Minnesota Twins @ Toronto Blue Jays July 23rd-25th

[pacman]

Game 1: Johan Santana (1-7 2.65 ERA)vs Shaun Marcum (5-4 3.73 ERA)

Twins: Santana endured a rare post-break loss on Wednesday, even though he pitched a solid eight innings against the Tigers. He yielded just three earned runs on five hits while fanning seven, but for the fifth time in his seven losses this season, the Twins were unable to score more than two runs. Santana has not faced the Blue Jays yet this season and is 1-2 with a 4.50 ERA in his career at Rogers Centre

Marcum was tagged with his second loss as a starter in his last outing, despite turning in a strong effort on the road against the Yankees. In his six-plus innings, the right-hander allowed three runs on five hits, but he blanked New York for the first six frames. That marked the sixth time in 13 starts that Marcum began a start with at least six scoreless innings. As a starter, he is now 4-2 with a 3.24 ERA. In his career against the Twins, Marcum is 0-1 with a 3.46 ERA in two games

Game 2: Scott Baker (4-3 5.32 ERA) vs Dustin Mcgowan (6-5 4.84 ERA)

Twins: Baker did what he could to keep his team in the game and stifle the powerful Tigers lineup in his start on Thursday, but couldn't quite do the job. He gave up three earned runs on nine hits over 6 1/3 innings, but came away with a no-decision. Baker still has not lost a game since before the All-Star break, when he pitched a three-hit complete game against the Tigers but was saddled with the loss. The Angels tagged Baker for his first loss of the season on June 5 when he pitched 5 2/3 innings and gave up five earned runs.

McGowen got off to a shaky start on Thursday at Yankee Stadium, allowing two runs before facing the cleanup hitter. The right-hander soon found his rhythm, though, and did not allow another run in his seven frames on the mound. McGowen allowed four hits on the night, while walking three and striking out three.


Game 3: Carlos Silva (8-10 4.60 ERA) vs Jesse Litsch (2-4 4.54 ERA)

Twins: Silva struggled to find his stuff early in his last outing, but he managed to hold on to give up just four earned runs over 6 2/3 innings. Silva is 2-2 with a 5.88 ERA in four career starts vs. Toronto.

Blue Jays: Litsch cruised through the first three innings in his last outing against the Mariners before running into trouble in the fourth. He surrendered a two-run homer to third baseman Adrian Beltre to open the scoring. In the following frame, Litsch's struggles continued. He surrendered back-to-back RBI singles before being chased from the game. Litsch gave up four earned runs while striking out two over 4 1/3 innings. In his only career start against the Twins, Litsch took a no-decision after allowing three earned runs in 4 1/3 innings on May 25.

[boblee]

Thanks pacman.

[pacman]

0-1-0-2
3-0-1-0

Morneau: 2-2 2 HR's 3 RBI

[packerboy]

Baserunning to a degree is instinctive and some players have it, others dont and you cant teach instinct.

But there are some basic rules to baserunning. For example, if you are on second base and there is a ground ball to the left side (ball in front of you) you wait to make sure its through before advancing to 3rd. Same situation and the ball is hit behind you , you go to third. Its automatic, no hesitation.

Every baseball player knows this stuff from about the 3rd grade on.

When you are on third base and there are no outs and a runner on first and a ground ball is hit, you wait. If the ball goes through, you walk home. If it is caught and the throw goes to second to attempt a double play, you walk home.

The Twins are behind 4-3 but have runners on 1st and third with nobody.
Jason Boofin Tynor is at 3rd. A ground ball is hit to the first basemen and Tynor inexplicably breaks for home. The first basemen, who of course is holding the runner, is even with the bag when he catches the ball. Tynor is dead meat, rally over, Twins lose.

I would cut him. I would ban him from baseball.

Mistakes like that are a disgrace to the game. You dont do that. Little kids know you dont do that. Steroids set a bad example for kids but this is even worse. This is the kind of conduct Selig should be coming down on.

Selig should follow Tynor to Toronto and ban him from baseball.

[Neutron 14]

I would cut him. I would ban him from baseball.

Mistakes like that are a disgrace to the game. You dont do that. Little kids know you dont do that. Steroids set a bad example for kids but this is even worse. This is the kind of conduct Selig should be coming down on.

Selig should follow Tynor to Toronto and ban him from baseball.

Geez PB, take a nap. You sound tired....

[ChrisK]

This was the kind of start the Twins did not need from Santana. Four home runs?? I've been reluctant to criticize Johan but this was a game where he needed to take the team on his back and pick up the win and he didn't come through. The Twins are now 9 games back.

According to the paper, Rondell White is still less than 100 percent but the Twins are so desperate for offense that they're going to send him out there. I'd prefer to see Ryan make a deal for a healthy player...

[packerboy]

Its hard to criticize the guy but thats 2 in a row for him. He needed to shut down the Tigers and didnt.

But thats the whole team this year. They just are doing it when they need to. 2 HRs by Morneau ought to be enough.But it seems like when they pitch well, they dont hit and when they hit some, the pitching isnt there.

And then when you throw in base running mistakes, hard to go on a tear.

[Irishmans Shanty]

The Twins are behind 4-3 but have runners on 1st and third with nobody.
Jason Boofin Tynor is at 3rd. A ground ball is hit to the first basemen and Tynor inexplicably breaks for home. The first basemen, who of course is holding the runner, is even with the bag when he catches the ball. Tynor is dead meat, rally over, Twins lose.

Tyner broke for home because it was a win/win situation if he does, SO THEY THOUGHT
a) he ties the game uncontested as the Jays turn a DP on a ground ball in the infield. Home teams usually will allow a tying run to score if they can get two outs with one pitch.
b) they make a play on him at home and the Twins stay out of the dreaded double play

The big flaw with the Twins thinking that option b) was actually an option is because they rarely get that three run homer. Yes, yes, yes Mauer did it Saturday but how many times in three years has it happened. What bugs me about the Twins is they show signs of sitting back and waiting for the three run homer but stock their lineup with slap hitters.

[ChrisK]

Here's Lavelle E. Neal's take on that play by Tyner:

The Twins’ base running in the fifth was horrible. First. Jason Tyner is supposed to make sure he gets the right read on the ball off the bat. There’s a good chance Luis Castillo beats out the double play attempt, and there’s still two runners on base. But Tyner broke early and was caught. And Punto should have stayed at second. It was a mess.

Sounds like Punto messed up too. The Twins defense has been stellar this year, but the baserunning has been sloppy all season. And with the Twins' lack of power they can't be giving up baserunners and bases. The great D may prevent runs but it's all for naught if you're giving them back getting thrown out at home.

[packerboy]

IS, there is absolutely no reason to break for home before the infielder committs. None. Its bad baseball.

Sure, you stay out of the double play but now you have 1st and 2nd with one out instead of one run in with 2. You always take the run and let them try to turn it.

You have to wait to see if the ball goes through and if it doesnt, you wait for the infielder to committ.

I dont have a problem with Puntos agressiveness in that situation.

But Tyner......ban him.

[Irishmans Shanty]

IS, there is absolutely no reason to break for home before the infielder committs. None. Its bad baseball.

It's called the contact play and with speedy runners at third with less than two out, MLB teams have it on more than it's off. In my opinion it is bad baseball as well.

Did anyone ask Gardy after the game why Tyner ran? Was Tyner on his own or did he have marching orders.

[packerboy]

I am ok with the contact play so long as the infield is back. In fact, if the infield plays back, you should have the contact play on.

But in this situation, the 1st basemen has to hold the runner and is therefore going to be even with the bag. If I am the first basemen and they give me the out at home, why bother with trying to turn 2?

Maybe thats what Lavelle means when he says " Tyner needed to get a better read on the ball." If its hit to anybody other than the first basemen , take off for home because everybody else is at DP depth. He must not have read it right or his brain locked up.

Either way, ban him before young people are exposed to this

I cant believe Gardy would have the contact play on if the ball is hit to the first basemen in that situation.

[Irishmans Shanty]

I cant believe Gardy would have the contact play on if the ball is hit to the first basemen in that situation.

If the contact play is on, the runner is only looking at trajectory off the bat, not the direction it is heading on the diamond. There are two positions (1B & Pitcher) the ball can be hit to be dead at home, that leaves only three positions left, thus there is a 40% chance the contact play will fail if the ball is fielded in the infield. That's too high a risk to take with nobody out.

[packerboy]

With nobody out, the contact play should never be on unless all infielders are back.

If the infielders are back, a runner should be able to make sure it gets passed the pitcher.

I hate to see a runner stay at third on a ground ball to second base with the infield back and then die out there.
One of the reasons its so important to get to 3rd is that the runner can score on an out. So, I dont mind the cintact play but it should not have been on in that situation last night.

[Neutron 14]

Twins down 3-0 after 4, another ...yawn... baserunning blunder.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Twins down 3-0 after 4, another ...yawn... baserunning blunder.

If it were basketball or football it would only be a one possession game.

Unfortunately the Twins will need nine hits to......check that, Jays scored again, they will need twelve hits in two innings to get this tied.

[Neutron 14]

Neshek , in a rare display of being mortal, has walked the first two starting the eigth.

[Neutron 14]

The two walks were the highlight of his inning.

[Neutron 14]

Hows Ford (.232) supposed to get anything to hit with Punto (.217) batting behind him?

[Neutron 14]

Final 7-0. And the Twins now lead the American League in times being shut out. (9)

Terry, please help.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Even by Twins standards they have been a little punchless at the plate this year, so to expect a little is asking a lot, but they better rattle this guy around a bit.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Blue Jay HR list versus Twins through 9 games.

Thomas 3
Rios 3
Wells 2
Stairs 2
Johnson
Zaun
Overbay
Clayton
Lind
--------------------
Totals 15

[Irishmans Shanty]

Twins HR list versus Blue Jays through 9 games

Morneau 3
Cuddyer 2
Hunter 2
Bartlett
-------------------
totals 8

When Morneau, Hunter, or Cuddyer get hurt, there is no one else to provide the punch Terry Ryan.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Silva's walking the knife edge ridge again today.

000-10
000-0

[Irishmans Shanty]

000-100
000-02(11)

"Silva has fallen, he's fallen right off the edge of the mountain and the whole staff is going down with him. This is just tragic, just tragic I say."