I read this today in the PPress and had to laugh. We take our hockey pretty seriously in NSP... The only thing I wonder is if they were from the same team or opposing teams...
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 846895.htm
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Local
Posted on Wed, Mar. 07, 2007
Police Calls:
North St. Paul
Fight: Police were called to Polar Arena, 2444 11th Ave., after a report of a fight about 9:30 p.m. Feb. 23. Officers used pepper spray to separate two men who were allegedly fighting in the lobby. The men, ages 51 and 46, were cited on suspicion of disorderly conduct.
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Police
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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ghshockeyfan
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ghshockeyfan
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If I made a list of the worst 10 incidents I saw this year during youth hockey games and dwelled on it, it would make me yank my daughter out of hockey. So I have to concentrate on the exciting moments, the way my girl has grown physically, mentally, and emotionally thru hockey, and all the great people she (and I) have met during the course of a year, and I realize the knuckleheads out there are something we'll just have to put up with.
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MNHockeyFan
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Totally agree, except depending on what kind of transgressions the "knuckleheads" actually commit, there may be appropriate ways of dealing with the situations and hopefully we don't have to put up with them.Bensonmum wrote:If I made a list of the worst 10 incidents I saw this year during youth hockey games and dwelled on it, it would make me yank my daughter out of hockey. So I have to concentrate on the exciting moments, the way my girl has grown physically, mentally, and emotionally thru hockey, and all the great people she (and I) have met during the course of a year, and I realize the knuckleheads out there are something we'll just have to put up with.
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ghshockeyfan
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MNHockeyFan
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Agree, it's a tough sell to parents, especially for families where the fathers did not play hockey themselves. Strike 4 is the perception that hockey is too dangerous, even though I would be willing to bet that there are many more injuries in girls' soccer (knee's) than hockey.ghshockeyfan wrote:I just wonder what parents considering hockey for their young daughters think.
Extremely expensive sport... (Strike 1)
Girls instability of team offerings @ youth... (Strike 2)
Stuff like that cited above... (Strike 3)
...
Not good...
Maybe over time the sport will enjoy another growth spurt when many of today's players, and those who've played the game recently, become young mothers and encourage their own daughters to play hockey.
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ghshockeyfan
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I guess this has become my thread for items of this nature...
http://www.twincities.com/local/ci_6236 ... ck_check=1
Some comments are linked at the bottom as well.
Not hockey, but all too common as I've encountered this and worse too many times as a coach...
One thing I've found is that proactive or pre/early-season communication usually will help avoid this sort of thing and such issues as unrealistic expectations in general, but especially playing time, etc. - for both player but especially parents. Also can't assume that what you communicate to player (at any age about anything) will be correctly reflected in their discussions with others, parents, even admin. if asked, etc. There are ways to communicate any info. (including playing time) in a respectful yet direct way and can be used as a motivational tool if done correctly I believe. But, some don't like the message and that will always be problematic no matter how well you communicate I suppose. I've also watched some coaches take the opposite approach, and say absolutely nothing and communicate very little about anything at all (the "I don't have to explain myself," etc. routine). I'm not sure which is best, but the approaches both have their merit I suppose - although one likely results in more people at the AD's door? One thing I've had a hard time with is that many don't understand the notion of protocol and procedure. I've at times had it dictated to me how I will handle certain circumstances such as the ones referenced in this article and then I get other parents that are angry about the way things are handled, appears not directly addressing the issue, etc. Always interesting...
Equal play is another issue entirely too that I'll save for later... Some don't understand the notion of development of players though, or have differing opinions about development vs. winning at different levels and situations.
http://www.twincities.com/local/ci_6236 ... ck_check=1
Some comments are linked at the bottom as well.
Not hockey, but all too common as I've encountered this and worse too many times as a coach...
One thing I've found is that proactive or pre/early-season communication usually will help avoid this sort of thing and such issues as unrealistic expectations in general, but especially playing time, etc. - for both player but especially parents. Also can't assume that what you communicate to player (at any age about anything) will be correctly reflected in their discussions with others, parents, even admin. if asked, etc. There are ways to communicate any info. (including playing time) in a respectful yet direct way and can be used as a motivational tool if done correctly I believe. But, some don't like the message and that will always be problematic no matter how well you communicate I suppose. I've also watched some coaches take the opposite approach, and say absolutely nothing and communicate very little about anything at all (the "I don't have to explain myself," etc. routine). I'm not sure which is best, but the approaches both have their merit I suppose - although one likely results in more people at the AD's door? One thing I've had a hard time with is that many don't understand the notion of protocol and procedure. I've at times had it dictated to me how I will handle certain circumstances such as the ones referenced in this article and then I get other parents that are angry about the way things are handled, appears not directly addressing the issue, etc. Always interesting...
Equal play is another issue entirely too that I'll save for later... Some don't understand the notion of development of players though, or have differing opinions about development vs. winning at different levels and situations.
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finance_gal
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When a kid is playing at the high school level there should never be an argument about playing time, this should be left entirely up to the coaching staff.
But for the little kids like this isn't there rules stating that everyone has to play so many innings? I can see both sides of the argument because as costs go up to play sports so do the expectations of seeing your kid play. If he's not playing then as a parent you get upset , esppecially in that neighborhood it may be a big stretch finacially for the kid to play ball there. This is where there should be some sort of system in place to hear the parents complaint rather than just throwing him out of game. ( if there is a system in place then it should have been used) The coach should have seen this coming because of this guys history and the Dad shouldn't have gone nuts. this problem has escaleted so far now that court is the only answer. It's a sad story and even sadder baseball season for the kid involved in this
But for the little kids like this isn't there rules stating that everyone has to play so many innings? I can see both sides of the argument because as costs go up to play sports so do the expectations of seeing your kid play. If he's not playing then as a parent you get upset , esppecially in that neighborhood it may be a big stretch finacially for the kid to play ball there. This is where there should be some sort of system in place to hear the parents complaint rather than just throwing him out of game. ( if there is a system in place then it should have been used) The coach should have seen this coming because of this guys history and the Dad shouldn't have gone nuts. this problem has escaleted so far now that court is the only answer. It's a sad story and even sadder baseball season for the kid involved in this
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ghshockeyfan
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Agreed - and what I think happened was a complete failure on many levels to handle this situation better with the circumstances we see now. Maybe if there was a known place to bring the playing time issue to within the organization then this wouldn't have happened. Maybe that place existed though and this happened anyway?
I've learned to be open minded about things like this and not rush to judgement as there are times when a kid is being wronged, but they are seldom I believe. I think the story just illustrates what can happen. And, this is not an uncommon situation I don't think. I bet each of us can recall something like this from our own community - sometimes nearly every season or two...
There may be issues on a couple levels here including philosophy of coaching youth, etc. Or, maybe there was a simple misunderstanding that went a little too far...
I've learned to be open minded about things like this and not rush to judgement as there are times when a kid is being wronged, but they are seldom I believe. I think the story just illustrates what can happen. And, this is not an uncommon situation I don't think. I bet each of us can recall something like this from our own community - sometimes nearly every season or two...
There may be issues on a couple levels here including philosophy of coaching youth, etc. Or, maybe there was a simple misunderstanding that went a little too far...
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Twinnesota
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Unfortunately, in my humble experience, your "little kids" rule does not seem to exist, or at least is not enforced by anyone.finance_gal wrote:When a kid is playing at the high school level there should never be an argument about playing time, this should be left entirely up to the coaching staff.
But for the little kids like this isn't there rules stating that everyone has to play so many innings?
I have a varsity daughter that could have benefited greatly at U11 age had she played even an equal time with the other kids. Regardless, she is still quite accomplished and contributes greatly to the team.
The U11 coach was too concerned about winning to play all the kids. I wonder if this is the rule rather than the exception??
T
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keepitreal
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Any coach in youth sports who doesn't try his/her best to ensure equity in playing time over the course of the season doesn't deserve the position. On a great/contending team there are usually plenty of opportunities where you can play kids of any skill level and give them an opportunity to succeed-- i.e., sit your superstars against a weaker opponent and give the other kids a chance. On an average or poor team that probably won't be a post-season factor, there's no excuse not to try and provide equal time because you're probably not going anywhere and it behooves a coach to try and develop as many players as possible for the future. It takes a little planning and understanding of a team's stature, but there's no need to sacrifice the chances of a contending team OR the playing time of the developing players. In my opinion, regular season should be equal play over the course of the season. Playoffs are bonus time outside of the fees and on a 12A-level or above (or boys PWB1 team or above) this is where a coach might use a degree of discretion to help his team advance. It's so simple, yet this seems to escape the mentality of so many coaches. Yes, you might risk losing a regular season game or two that you might otherwise win by sitting your best players, but assuming you still qualify for playoffs, you will end up with a deeper and more cohesive team (not to mention doing the right thing for the kids).Twinnesota wrote:Unfortunately, in my humble experience, your "little kids" rule does not seem to exist, or at least is not enforced by anyone.
I have a varsity daughter that could have benefited greatly at U11 age had she played even an equal time with the other kids. Regardless, she is still quite accomplished and contributes greatly to the team.
The U11 coach was too concerned about winning to play all the kids. I wonder if this is the rule rather than the exception??
T
If I'm a parent of a youth player who is paying an equal amount of money for participation, I would be very upset by this lack of leadership and insight.
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finance_gal
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It's sad if there isn't a rule in all sports that makes certain that all the kids get to play an equal amount of time at the youth level, and that there are coaches out there that feel it is so important to win everygame that they risk having kids give up the sport for good because the want to win some title that will be forgotten in a year. In quality programs that continue to grow thet try to make sure that kids enjoy the experiance and want to come back. that should be thfocus at the youth level, teach them to enjoy playing and make sure they learn the game right...winng should just be the byproduct of everyone learning and growing.
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Twinnesota
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You nailed it !!!finance_gal wrote:It's sad if there isn't a rule in all sports that makes certain that all the kids get to play an equal amount of time at the youth level, and that there are coaches out there that feel it is so important to win everygame that they risk having kids give up the sport for good because the want to win some title that will be forgotten in a year. In quality programs that continue to grow thet try to make sure that kids enjoy the experiance and want to come back. that should be thfocus at the youth level, teach them to enjoy playing and make sure they learn the game right...winng should just be the byproduct of everyone learning and growing.
T
Very well said!finance_gal wrote:It's sad if there isn't a rule in all sports that makes certain that all the kids get to play an equal amount of time at the youth level, and that there are coaches out there that feel it is so important to win everygame that they risk having kids give up the sport for good because the want to win some title that will be forgotten in a year. In quality programs that continue to grow thet try to make sure that kids enjoy the experiance and want to come back. that should be thfocus at the youth level, teach them to enjoy playing and make sure they learn the game right...winng should just be the byproduct of everyone learning and growing.
the other issue is that not all kids develop at the same speed and just because they are not Super Sandy right now does not mean that in a few years they won't turn into a Super Sandy.
A true coach will develop skills in all players by working their individual weakness.