Strike at the U

[ChrisK]

Just pulling this out of the Twins thread, at this point it looks like the University of Minnesota AFSCME employees will be going out on strike on Wednesday. As an AFSCME worker at the U it's not something we want to do, but unless we get a better offer we have to make a stand.

[tomASS]

Just pulling this out of the Twins thread, at this point it looks like the University of Minnesota AFSCME employees will be going out on strike on Wednesday. As an AFSCME worker at the U it's not something we want to do, but unless we get a better offer we have to make a stand.

Be careful if Northwest didn't need mechanics with over 25 years of experience helping keep the big birds in the air, don't believe that your job is indispensable

[elliott70]

Just pulling this out of the Twins thread, at this point it looks like the University of Minnesota AFSCME employees will be going out on strike on Wednesday. As an AFSCME worker at the U it's not something we want to do, but unless we get a better offer we have to make a stand.

Chris
I hope it goes well and quickly.

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Sometimes you gotta take a stand, even if it isn't for yourself.

"You can have everything in life you want if you'll just help enough other people to get what they want!" -- Zig Ziglar

The Empire is behind ya ChrisK!

[east hockey]

Just pulling this out of the Twins thread, at this point it looks like the University of Minnesota AFSCME employees will be going out on strike on Wednesday. As an AFSCME worker at the U it's not something we want to do, but unless we get a better offer we have to make a stand.

Good luck to you on this, Chris. Hopefully the "other side" will wake up and the worst case scenario won't happen.

I don't know what the public perception of AFSCME is down there in the Cities, but up here in Duluth they've taken a bit of a beating in the court of public opinion lately. Mostly this is a result of the City of Duluth's crisis regarding their unfunded health care liability. Long story short, retirees have free medical for life. It was negotiated into their contract back in the early 80's, I believe. Back then nobody had an inkling of how large a liability that would turn out to be 20-30 years in the future. The current liability the City faces is around $300 million. So, some are attempting to lay the blame for this on City employees.

I don't know what the history of wage increases has been for you guys and for City of Duluth employees, but in the primary St. Louis County bargaining units, the position has been to maintain health care benefits in exchange for reasonable pay increases. As a result, County employees have settled for mainly 1-3% wage increases each year. And now in the past ten years, the County Board has chipped away at medical benefits with a series of increased drug co-pays along with higher medical deductibles. That 1-3% annual increase didn't match inflation not taking into account medical cost increases. With those costs added in, employees have been steadily losing ground. Yet the public is led to believe (or simply is ignorant enough to believe) that public employees are living the good life in their "mansions".

One thing is for sure; no matter how strong the AFSCME union's position is, public support will never be with them. We've come close to striking on a couple occasions in our county, and the union strike team emphasized to us that we'd have little or no support from the general public.

But, as you said, eventually a stand has to be made. Not so much for the current situation but for the sake of future negotiations. So long as the employer thinks you'll never strike, they have no incentive to bargain in good faith.

Lee

[BIAFP]

Chris........ I hope this works out for you quickly. I personally don't think that there is a place for unions in todays society. The union only protects those that don't want to work at the expense of the others. If someone doesn't like their job, pay, or benefits they should go find other employment. Unions have priced american businesses out of business by the contracts they have shoved down the companies throats. Contracts containing things like Lifetime Health Benefits have no place in this country. The days of "entitlement" should be long gone..........are you listening Hillary?




Ignore HuSkyweightwatcher

[Neutron 14]

I don't know what the history of wage increases has been for you guys and for City of Duluth employees, but in the primary St. Louis County bargaining units, the position has been to maintain health care benefits in exchange for reasonable pay increases. As a result, County employees have settled for mainly 1-3% wage increases each year. And now in the past ten years, the County Board has chipped away at medical benefits with a series of increased drug co-pays along with higher medical deductibles. That 1-3% annual increase didn't match inflation not taking into account medical cost increases. With those costs added in, employees have been steadily losing ground.

Those numbers are not unique to union wage increases. Exempt employees are averaging the same. So when we talk about a "fair contract", what are you comparing it too? Health care increases have hit everyone.

Wages are not immune to a market economy, whether a union or company man. We are not "entitled" to any raise. If a union has the power to "move or set the market", good for them.

Chris........ I hope this works out for you quickly. I personally don't think that there is a place for unions in todays society. The union only protects those that don't want to work at the expense of the others. If someone doesn't like their job, pay, or benefits they should go find other employment. Unions have priced american businesses out of business by the contracts they have shoved down the companies throats. Contracts containing things like Lifetime Health Benefits have no place in this country. The days of "entitlement" should be long gone..........are you listening Hillary?

Unions aren't perfect, but there is a need for them. I think without them there wouldn't be a middle class. My biggest problem with unions is my inability to compensate the high end performers. The result is all performance becomes mediocre. We need to be better than that.

Good luck Chris.

[packerboy]

Bunch of Commie , Pinko, ultra liberals.

If you dont like what they are paying you, go get a job that pays better somewhere else.

I thought I should post that on Labor Day.

[Govs93]

Chris........ I hope this works out for you quickly. I personally don't think that there is a place for unions in todays society. The union only protects those that don't want to work at the expense of the others. If someone doesn't like their job, pay, or benefits they should go find other employment. Unions have priced american businesses out of business by the contracts they have shoved down the companies throats. Contracts containing things like Lifetime Health Benefits have no place in this country. The days of "entitlement" should be long gone.

Absolutley ridculous... and I'm in management in a bargained environment.

If it's too much to ask that companies provide fair essentials for employees who provide for for them and their shareholders (in some cases), then CEOs all over this country need to reassess the reasons they're in business. If companies are being "priced out of business" by providing fair essentials, then adios.

There are unions that have gone over the edge from time to time, and exploited positions in attempts to actually blatnently damage companies, but instances like those are few and far between, and there are many, MANY more instances in which it's been the other way around, which is why unions always have been, and will continue to be neecessary in this country - to keep companies in check. If not them, who? Self regulation? Government regulators? Funny stuff.

[east hockey]

Chris........ I hope this works out for you quickly. I personally don't think that there is a place for unions in todays society. The union only protects those that don't want to work at the expense of the others. If someone doesn't like their job, pay, or benefits they should go find other employment. Unions have priced american businesses out of business by the contracts they have shoved down the companies throats. Contracts containing things like Lifetime Health Benefits have no place in this country. The days of "entitlement" should be long gone.

Absolutley ridculous... and I'm in management in a bargained environment.

If it's too much to ask that companies provide fair essentials for employees who provide for for them and their shareholders (in some cases), then CEOs all over this country need to reassess the reasons they're in business. If companies are being "priced out of business" by providing fair essentials, then adios.

There are unions that have gone over the edge from time to time, and exploited positions in attempts to actually blatnently damage companies, but instances like those are few and far between, and there are many, MANY more instances in which it's been the other way around, which is why unions always have been, and will continue to be neecessary in this country - to keep companies in check. If not them, who? Self regulation? Government regulators? Funny stuff.

Sounds about right to me.

Those who argue against unions should read up on some history of unions, and what conditions were like prior to their inception. Brutal conditions. No safety or security. Meanwhile, management and owners of companies got fat. Of course, that second part still holds true today. Management still pulls down obscene compensations, compared to those they employ.

The problem as it pertains to governement employees isn't unions. It's Civil Service. As that system works here in St Louis County (and in many other governmental units) is that there is little incentive to excel. If you do the minimum required, you get your step/longevity increases. You also qualify to test for certain promotional positions. But the "little incentive to excel" is particularly harmful, and I see examples of it every day.

In the movie Office Space, Ron Livingston's character, in his first meeting with the two Bob's, hit the nail on the head:

That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

Those people must have researched my place of employment before scripting that flick.

Lee

[BIAFP]

Sounds about right to me.

Those who argue against unions should read up on some history of unions, and what conditions were like prior to their inception. Brutal conditions. No safety or security. Meanwhile, management and owners of companies got fat. Of course, that second part still holds true today. Management still pulls down obscene compensations, compared to those they employ.



Lee[/quote]



History is just that.............History.
It is one thing to understand the past and another to live in it.
That was then, this is now! End entitlement!


"Your attitude, almost always determines your altitude in life."


Ignore HuSkyweightwatcher

[packerboy]

Some woman representing the union was on TV last night and her comments were basically, " wait until Wednesday when the students show up and there is nobody to help them in the library, see how they like that"

I am sure that will garner a lot of support form the public since there are about 20,000 Minnesota families with kids at the U.

People from the Kerry campaign must be in charge.

[Govs93]

Some woman representing the union was on TV last night and her comments were basically, " wait until Wednesday when the students show up and there is nobody to help them in the library, see how they like that"

I am sure that will garner a lot of support form the public since there are about 20,000 Minnesota families with kids at the U.

I saw that too... not the best P.R. - I have to agree.

[Knowlzee]

ChrisK, personally, I wish you the best. It is unfortunate that you are in a situation where you cannot meet with your employer and personally negotiate,....to discuss with them what you will do for them, and what they are able to compensate you in return for your service,....like adults.

What is "good" about a strike? What is "good" about a large group of workers, not doing the work that is needed to be completed. Is that productive? What is positive about that?

What is "good" about all workers receiving the same compensation? Shouldn't the more valuable, more productive, and better employees get more compensation? Why should the least valuable, least productive, and least responsible employee get paid the same as the most valuable? What is "good" about that? Does that give any workers incentive to improve or work hard?

What is "good" about pitting workers against administation and management? Is that productive? Does it make for a cooperative working environment? Does it give incentive for workers to produce, or incentive to management to be a flexible at times, or possibly give a bonus or reward for good performance?

If we aren't pleased with the working conditions, or compensation of our job,.....wouldn't it be better to find another job,.....rather than waste time fighting about it? If the fight is won, are the conditions really improved all that much? It seems as though, with unions, there is just usually another fight in the future. Frankly, it seems as though unions are continually involved with fighting.

Why is it that pretty much every industry of which unions were or are involved,......has either failed (i.e., iron mining), or is in financial trouble (i.e., airlines and autos)? What is "good" about that?

Government is soon to be the only place a union will be able to exist,.....primarily because with government, productivity and efficiency do not matter. When the budget is exceeded,......they simply just take more in fines, fees and taxes. What is "good" about that?

[Can't Never Tried]

Well I am not union nor have I ever been, My wife, and brother are union and always have been.
Your union will only be as good as the negotiators you have representing you in talks, and at work as only as good as your fellow union rep.

As for strike talks.. that is the only time I have ever seen committed union reps. involvement..My wife has had several issues in which she needed the support of her union and it was hopeless they were spineless to confront the employer with the issues...and more times then not they side with the employer as is my brothers case, because the employers give special treatment to the employee union reps.

The concept of union is OK, but IMO opinion you end up on your own anyway....you just have to pay dues

Chris how long has the current union delegation been seated?
Hopefully there will be many people to voice there concerns to the reps. that they get what you want...if not vote them out and get new blood.
That's the other part not many people I know of want to take on the extra duties of union rep.

[Govs93]

Did I hear that the U workers aren't getting any strike pay from AFSCME? That's unusual isn't it?

[hockeygod]

There is no place for public employees to be in a union, they are public employees, they have the best healthcare and pension benifits available, they make more per hour than the average worker who pays there wages. they have far better working conditions than most people. If they were all to be fired today there would be 10,000 people applying for their jobs within weeks and these clowns out there striking would be lining up looking for jobs and I bet the free market would not treat them as kindly as the government has.....lets send them down the same road as the air traffic controllers and replace them

[tomASS]

There is no place for public employees to be in a union, they are public employees, they have the best healthcare and pension benifits available, they make more per hour than the average worker who pays there wages. they have far better working conditions than most people. If they were all to be fired today there would be 10,000 people applying for their jobs within weeks and these clowns out there striking would be lining up looking for jobs and I bet the free market would not treat them as kindly as the government has.....lets send them down the same road as the air traffic controllers and replace them

[ChrisK]

There is no place for public employees to be in a union, they are public employees, they have the best healthcare and pension benifits available, they make more per hour than the average worker who pays there wages. they have far better working conditions than most people. If they were all to be fired today there would be 10,000 people applying for their jobs within weeks and these clowns out there striking would be lining up looking for jobs and I bet the free market would not treat them as kindly as the government has.....lets send them down the same road as the air traffic controllers and replace them

As one of the 'clowns' I take extreme offense to your comments.

You obviously don't work at the University. Do you really think an average annual salary $34,000 is overpaid?

The benefits tend to be better in the public sector but the pay is usually better in the private sector.

And no, we don't get any strike pay. We don't have a strike fund because
it would add more to the union dues than most employees could afford. AFSCME is not like the trade unions where you have to join to work.

Which should tell you something: how bad are things when people will go several weeks without pay rather than take what the University is offering them?

Back to the picket line and putting in some hours at my second job.

[elliott70]

There is no place for public employees to be in a union, they are public employees, they have the best healthcare and pension benifits available, they make more per hour than the average worker who pays there wages. they have far better working conditions than most people. If they were all to be fired today there would be 10,000 people applying for their jobs within weeks and these clowns out there striking would be lining up looking for jobs and I bet the free market would not treat them as kindly as the government has.....lets send them down the same road as the air traffic controllers and replace them

As one of the 'clowns' I take extreme offense to your comments.

You obviously don't work at the University. Do you really think an average annual salary $34,000 is overpaid?

The benefits tend to be better in the public sector but the pay is usually better in the private sector.

And no, we don't get any strike pay. We don't have a strike fund because
it would add more to the union dues than most employees could afford. AFSCME is not like the trade unions where you have to join to work.

Which should tell you something: how bad are things when people will go several weeks without pay rather than take what the University is offering them?

Back to the picket line and putting in some hours at my second job.

Chris
I do not know all the demands or the offers, but I support YOU.

I have been in several different unions and, for the most part, have been represented well in situations that I, alone, would not have had anything but a small pay check. Coming from a union town I know how strong and overbearing unions can be. But at the same time I benefitted directly as a child from what organizaztion and standing together can do.

Unions have their place.

As for history, it does repeat itself. The pendulum does swing.

And being in a mostly non-union town now, I see how some are not treated very well.

Not all of us will be CEOs and not all of us will lean on the shovel while the others do the work. Most of us are in between, trying our best to do our jobs and make a living and be happy.

Business, labor, government, non-profits etc. all have a place in our economy (world). We need the proper balance. But that balance is not static. It changes as we as a people change. At times it will appear that one or the other is not needed, too powerful, or even evil.

But some of us have gone to far on this thread. Offending someone with our opinion is our right. Offending them witthout knowledge of what they do is cruel and stupid.

I do not mean to call people stupid but acting (writing) without proper knowledge or disclaimer is stupid and stupid can cause pain.

Apologies are not necessary, but remember to carry a mirror with you.



May things work out for you and your co-workers, Chris.

[ChrisK]

Thanks Elliot. And thanks to the rest of you who have offered support, I do appreciate it. It's not an easy thing to go out on strike.

I know unions aren't perfect but I do believe in this case we have legitimate issues with our employer.

[hockeygod]

hey Chris I do think that an average salary of $34,000 is overpaid for what the striking university workers do (how much money do generate for the U). Wasn't it wcco's I team that taped U workers sleeping on the job a couple years back. lets face it Chris, you have a very easy job, you were too shortsighted to pay for a strike fund, and your trying to pressure the U into giving you more money than you are worth to them. As for not working for the U, yeah, I guess I became an adult after college and went on to have a productive life away from the public sector. I think the strikers better start digging in for a long strike too, because for the most part your absence from work has been barely noticed. That should tell you the real value of the work you performed.

[packerboy]

Thats a little harsh.

But it is what you hear when public employees go on strike. The usual comments are:

1. They dont have to work as hard

2. No pressure for profit so minimal accountability

3. Unions and bureaucratic red tape results in no firings so there are no consequences for poor performance.

4. Poor attitudes such as " I aint workin hard when they pay me this" abounds.

5. If you dont like the pay, get a "real job" in the private sector.

What is your response to this stuff Chris?


PS As ChrisK knows, I worked at the U for a number of years.

[packerboy]

I dont disagree Lee but its good for everyone to hear because those attitudes exist out there.

Its good for ChrisK and his fellow workers to hear so they know what they are up against.

In my experience working in the public sector and in dealing with those that do on a regular basis, I have a way differnet opinion than hockeygod's.

I get way better service and response and much more courtesy from the fine , dedicated people working for the state, the U of M and various counties than a I do when I call up my bank which is now a nationwide , faceless conglomorate that doesnt give a Boof that I have been a customer for 30 years.

I have 2 kids in public colleges. We get great response and sevice anytime we need it. The kids say the same.

The private sector has at least as many issues a does the public as far as givng people their money's worth.

But you are always going to hear about how "my tax dollars pay your salary" and blah blah.

[hockeygod]

I work for a law firm downtown, I have an uncle that's a retired professor at the U a sister thats an associate professor there and one nephew that is also on strike, The general impression I get from my friends and relatives is that the workers on strike the U consists of the least important of the support staff. My sister even stated that the janitors would have more impact if they went on strike. If the strikers are worth more money then they have a huge perception problem because this is how there reguarded in the business community... Is $34,000 a year over paid? I think so and apparently the board of regents thinks so too. Who's company would I rather be in...the hockey boards or the Board of Regents?