days to decide who's doing this at that cost???
I understand the urgency to get going and free those remains that are possibly still trapped...so don't get me wrong.

But it takes more then 4 days to figure out how much a project is going to cost at that magnitude!! someone is plugging #'s and I think this wreaks...it's the same as the contractors after the tornados.. let's get em when their vulnerable

I hope some news outlet follows this up.

[tomASS]

Govs93 - but my point is one of goverment's primary responsibility was, and has been, neglected for far too long by all parties involved. When the goverment ignores one of their primary reason for being in existence then they are trying to do too much that they shouldn't be. They need to get their priorities back on track

[HShockeywatcher]

Okay, a couple points need to be shown.
First, people keep talking about how we don't have so much money and it needs to be balanced, budgeted, whatever verb you want to use. This is true.
Second, for years we have had a huge national debt, in the trillions, nearly $9trillion at the moment. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ This being said, a national debt isn't a bad thing at all, but to the level our's is, we need to get rid of it.
Third, there are many things out there that we need that cost lots of money.

Take A, B and C together and what conclusion do you get? We need more money. Plain and simple. We need more money, and a lot of it.

How do we get the money? Taxes or bonds, primarily. I'd be fine raising the tobacco or alcohol taxes if the money was going to things that would help this. Heck, how bout start a fast food tax? Just a couple suggestions. Then bonds are self explanatory.

[Can't Never Tried]

BS limit spending on pork projects... and waste!!!
I don't know if you're old enough to pay taxes yet there HSW, but I pay a good amount already, and have for many years...financial responsibility..live within your means.... get it..MN has a surplus, why? because we're frigging over taxed already.
It's always easier to spend someone else's money..that's what governments do spend other peoples money...put the money to the things we want and need to keep us safe, and by God get what you pay for...don't waste it, we trust our elected officials to do that..but more times then not, they bow to special interest groups and lobbyist (you'd be good at that ) once they're in office...and we the people are let down again.
Do you know how long the subject of clearing the debris and replacing that bridge and it's cost's would be debated in session???
But 4 days $15 million contract that's what i'm talking about...waste !!! at the very least due diligence would be appreciated by the tax payer.



Feel free to correct my spelling and grammar Ms. Watcher

[tomASS]

Okay, a couple points need to be shown.
First, people keep talking about how we don't have so much money and it needs to be balanced, budgeted, whatever verb you want to use. This is true.
Second, for years we have had a huge national debt, in the trillions, nearly $9trillion at the moment. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ This being said, a national debt isn't a bad thing at all, but to the level our's is, we need to get rid of it.
Third, there are many things out there that we need that cost lots of money.

Take A, B and C together and what conclusion do you get? We need more money. Plain and simple. We need more money, and a lot of it.

How do we get the money? Taxes or bonds, primarily. I'd be fine raising the tobacco or alcohol taxes if the money was going to things that would help this. Heck, how bout start a fast food tax? Just a couple suggestions. Then bonds are self explanatory.

No No No - that was not my statement of intent. Can't never tried has it right. Stop the waste on pork projects or programs the government has no right being involved. Bigger federal goverment is not the answer.

Go back and see what the real federalist system of government was suppose to be like in regard to priorities.

don't even start thinking about taxing my BEER!

Tax and spend is the easy thing to do but not the right thing to do!
If I wanted that I could go find some relatives in Norway to live with.

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

I'm still going with the conspiracy theory.

And this $15 million only makes me wonder even more if I might be right.

[Knowlzee]

To USE a tragedy such as a bridge falling down to raise government revenue is disgusting.

I hope our Governor does not get sucked into this scam. There is plenty of money already taken by our governments,....just look at lines 63 on form 1040,....and line 28 on form M1. Do we get that much service from our governments? We don't get anywhere near that amount of government service,...and some polititions have the audacity to talk about taking more. To USE a tragedy for this,......is disgusting.

EVERYONE benefits from roads and bridges, which cannot be said for most programs our government spends money on (i.e the light rail novelty, to name one). Get it done.

[tomASS]

To USE a tragedy such as a bridge falling down to raise government revenue is disgusting.

I hope our Governor does not get sucked into this scam. There is plenty of money already taken by our governments,....just look at lines 63 on form 1040,....and line 28 on form M1. Do we get that much service from our governments? We don't get anywhere near that amount of government service,...and some polititions have the audacity to talk about taking more. To USE a tragedy for this,......is disgusting.

EVERYONE benefits from roads and bridges, which cannot be said for most programs our government spends money on (i.e the light rail novelty, to name one). Get it done.

Agreed! They (current politicians) have forgotten the basic principles of government and what their basic responisbilities to US are.

[Can't Never Tried]

Here check out our new laws for 2007 you will notice a veto in the transportation section
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hinfo/ ... 2007-0.asp

But the Help America Vote law passed and the piercing law ??

Waste and lots of it..



Oh yeah check out the Government section it's the biggest one of all

[tomASS]

On average in the US- 42 cents per gallon of gas goes to federal and state taxes. MN tax for a gallon is around 20 cents. I can assure you that money from this source is not always earmarked or allocated for what its intended purpose should be nor will any new tax be although it will be sold in such a manner.

[elliott70]

Fast food is taxed.
Beer is taxed.

[tomASS]

Fast food is taxed.
Beer is taxed.

my mis-statement - I meant don't tax my beer anymore than it is

[HShockeywatcher]

elliot, you're right, it is. I meant a special tax for it. Beer not the greatest, personally prefer the other two.

Just curious why it took my suggestion for people to point out the problem is where spending goes. CNT, I would never want to pay more taxes than I already do, but the idea was suggested that we only have so much and that certain things are getting left out. Under that premise, more money is needed. But you are probably most certainly right that the issue is certain projects, ie where the money goes.

[Can't Never Tried]

Couple interesting things on this...so they are about finshed with the clean up, Bolander says they have 50 people working 6 days a week 12 hr days so that's what roughly 22k hrs if we figure 6 weeks they figure 2 more weeks that will be around 29k hrs, divided out figuring that the average guy makes lets say $40/hr figuring in the OT that's about 1.2 mil rounded up.
So that said did the equipment, cost of operations, and disposal run us 13.8 mil ?
The contract was for 15 mil....not saying my math is perfect on this but even if I was way low on the labor seems like a lot....
Feel free to pick this apart if you have some other facts.

Then we have the emergency 55 mil that the feds gave us to get going, they are now saying most of that was eaten up by the initial rescue/ recovery.....55mil???? how?

Last point if it's a Fed. bridge why do we as a state have to pay anything..or is it just the upgrades we have to pay for.....? so knowing that they say 250mil from the feds, but we need to come up with another 195mil to cover what they say it's going to cost....now look at the 15 mil clean up cost, and now 195 additional state money IDK but I think someones getting rich here..

[Neutron 14]

Couple interesting things on this...so they are about finshed with the clean up, Bolander says they have 50 people working 6 days a week 12 hr days so that's what roughly 22k hrs if we figure 6 weeks they figure 2 more weeks that will be around 29k hrs, divided out figuring that the average guy makes lets say $40/hr figuring in the OT that's about 1.2 mil rounded up.
So that said did the equipment, cost of operations, and disposal run us 13.8 mil ?
The contract was for 15 mil....not saying my math is perfect on this but even if I was way low on the labor seems like a lot....
Feel free to pick this apart if you have some other facts.

Then we have the emergency 55 mil that the feds gave us to get going, they are now saying most of that was eaten up by the initial rescue/ recovery.....55mil???? how?

Last point if it's a Fed. bridge why do we as a state have to pay anything..or is it just the upgrades we have to pay for.....? so knowing that they say 250mil from the feds, but we need to come up with another 195mil to cover what they say it's going to cost....now look at the 15 mil clean up cost, and now 195 additional state money IDK but I think someones getting rich here..

Obviously the tax and spend liberals are at fault...

[BIAFP]

IDK but I think someones getting rich here..

Obviously the tax and spend liberals are at fault...[/quote]


We have a BINGO

[Govs93]

IDK but I think someones getting rich here..

Obviously the tax and spend liberals are at fault...

We have a BINGO [/quote]

Care to elaborate on this? Which liberal is spending this money?

Pawlenty & Molnau are running the state show, Bush and Rosenker running the Feds... where's the liberal again?

Blanket statements sure are easy and convenient, arent they?

[greybeard58]

When you talk about taxes on fuel you better include the Fed excise tax on a new trailer is 12% and the license fee for the semi and heavy trucks is a lot more than you would think(even higher if you leave the state) and even the IRS gets their share if a truck is licensed for 80,000 lbs the fee is over $500 and if your truck is licensed to haul over 55,000 is $244.00 and we certainly can not forget about the sales tax collected when the trucks are purchased.
You also need to take into consideration that this is not the usual demo project, first you had to remove the debris to be careful and try and recover the victims, then you had to slowly remove so the inspectors could take pictures and try and find the cause. The real scary part is there are a lot more bridges worse off than this one was rated.

[BIAFP]

IDK but I think someones getting rich here..

Obviously the tax and spend liberals are at fault...

We have a BINGO [/quote]

Care to elaborate on this? Which liberal is spending this money?

Pawlenty & Molnau are running the state show, Bush and Rosenker running the Feds... where's the liberal again?



Blanket statements sure are easy and convenient, arent they?[/quote]



Liberal controlled House and Senate at State and Federal levels with a couple of billion dollars of PORK tacked on to their bridge bills are true to form

[Neutron 14]

Care to elaborate on this? Which liberal is spending this money?

Pawlenty & Molnau are running the state show, Bush and Rosenker running the Feds... where's the liberal again?

Blanket statements sure are easy and convenient, arent they?

Tounge in cheek Govs, tounge in cheek. I went fishing and caught BIAFP to nobodys surprise. Hes just a little one so I threw him back.

It seems that no matter the issue today, politicians aren't looking so much for answers as they are at affixing blame. Both sides are guilty. Its pathetic. Finger pointing will be going on with this bridge up until the day the new one opens, at which time they'll all race to the ribbon cutting for the photo op.

[Can't Never Tried]

Hes just a little one so I threw him back.

Speaking of photo ops..........
I thought you threw him back??

[BIAFP]

Hes just a little one so I threw him back.

Speaking of photo ops..........
I thought you threw him back??

Polly want a cracker?

[Can't Never Tried]

Polly want a cracker?

Sure! they go good with guppys

[BIAFP]

Polly want a cracker?

Sure! they go good with guppys

OK PeeWee