Souhan has a column in the Red Star today where he cries out for more depth and a 3rd basemen who can hit.
Hardly a scoop. I doubt he just made that up. Its kinda like Travolta's line in Saturday Night Fever in describng a dance move his character said: "Yah, I made it up myself, well, first I saw it on TV and then I made it up."
Souhan just reads this thread and then writes his column.
Souhan's theme is a good one but its more complicated than that ths year.
Dont look now boys but there pitching hasnt been that good.
Its a staff that any team with a good offense would be thrilled with. But it aint good enough for this team.
Santana has been good but just good not great. If he pitched for the Red Sox, he'd have 10 wins but with ths team, he has to be great to win a lot of games.
Bonser and Silva have been about what you need.
Slowey has been fine but Baker is ready for reassignment.
The bullpen has been good but not what they have been in the past. Yesterday was a disaster.
The team has needs all over the place.
Twins 29-29, All Square & Ready To Go On A Tear
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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Neutron 14
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Irishmans Shanty
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Tweaking means just that.
Minor changes.
Frick for frack.
Cheap for a little cheaper.
If the pitching staff doesnt come around, its a .500 season.
The bats of Punto and Bartlett will not explode in the second half. Tyner will not start hittng homers. Rondel is sore and that was one sorry axe acquisition.
Lew Ford will continue to have his pictures of high Twins officials engaged in somethng very illegal.
Hopefully , Castillo, Hunter, and Morneau wll continue on their pace and Cuddyer and Mauer can contrbute.
Santana has to return to Cy Young form and the rest of the staff has to be better because all youre going to get out of the offense is what you got.
Minor changes.
Frick for frack.
Cheap for a little cheaper.
If the pitching staff doesnt come around, its a .500 season.
The bats of Punto and Bartlett will not explode in the second half. Tyner will not start hittng homers. Rondel is sore and that was one sorry axe acquisition.
Lew Ford will continue to have his pictures of high Twins officials engaged in somethng very illegal.
Hopefully , Castillo, Hunter, and Morneau wll continue on their pace and Cuddyer and Mauer can contrbute.
Santana has to return to Cy Young form and the rest of the staff has to be better because all youre going to get out of the offense is what you got.
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grindiangrad-80
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Irishmans Shanty
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Twins 34-34 on 6/18
Is the '07 version a team of destiny or are they simply a team who wins just as much as they lose?
Last year at this time many of us had guarded optimism, Mauer, Cuddyer, and Morneau were all emerging as potential stars but were probably leading a team that would be a year away from contending for the post-season. Well, the future is here and they are in the same place.
Here's why, Mauer has been Mr. Invisible, he has a lofty average but has missed 30 games to injury as he now sits with 1 HR and 16 RBI's. Cuddyer has been very unoticeable offensively, so average that our 3rd place hitter is most known for his outfield assists. Those assists are great but we need more instant offense. I hate to put pressure on you Michael but the front office has done little to help you guys in the guts of the order.
The Twins are a four cylinder engine that has been basically running on two, Morneau and Hunter. If not for M&H the Twins would be 10 under, easy. Redmond has overachieved and Luis has been good at the top, beyond that, they are mediocre.
The pitching hasn't been outstanding but they have deserved better. Look no further than tonight. Silva gave up some hits, he needed some good D, he stranded some runners but he only surrendered 2 points through 5.2 innings. Bring in Neshek and it's 2-0 going to the 7th.
Based on the first 68 games last year, the post-season sweep, and the first 68 games this year, maybe that magical run last year more appropriately belonged in that great, but exhiled thread that Neutron created? What was the name of that thread again?
Is the '07 version a team of destiny or are they simply a team who wins just as much as they lose?
Last year at this time many of us had guarded optimism, Mauer, Cuddyer, and Morneau were all emerging as potential stars but were probably leading a team that would be a year away from contending for the post-season. Well, the future is here and they are in the same place.
Here's why, Mauer has been Mr. Invisible, he has a lofty average but has missed 30 games to injury as he now sits with 1 HR and 16 RBI's. Cuddyer has been very unoticeable offensively, so average that our 3rd place hitter is most known for his outfield assists. Those assists are great but we need more instant offense. I hate to put pressure on you Michael but the front office has done little to help you guys in the guts of the order.
The Twins are a four cylinder engine that has been basically running on two, Morneau and Hunter. If not for M&H the Twins would be 10 under, easy. Redmond has overachieved and Luis has been good at the top, beyond that, they are mediocre.
The pitching hasn't been outstanding but they have deserved better. Look no further than tonight. Silva gave up some hits, he needed some good D, he stranded some runners but he only surrendered 2 points through 5.2 innings. Bring in Neshek and it's 2-0 going to the 7th.
Based on the first 68 games last year, the post-season sweep, and the first 68 games this year, maybe that magical run last year more appropriately belonged in that great, but exhiled thread that Neutron created? What was the name of that thread again?
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Irishmans Shanty
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As June gets late the bad teams are starting to talk about unloading players.
A couple of names already out there are Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.
Dunn interests me, he will bring SO's but will provide instant offense.
Griffey Jr's large contract expires in '08 and the Reds will pay a part of it.
Do the Twins attack or stand down? I think we all know the answer to that.
A couple of names already out there are Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.
Dunn interests me, he will bring SO's but will provide instant offense.
Griffey Jr's large contract expires in '08 and the Reds will pay a part of it.
Do the Twins attack or stand down? I think we all know the answer to that.
With his history of leg problems, I don't see Griffey accepting a trade to a team that plays on artifical turf - even if it is FieldTurf (which is two teams at this point, unfortunately, ours is one of thoseIrishmans Shanty wrote:As June gets late the bad teams are starting to talk about unloading players.
A couple of names already out there are Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.
Dunn interests me, he will bring SO's but will provide instant offense.
Griffey Jr's large contract expires in '08 and the Reds will pay a part of it.
Do the Twins attack or stand down? I think we all know the answer to that.
). As far as Dunn, it's an interesting idea, but he'd probably be a rent-a-player. He's signed through '07, with an '08 option that is voided if he gets dealt from Cincinnati. I suppose they could then enter the free agent bidding for '08, but would they? He's usually good for 40 HR... put him behind Morneau and look out. It's an interesting idea.
I really wish they would have made a better push for him when he was a free agent a couple seasons ago.
Ithnk they need to think long term on a hitter. They need to think about an Adam Dunn as somebody to play along side Mauer, Morneau etc for a number of years.
They dont have anybody in the organization who can hit, except for about 5 guys on this team.
They need to acquire and then sign somebody on a long term basis.
As far as Griffey playing on turf, two letters....DH.
They dont have anybody in the organization who can hit, except for about 5 guys on this team.
They need to acquire and then sign somebody on a long term basis.
As far as Griffey playing on turf, two letters....DH.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Is a package containing Joe Mauer good enough to recieve two top shelf starters in return? If so, I think you consider dealing him. Leaving LF, SS, 3B, and DH all unadressed will kill this club's chances, a Mauer deal eliminates two of these current disasters. I'm not talking rent-a-players here, we are talking real players who will be around at least a couple of years.
Rational:
First, The Twins have hung on and have stayed afloat without his services this year as he has missed 31 of 69 games. Second, catcher is a position where you don't need a lot of sizzle to be good. The Twins made the playoffs in '04 with Henry Blanco catching 114 games as Joe Mauer was icing his knee. Third, Redmond can secure the position this year and there is no reason to believe he can't do it again next year. If not, next year you bring back AJ to anchor the plate for about what Cirillo, Rondell, and Reyes cost this year.
Fallout:
Minnesotans will cry bloody murder, how can you trade the hometown boy? Here's why, he will never be more valuable than what he is right now. Five years from now it will be a bad trade, Mauer will still be 20 something and the guys we got will be gone. But if the Twins win a world series because of it, nobody is going to care.
I don't think any of us find Morneau's HR's to be any less sweet because he is a Canadian. Was Killabrew, Puckett, or Gaetti from Minnesota? Come to think of it Reardon was from New Ulm and Santana is Mankato.
Rational:
First, The Twins have hung on and have stayed afloat without his services this year as he has missed 31 of 69 games. Second, catcher is a position where you don't need a lot of sizzle to be good. The Twins made the playoffs in '04 with Henry Blanco catching 114 games as Joe Mauer was icing his knee. Third, Redmond can secure the position this year and there is no reason to believe he can't do it again next year. If not, next year you bring back AJ to anchor the plate for about what Cirillo, Rondell, and Reyes cost this year.
Fallout:
Minnesotans will cry bloody murder, how can you trade the hometown boy? Here's why, he will never be more valuable than what he is right now. Five years from now it will be a bad trade, Mauer will still be 20 something and the guys we got will be gone. But if the Twins win a world series because of it, nobody is going to care.
I don't think any of us find Morneau's HR's to be any less sweet because he is a Canadian. Was Killabrew, Puckett, or Gaetti from Minnesota? Come to think of it Reardon was from New Ulm and Santana is Mankato.
IS has left us and an alien being has stolen his mind, body and computer.
Mauer is a very good young player with an excellent chance to be a great player. I dont care if he is from Mnnesota or Mongolia.
He just won the batting title and is an outstanding defensive catcher. In order to take it one notch up he has to hit with a bit more power but even if that never happens, he wll be great.
I dont understand the hysteria about his injuries. Killebrew and Carew had serous injuries and missed sgnficant parts of seasons, they didnt trade them.
Torrii Hunter missed a good chunk of last season.....trade him.
Should we trade Liriano?
Why did the Yankees keep Mantle ? How stupid.
The list of great players who have been sidelined with significant injures is a long one.
Mauer may play 15 more years and never have another serious injury.
Lets get over it.
Mauer is a very good young player with an excellent chance to be a great player. I dont care if he is from Mnnesota or Mongolia.
He just won the batting title and is an outstanding defensive catcher. In order to take it one notch up he has to hit with a bit more power but even if that never happens, he wll be great.
I dont understand the hysteria about his injuries. Killebrew and Carew had serous injuries and missed sgnficant parts of seasons, they didnt trade them.
Torrii Hunter missed a good chunk of last season.....trade him.
Should we trade Liriano?
Why did the Yankees keep Mantle ? How stupid.
The list of great players who have been sidelined with significant injures is a long one.
Mauer may play 15 more years and never have another serious injury.
Lets get over it.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Neutron 14
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Shows what lengths Shanty will go to get rid of Rubiks Kubel.Irishmans Shanty wrote:Vernon Wells, Troy Glaus and cash for Joe Mauer, Jason Kubel, and Matt Garza.
Speaking of Aliens.
Ramon Ortiz is all smiles after
raising his record to 3-0 following
his start in Seattle.
Keep Mauer, even if he went to Cretin.
Trade Mauer?!?, yes PB, I think the summer heat has gotten to old IS. The Twins aren't exactly up against the old salary cap here, Carl and Jim Pohlad won't spend much more money; Troy Glaus will make 12.75 million next year and Wells starts a 7 year 126 million contract next season(not to mention his 25.5 million signing bonus). It would be club suicide for the Twins to make that deal. By contrast Mauer's deal is only worth 30 million total over the next 3 seasons.
Mauer may never be worth more, but he is a bargain over the next 3 years at least. After that then a trade possibility is probably in order.
Just a thought, but should the Twins not resign Hunter and they follow the IS plan, what in Heck's name would draw people to watch this team aside from Santana? Sid made mention the other day that this season the Twins drew 1 million fans faster than any previous season. That alone ought to be enough to get them to open up the checkbook for Hunter. The guy is a hockey player on cleats, he plays hurt and he plays hard every out.
Mauer may never be worth more, but he is a bargain over the next 3 years at least. After that then a trade possibility is probably in order.
Just a thought, but should the Twins not resign Hunter and they follow the IS plan, what in Heck's name would draw people to watch this team aside from Santana? Sid made mention the other day that this season the Twins drew 1 million fans faster than any previous season. That alone ought to be enough to get them to open up the checkbook for Hunter. The guy is a hockey player on cleats, he plays hurt and he plays hard every out.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Since the end of last season I have floated some scenarios where the Twins would trade Santana, Morneau, or Mauer. PB has shown some consistency and has shot down all of them with guns blazing. However, Goldy was open to the movement of Morneau, why is moving the reigning MVP o.k. and moving Mauer not? Both are young, they are bargains until their years of service catch up to their numbers, and they both could be moved to fill more spots than they occupy themselves.
Goldy is right, trading Mauer for Wells and Glaus is financial suicide, but what about Mauer for a couple of younger cheaper stars like Sizemore and Hafner?
Two things are for certain, I'm not TR, and If I were, Mauer, Morneau, and Santana aren't going anywhere unless it would be a slamdunk heist. I'm just wondering if a GM/organization's personal feelings can get in the way of a smart business opportunity such as giving up one apple to get two in return.
Goldy is right, trading Mauer for Wells and Glaus is financial suicide, but what about Mauer for a couple of younger cheaper stars like Sizemore and Hafner?
Two things are for certain, I'm not TR, and If I were, Mauer, Morneau, and Santana aren't going anywhere unless it would be a slamdunk heist. I'm just wondering if a GM/organization's personal feelings can get in the way of a smart business opportunity such as giving up one apple to get two in return.
All kidding a side (like that would ever happen), any trade that would make the team better would be a good one.
I was one of the few people who thought they should have traded Puckett rather than put all that money into one player. I argued that he had won 2 world series and if the team was to remain competitive, they should spread the money out and keep other players.
But I was told that such talk was heresy and that no one would come to the games if they didnt sign Puckett. Well, they signed him , the team went into the tank and nobody came to the games anyway.
So, if they traded Mauer and won a world series I would be fine with it.
But right now, they are 36-34. Since they were 34-34, they are a new team. It seems that reaching the 34-34 mark has rejuvenated them.
Lets go. Get hot. Win 8 out of 10. They havent had a hot streak yet. Lets get one started.
I was one of the few people who thought they should have traded Puckett rather than put all that money into one player. I argued that he had won 2 world series and if the team was to remain competitive, they should spread the money out and keep other players.
But I was told that such talk was heresy and that no one would come to the games if they didnt sign Puckett. Well, they signed him , the team went into the tank and nobody came to the games anyway.
So, if they traded Mauer and won a world series I would be fine with it.
But right now, they are 36-34. Since they were 34-34, they are a new team. It seems that reaching the 34-34 mark has rejuvenated them.
Lets go. Get hot. Win 8 out of 10. They havent had a hot streak yet. Lets get one started.
The reason I'm not against trading Morneau is that he has more value on the trading block than a slap hitting catcher. I believe the Twins would get more for Morneau than he is probably worth, almost a Herscel Walker deal in reverse. A power hitter is worth more than a singles guy; how else do you explain Manny Rameriz? He is, aside from Bonds, the worst defensive outfielder in the game yet will make 18 million this seaon. By contrast Ichiro makes 11 million, he's a Gold Glove caliber OF who always hits above .300. Add to that Morneau is only signed through this season and it's almost always better to trade a guy at the end of his contract than in the middle of one.
I guess I'm not against a trade of anyone as long as the Twins get more in return than what they pay for, both financially and talent wise. Terry Ryan has always been good at fleecing other teams, however I also remember a time when the Twins had a weakness at 2nd base and overpayed by sending Brunansky away for Tommy Herr.
I guess I'm not against a trade of anyone as long as the Twins get more in return than what they pay for, both financially and talent wise. Terry Ryan has always been good at fleecing other teams, however I also remember a time when the Twins had a weakness at 2nd base and overpayed by sending Brunansky away for Tommy Herr.
That was Macphail that did the Herr / Bruno deal.
If you trade Morneau, what do you want in return thats realistic that will help the club? The guy was voted most valuable player.
Do we think we can get the "mostest valuable" player for him?
You would trade a Morneau for pitching if you had enough offense and needed pitching. Other than that, I cant see it.
If you trade Morneau, what do you want in return thats realistic that will help the club? The guy was voted most valuable player.
Do we think we can get the "mostest valuable" player for him?
You would trade a Morneau for pitching if you had enough offense and needed pitching. Other than that, I cant see it.
Personally I wouldn't trade Morneau, I was just pointing out why, in my mind, trading him would make more sense than trading Mauer. He's worth more and will end up costing the Twins more than Mauer will and in my opinion the Twins won't pay him what he'll get on the open market or possibly even through arbitration.
Throw salaries out the window for a moment and think what the Yankees would pay for him, especially just to free themselves of the Giambi mess. Right now they have Miguel Cairo or All-Star Catcher Jorge Posada playing 1B, they might give up their entire AAA francise Steinbrenner wants to win so bad.
I just go by past history; the Twins won't, aside from Castillo, trade for a front line player, they're notoriously cheap, and prefer to build from the minors rather than from free agency or trades. The Twins have little to no power in the minors right now so where is any power going to come from? Just an educated guess but from a deal with somebody for prospects and who do the Twins really have to deal?
Why in the heck don't the Twins bring Glenn Williams up to play 3B?
Throw salaries out the window for a moment and think what the Yankees would pay for him, especially just to free themselves of the Giambi mess. Right now they have Miguel Cairo or All-Star Catcher Jorge Posada playing 1B, they might give up their entire AAA francise Steinbrenner wants to win so bad.
I just go by past history; the Twins won't, aside from Castillo, trade for a front line player, they're notoriously cheap, and prefer to build from the minors rather than from free agency or trades. The Twins have little to no power in the minors right now so where is any power going to come from? Just an educated guess but from a deal with somebody for prospects and who do the Twins really have to deal?
Why in the heck don't the Twins bring Glenn Williams up to play 3B?
Agreed goldy... nothing exciting will happen before the non-waiver trade deadline. However, they have been known to make an impactivng deal before the close of the waiver deadline (see: Don Baylor in '87). Speculation is fun to a point, but neither Morneau nor Mauer are going anywhere via trade.
I would love to see kind of a deal they could swing for some combintation of Baker, Kubel, Rincon, and/or Ford. Having seen the problems with short relief around the league, Rincon could get some return.
I would love to see kind of a deal they could swing for some combintation of Baker, Kubel, Rincon, and/or Ford. Having seen the problems with short relief around the league, Rincon could get some return.
Mid-season trade?
The twins haven't played all that well, certainly not consistently,.....but they are only 5 1/2 games out. How many championship have been won with a midseason trade involving a teams core hitters? A gut feeling is,...not many. Aren't they more commonly won by the aquisition of a key supporting player(s), or existing supporting player(s) over achieving a bit?
Mauer and Morneau are untouchable. What other team has players with more potential? They are 24 and 26, respectively. They have already won a batting title and an MVP, respectively. Neither has reached their potential. They have not had their best season, yet. They each have 5 to 10 more years of potential MVP-type seasons in the future. Do we want to watch them have their best years on another team, or watch them perform against the Twins?
Cuddyer is 28, and is just now entering his prime, I'd be hessitant to trade him, too.
Hunter is the only mid lineup hitter to consider only because of contract status and his age (32). However, he IS the heart and soul (leader) of this team,...as long as they are in it, you don't trade him either. If they fall out of contention, a trade is possible because of contract status, and because they can get a top player(s) for him.
Mauer and Morneau are untouchable. What other team has players with more potential? They are 24 and 26, respectively. They have already won a batting title and an MVP, respectively. Neither has reached their potential. They have not had their best season, yet. They each have 5 to 10 more years of potential MVP-type seasons in the future. Do we want to watch them have their best years on another team, or watch them perform against the Twins?
Cuddyer is 28, and is just now entering his prime, I'd be hessitant to trade him, too.
Hunter is the only mid lineup hitter to consider only because of contract status and his age (32). However, he IS the heart and soul (leader) of this team,...as long as they are in it, you don't trade him either. If they fall out of contention, a trade is possible because of contract status, and because they can get a top player(s) for him.
Keep them all and sign Hunter.
Go out a get a guy who can hit the boofin ball to play left field and get a DH that can bat in the 6 spot or above.
Spend whatever it takes to do that.
I am a pretty conservative guy but every once in a while I like to blow some money just to have a little fun. Its good for yah. Cleans out the old pipes. Carl needs to to that with the team.
Go ahead Carl, have some fun, blow some money and clean out those pipes. It'll be good for yah.
Go out a get a guy who can hit the boofin ball to play left field and get a DH that can bat in the 6 spot or above.
Spend whatever it takes to do that.
I am a pretty conservative guy but every once in a while I like to blow some money just to have a little fun. Its good for yah. Cleans out the old pipes. Carl needs to to that with the team.
Go ahead Carl, have some fun, blow some money and clean out those pipes. It'll be good for yah.
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Neutron 14
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I'll second that motion. Use that money you were saving for another new hip and sign Hunter.packerboy wrote:Keep them all and sign Hunter.
Go out a get a guy who can hit the boofin ball to play left field and get a DH that can bat in the 6 spot or above.
Spend whatever it takes to do that.
I am a pretty conservative guy but every once in a while I like to blow some money just to have a little fun. Its good for yah. Cleans out the old pipes. Carl needs to to that with the team.
Go ahead Carl, have some fun, blow some money and clean out those pipes. It'll be good for yah.
Just a question.....
......to the "conservative" Packerboy. When you "clean out the pipes" and "blow some money" on some fun, is it millions,.....or just 50 or 100, maybe a 1000 dollars? 