Lakeville Hockey

[goldy313]

MN Hockey is having a special meeting to discuss Lakevilles desire to move to District 6 on Oct. 1st.

[elliott70]

I know a guy that was at a state meeitng and Hal Terse was asked about this and he said that it probably will not happen. I think the state meeting is going on right now. The state guys rarely will override decisions made the individual district directors just like district directors will rarely override things like player waivers signed by local association presidents. I guess we'll know by Monday.

Lakeville's youth program had a lot of stones to play two A teams as North and South. I know they lost a lot of bantams to STAbecause they wouldn't have one super team. STA keeps trying to sneak into D8 every year with a bantam team and it always gets rejected. They try going to other districts and are turned down since their natural geographic boundary is D8. I guess that WSP gets raided pretty deep by STA.

Hal Tearse was NOT at the state meeting.

A special meeting has been called for this issue and one other.

From the board members with whom I have discussed this issue; no one (other than those directly involved from the beginning) has reached a conclusion as to how they will vote on this issue. Pros and cons ares till being discussed - all issues involved are trying to be put on the table, prioritized & weighted by each board member. Each board member obviously has their own bias and methodology.

But ALL board members realize the greater issue here of trying to place local associations into the proper groupings. If nothing else, hopefully, this vote has brought to the forefront the Board's (and District Directors) need to put aside our provincialism and do what must be done - proper redistricting by geographical and balance of power issues.

This may mean eliminating or expanding the number of districts; co0nbining or eliminating districts; or any other measures to assure we are providing what is needed by each and all associations to the extent we can.

[Rocket78]

Elliot70, I said that Hal Tearse was at "a state meeting" The meeting was for the district coach coordinators and as MN Hockey's head coach he was there. You might also note that I wrote that on the 14th and the MNHockey fall meeting was just getting started that weekend.

Many of the districts in Minnesota are much larger geographically than either D6 or D8 so the normal travel time is going to be over an hour so I can't see a lot of sympathy among the outstate directors. In D8 it has to be tough to play a weeknight game in LaCrescent if you are from Cottage Grove. The simple solution would be to play on weekends and hit Winona on your drive home but rink schedules and logistics make that difficult to arrange.

I don't think I would like to be a District Director right now. The only way to "solve" the problem of realignment is to go to 8 sections and keep/change alignments to follow MSHSL. That way you can always blame them when local associations whine.

[elliott70]

Elliot70, I said that Hal Tearse was at "a state meeting" The meeting was for the district coach coordinators and as MN Hockey's head coach he was there. You might also note that I wrote that on the 14th and the MNHockey fall meeting was just getting started that weekend.

SORRY, did not mean to imply anything about you or your source.
But others reading may have thought Hal was at the meeting.
And no one from MN Hockey should express an opinion until the facts/request are presented.
We need to ask questions, debate and come to our own conclusions before we make a decision on how we should vote individually.

But again, sorry for possibly misreading your post.

Many of the districts in Minnesota are much larger geographically than either D6 or D8 so the normal travel time is going to be over an hour so I can't see a lot of sympathy among the outstate directors. In D8 it has to be tough to play a weeknight game in LaCrescent if you are from Cottage Grove. The simple solution would be to play on weekends and hit Winona on your drive home but rink schedules and logistics make that difficult to arrange.

D16 (my home) averages about 175 to 200 miles round trip for each A level game. But it is not a question of sympthy but can we amke things better for some. We need to consider that in making our decisions.
And scheduling long trips on a week night is not the right thing to do. Most D16 games are on Friday night, Saturday or Sunday.

I don't think I would like to be a District Director right now. The only way to "solve" the problem of realignment is to go to 8 sections and keep/change alignments to follow MSHSL. That way you can always blame them when local associations whine.

I am not sure if following the MSHSL sections is the only solution or if it is a solution.
I do know the directors and other board members need to keep an open mind and try to be creative.

[Rocket78]

elliott, yeah I can see how my post could be interpreted. Mea culpa.

I'm assuming that you're a Director. I'm kind of surprised that you post on this site although it is probably a great read for you to get a feel for the pulse around the state. An old friend of mine who is a HS AD used this site to track me down and got his hands slapped by his superiors. Apparently not accepted practice.

[elliott70]

elliott, yeah I can see how my post could be interpreted. Mea culpa.

I'm assuming that you're a Director. I'm kind of surprised that you post on this site although it is probably a great read for you to get a feel for the pulse around the state. An old friend of mine who is a HS AD used this site to track me down and got his hands slapped by his superiors. Apparently not accepted practice.

This is an exellent site if used properly.

And yes I am a District Director, Mark Elliott, D16, from Bemidji.
I have been open about who I am since posting here, so I am accountable.
Others can be open about their opinions without worry of reprisal. And I believe most people are honest when addressing things to me.

The world works better if we share ideas, opinions, information.

And no one (other than Lee or Mitch) can force me off this site (maybe my wife ).

And yes, the information (sifting through the bravado) is great.

[Can't Never Tried]

I think it's great that you relay and share the information elliott....does it peeve the other MN Hockey folks that you do this? Getting to popular

I think that a lot of people that want to get their opinions to the powers, but don't have the courage to go and do it personally are very lucky that you will be their voice. (To some extent)
Keep up the good work many appreciate it.

[Slapshotdude]

A Special Board Meeting of the Minnesota Hockey Board of Directors via teleconference has been scheduled in accordance with Minnesota Hockey By-laws, Article 9 - Special Meetings.

The teleconference meeting is scheduled to begin Monday, October 1 beginning at 7:00 PM.

Any Minnesota Hockey member wishing to dial into the telecongference MUST notify the Executive Director (markj@minnesotahockey.org) no later than noon on October 1st to be provided with access codes to the teleconference.

In addition, there will be a physical meeting location available for those who wish to attend. This klocation is at the "Board Room," 317 Washington Street, St. Paul, MN. Any Minnesota Hockey member wishing to attend the physical location MUST notify the Executive Director (markj@minnesotahockey.org) no later than noon on October 1st in order to arrange entry through building security at the physical location.


Agenda items are:

A. Consider a donation request to New Directions Youth Ministry.
B. Consider assigning Lakeville Hockey Association to District 6.


Any questions regarding the meeting should be directed to Phil Graber, Secretary/Treasurer of Minnesota Hockey.

[Slapshotdude]

Lakeville has the largest number of players in D8. Lakeville has the largest number of teams in D8. D8 brass gets paid $ by the numbers for organizing the district. They get money for each individual player signed up, each game scheduled and each game reffed. I'm sure there are even more ways they get paid. It is a simple money game. D8 brass does not want Lakeville to leave because it will be a huge loss of revenue from their paychecks. Simple explanation, but so very true. I even heard the D8 Director brag this very point some years ago.

[Rocket78]

Slapshotdude,

I doubt very much that you heard Mr Rakness bragging about this! He is a pretty humble guy. I have stood in front of him on more than one occasion with players that received match penalties and he and his board are fairminded individuals. They were always thinking about the long term outcome of my player even if they were going to suspend the kid.

The D8 board members get about $100 per season. I think that amounts to about $0.29 per hour. Most of them do the organizing and then attend many games per year to observe. When its playoff time we go to one game to watch our kid but they end up traveling the circuit to take in games every night.

District 8 is the association that push redistricting because of their size not to make it bigger! They wanted to lop off the southern part and combine it with the east side of D4 to make a new district. This would have eliminated Dodge Couty, Winona, Redwing, LaCrescent, Northfield and Rochester (~1000 players by itself). That far outwieghs the number of skaters in Lakeville. Lakeville, like Rochester, is primarily concerned about getting the best situation for their teams with little to no regard for the rest of the associations.

Everyone should stop knocking the district Directors and their boards. Most of them should be retired and watching their grandkids but they choose to continue their involvement for the love of the game. We should be thanking them rather than criticizing them. They are much like referees, you can't have a game without them but want every decision to be made in our favor.

[Slapshotdude]

Well since this is a forum and you really can't beleave much that is said hear, I will not even try to prove the facts to you. I did not mention any names and I will not blame anyone for the way things are run or their motives. The truth is most in charge are paid by the numbers . Ask any local or district ref and they will tell you that they get paid money for scheduling each game. Ask any director and he will confirm they get paid partially by the number of players he is responcible for. Question, If an association has been begging to live their district for 10+ years running and have been denide by their district every year they asked. Who has the best interest in mind?

[Rocket78]

When you speak of money leaving your associations you should look at the path it takes. Each player and coach has a chunk of change from their registration fee going to USAHockey and Minnesota Hockey ($30 total?). This money pays for the NTDP, salaries in Colorado, publications for CEP and referee materials, rulebooks, websites, computers etc. The money that goes to the individual districts is based on the number of teams entered by associations into the leagues. The referee schedulers are paid ($5 per game?). In D8 most of the non-metro associations schedule their own refs and don't use the D8 ref scheduler. The biggest $$ an association might shell out can come from game rescheduling and it's interesting what a scheduling disaster Lakeville had a couple of years ago. I think 50% of the D8 reschedules that season was due to a major screw-up in Lakeville. I know some of the reps for various associations and also read the meeting minutes and there is no mention of Lakeville seeking a release until they didn't get the D8/D4 division they wanted. Shakopee and Prior Lake left the district a few years ago but it made sense for them to either be in D6 or D5 since they were isolated on the west side. The other interesting thing is that STA keeps trying to enter D8 with bantam teams. The association reps, including Lakeville, have voted 100% against them at least twice. Lakeville lost a lot of players to STA the year that they split into and A team for both North and South.

I am not anti-Lakeville and in fact the are one of my favorite teams to play along with Hastings. If you win the game you know that you had to earn it. There are never easy victories again either program.

[Slapshotdude]

Sounds like you have been around as long as I. Remember the old bubbles in Shakopee and IGH. Leaky sacks of cold ice with dirt bike jump tracks for parking lots. We used to get up at 5:00am and pay premium for those so-called rinks. Almost made you start drinking in the morning. None of the Associations are flawless and the bigger ones seem to make bigger mistakes. I could tell you allot of BS about Lakeville but I prefer to remember the good stuff. Besides, those that volunteer at that level get paid NOTHING. The district guys are all paid something. Not much but something. You jogged my memory and I believe it was 1995 when everyone in Lakeville was talking about moving to D6. The Lakeville president "RD" was not keen on the idea but the wheels were set in motion. D8's high ruler and most exhaulted put the big "reject" on it that year and every year since. D6 did not always want us to move in either. You see, Lakeville had to first get D6 to let them in. Then and only then could they go to D8 and ask to get out. Either way it is a messy process and makes Lakeville look selfish to everyone else no matter how good their intentions. Nuf Said.

[freighttrain]

hey man the IGH bubble ruled. I miss the thing.

[Slapshotdude]

I get the IGH and Shakopee mixed up in my memory but one had uneven floors that you tripped on walking through. One had a water leak right above the far goal net. When it rained pucks would stick on the ice before they went into the net. Made many goalies look real good. The ice was so many different shades of gray as you skated up the rink you lost view if the puck on your stick sometimes. The boards were as bent up as Shattuck’s old rink. Pucks would bounce in very strange directions. One of them had a rotary doorway. Getting large hockey bags in was sometimes impossible and the bathrooms were as bad as an old out house. Brings a tear to my eye just thinking about them.

[elliott70]

Well since this is a forum and you really can't beleave much that is said hear, I will not even try to prove the facts to you. I did not mention any names and I will not blame anyone for the way things are run or their motives. The truth is most in charge are paid by the numbers . Ask any local or district ref and they will tell you that they get paid money for scheduling each game. Ask any director and he will confirm they get paid partially by the number of players he is responcible for. Question, If an association has been begging to live their district for 10+ years running and have been denide by their district every year they asked. Who has the best interest in mind?

As DD16, I get most of my expenses reimbursed. Not all but most. I am paid exactly zero for my time. If I have 50 team and 1000 players or 100 teams and 200 players I get exactly the same amount of money - zero.
Refs are done differently from district to district and in the out-state different from association to association.
USA Hockey pays their associate registrars so much per player. But based on turn-over and the people that I know that do this, the $ only helps mitigate the time/troubles etc.
No one in MN Hockey is making a ton of money, if any at all. The ones that are doing this love the kids and the game or are just a little goofy .

[Neutron 14]

The ones that are doing this love the kids and the game or are just a little goofy .

And which one are you?

Sorry Mark, just had to....

[gopher1]

Elliott, Why hasn't Rich Rackness from D8 allowed Lakeville move on to D6? This has been an on going saga for 10yrs. There must be a lot of money involved or as you say, "district directors" don't receive any money? That's really hard to believe!! Lakeville should be moved into D6 and that would help align with the Lake Conf. All of the DD's should fess up if your recieving any sort of money for having money sent your direction.

[elliott70]

Elliott, Why hasn't Rich Rackness from D8 allowed Lakeville move on to D6? This has been an on going saga for 10yrs. There must be a lot of money involved or as you say, "district directors" don't receive any money? That's really hard to believe!! Lakeville should be moved into D6 and that would help align with the Lake Conf. All of the DD's should fess up if your recieving any sort of money for having money sent your direction.

The district board voted it down. Rakness did not overrule them.
They went to the VP of Gold who said it si beyond his power and sent them to the MN Hockey board.

The board will act on October 1.
Rakness is not making money as DD from the Lakeville Assn.
Nor are any DD's, believe what you want, but do not spread unfounded, scadoulous rumors about me or others that put in a lot of time, energy and in some cases their own money for the betterment of a sport and kids.

[elliott70]

The ones that are doing this love the kids and the game or are just a little goofy .

And which one are you?

Sorry Mark, just had to....

Neut....
Some say I am a saint, some say I am goofy.

Some say somethings that cannot be printed,
some like me, some don't.
But that's life.
I just do my best and hope I am helping.

But remember to . Life is too short not to enjoy it as much as you can.

[gopher1]

Why is the District Board afraid of letting Lakeville go to D6? If Lakeville has been asking for years, why not let them go? How come the District Board for D8 hasn't changed in many years? It seems to be the "good ol' boy" system for D8. Only my opinion, there should be representive from each association who helps in changes or requests to leave the districts or other matters. NOT!! just the members that have been there for 10+ years making the decisions.

[Slapshotdude]

Elliott, I stand corrected that not all are paid. I too have volunteered for a high up Association level job. I was not paid and would not have accepted any. I also have refereed games in many sports. The pay is OK. The exercise is the main benefit. I have coached and they were the best times I ever had. Working directly with the kids is the most gratifying of all volunteer work. To me the kids are what it is all about. Coaches, 1 in 3 are fit for the job. Parents, you can have them. Directors a times loose sight of reality because they believe "I know what’s best for all". Well as far as Lakeville is concerned, they have outgrown their current district and need to move up and on.

[whockeyguy]

gopher one , maybe the board is looking out for the best interest of the district, if they allow one to go, whos next, still sounds like the back door route to me, cant believe if mn hockey allows this why anybody would want to stay on the district board if this is allowed , they have said NO, and now might be overridden, well if I was them i would tell Mn Hockey to come on down here and run this thing, because anything they do now is subject to an override by Mn Hockey, and it doenst mattter what it is, precedence has been established if this is allowed. Elliot what is the exact purpose of a district board, and why does Mn Hockey think they need to intervene

[Rocket78]

I spoke with 3 members of the D8 board and asked them how long Lakeville has pushed to move into D6. I don't know for sure what the board members service time is but one is at least 5 years and one has been there for 3 years at least. They told me that Lakeville had not requested to move out of D8 until now (during their tenure). Interesting too, when STA first made a proposal to join D8 it was Lakeville that was at the front of the movement to stop them. The vote was unanimous against allowing STA to join (since they get their players from Lakeville and WSP). This summer STA wanted a bantam B team "for kids that would otherwise quit hockey". WSP and IGH were the strongest opponents on that one. It really looks like Lakeville doesn't like their assigned D4/D8 division. I suspect that with 37 different association involved (17 - D4, 16 - D8 and 4 guest associations) not everyone will be happy.

I also asked about how long various members have been with the board.

Sq VP about 6 years
Pw VP < 1 year
Bt VP about 6 years
Jrg Vp about 3 years
Girls VP about 5 years
Tourney about 2 years
ACE about 3 years
Head Coach about 3 years
secretary about 2 years
referees long time
president long time
director long time

It looks like a fair amount of turnover so there is at most 3 directors that are "good old boys that have been their for 10+ years". How does somebody get elected to district board? Has anybody out in forum land tried to become a board member? There is an open position as SKATE coordinator.


I just looked at which District 8 bantam A, bantam B, peewee A and peewee B teams advance to the regionals last March. Lakeville South and Rochester each had three teams, Eagan had two teams and Lakeville North had one team. If you stretch this out to the state tourney Rochester advanced three teams and Lakeville South advanced two. Hmm, should they all go to District 6 because they have outgrown the rest of the district? Maybe if you make it to Regions you get to pick your district?

[Slapshotdude]

A few years back Lakeville had a lot of Peewee players and wanted a B2 division made. D8 did not have B2's and Lakeville had to send them to D6. Recently Lakeville has combined with D6 at some levels because D8 does not have enough participation. D4 has no C level teams and this merger with D8-D4 does not help the C levels out at all besides the fact that D4 is even less of challenge at most levels. I know D4 people will get upset about this statement but for the most part it is true. Now and then and good group of players combine to make a very good D4 team but this is the exception, not the norm. Lakeville is well respected in D8 for consistently putting quality teams on the ice. With over 950 players last year Lakeville needs to play teams closer to them in a District that offers levels and teams that coincide with their own needs and most of all they want to play more towns that belong to the Lake Conference. Currently Eagan is the only one. Associations have moved around in the past and this did not trigger any huge problems back then and will not now. Everyone needs to get grip on their opinions and respect other association’s needs. This move is best for the kids in Lakeville. And most of all it does not hurt anyone else except the D8 directors pocket book and pride.