Who got hosed in the select 15's?

[pucker52]

[But to by-pass this opportunity becasue you believe there may be politics involved is stupidity. Offering such advice to people goes beyond stupidity and violates any ethical fiduciary responsibiltiy to people you are advising. ]

I would be embarassed if I said something about the stupidity of others and then proceeded to use a phrase that I clearly had no idea what it meant. I have looked back over some of your posts and you are clearly an apologist for MN Hockey, not the change agent you would like to think yourself to be.

[Hockeyguy_27]

Again, ignorance rules.

Those that are bitter for one reason or another have personal bias.
Saying you do not is what makes it obvious you do. ALL people have bias.
Ovrelooking your bias is difficult, especially when you do not your own bias.

The system does not make monye for MN Hockey or anyone.

USA Hockey runs and approves systems used in the selct program. MN Hockey participates in all USA Hockey efforts to make the programs better. If you are not aware of this fact, then you are ignorant. Ignorance can be overcome. Stupitidy is ths failure to lessen your ignorance.

Selcet 16 picks can be (and are) pre-made by USA Hockey personnel. A goalie at the Bemdiji try-out may very well have been pre-chosen (I have no knowledge of this as I have little input in 16 & 17 levels).

But to by-pass this opportunity becasue you believe there may be politics involved is stupidity. Offering such advice to people goes beyond stupidity and violates any ethical fiduciary responsibiltiy to people you are advising.


Bringing in outside dsitrict advisors may seem like a good idea, but from where and at what cost?
District 15 personnel know alot about District 16 bantam players.

Negative attitudes without positive solutions are meaningless and destructive. Positive solutions without effort are worthless.

Some threads are designed, others flow to not being worth much.

Those with negative attitudes and nothing else, take your ball and go home.
Those with ideas but no work ethic, pass them on to the workers, but your right to complain has diminished.

For all you positive, hard workers, sorry you had to get to here to realize you can ignore this post.

Elliot 70, It looks as if you are a Jedi master in the art of condescending posts.

[whockeyguy]

Your ignorance has shown thru here in your statement about the goalie in Bemidji may have been chosen already,, THIS WAS A TRYOUT, and that is what has got all these people UPSET,
Tell me why does a family pat $60-80 to try out on something that maybe already chosen, sounds like FRUAD to me.
Right now these tryout get anywhere from 35-60 particapants all PAYING customers,, now lets say people get wind of this and the numbers drop to say 15-25,, thats aprox. $600 to $2000 net loss for the people that run this,, so dont tell me that numbers are not a factor here.
I know for a FACT this systems makes money and quite a bit of it also , but due to the creative bookwork in MN Hockey this excess gets funneled off to other pet projects.. Elliot your not talking to somebody that doesnt know how the system works. So when somebody seems negative out here maybe theres a d___ good reason for it,, all the people want here is fair and equal chance, nothing more and nothing less.

Going back to your statement about that goalie situation,, if this was pre- made then i believe usa and Mn hockey owe a heck of alot money back in refunds,,, or do the lawyers have to get involved as your statement shows thats they have taken money from people and misrepresented the intemtions of this program,
Anybody out there want to jump on that bandwagon

[HockeyRocks1]

Take it easy on E-70, he's not thawd out up there yet. I think he took a lot of our comments out of context.

I think most of the posts are just wanting a fair tryout with honest information!

[elliott70]

I apologize to those I offended. It was a bad day.

But the money made on the try-outs (at 15's) is equal to the cost (or at least as close as you can get with a pre-event budget). At the district level I know this to be fact.

The 16's and 17's are USA Hockey events. They control the process of advancement (the Ann Arbor kids advance even if they can or cannot make it to try-outs). Fact. Try-outs are try-outs for the other kids. Is this right, wrong, false advertising? Maybe, but it seems most that post here know what is going on, so you should know this.

Expressing opinions on this board is one thing, but a lot of people like to BASH someone. A kid, a coach, an association, MN Hockey, AAA, etal. - thay all get it from someone. And several do it with incorrect information (or none at all ie ignorance).
Expressing an opinion is one thing, but saying soemthing is wrong becasue the 'wrong' kids advanced is simply bashing the opinion of another.

Again, I apologize to everyone, the ones I disagree with (dislike, perhaps) and the ones with which I do agree.
If you feel that some of the comments on here are truely expressing an opinion, then go ahead express.

And I will continue to read and listen to those with ideas that have a chance to work. And continue to work to implement ideas to make things better (at least where I can).

And I still am one of the few that let people know who I am and what my bias may be.

Mark Elliott
District 16 Director
Minnesota Hockey

[whockeyguy]

apology accepted here, but most people do not know about the try out untill they witness it for themselves, then they see some of the garbage that goes on and no wonder they get a bad taste for it. Its only if they have a second one going thru is when they can make a wise choice , untill then it is up to all us little folk to try to educate them to REAL life of this stuff. I still believe this is one of the biggest farces that USA , and the willing partner MN Hockey put on,,, get the money from the ones that dont know better to provide for the ones WE want

[Hockeyguy_27]

I apologize to those I offended. It was a bad day.

But the money made on the try-outs (at 15's) is equal to the cost (or at least as close as you can get with a pre-event budget). At the district level I know this to be fact.

The 16's and 17's are USA Hockey events. They control the process of advancement (the Ann Arbor kids advance even if they can or cannot make it to try-outs). Fact. Try-outs are try-outs for the other kids. Is this right, wrong, false advertising? Maybe, but it seems most that post here know what is going on, so you should know this.

Expressing opinions on this board is one thing, but a lot of people like to BASH someone. A kid, a coach, an association, MN Hockey, AAA, etal. - thay all get it from someone. And several do it with incorrect information (or none at all ie ignorance).
Expressing an opinion is one thing, but saying soemthing is wrong becasue the 'wrong' kids advanced is simply bashing the opinion of another.

Again, I apologize to everyone, the ones I disagree with (dislike, perhaps) and the ones with which I do agree.
If you feel that some of the comments on here are truely expressing an opinion, then go ahead express.

And I will continue to read and listen to those with ideas that have a chance to work. And continue to work to implement ideas to make things better (at least where I can).

And I still am one of the few that let people know who I am and what my bias may be.

Mark Elliott
District 16 Director
Minnesota Hockey

No apologies necessary. You seem like a stand-up guy for posting what you did and we all have bad days. I myself am an encouragable smart-ass most of the time Thanks to people like you who put your hearts and soul into youth hockey. It is a thankless job at times.

[elliott70]

No USA Hockey affiliate (Minnkota - formerly starting now Minnesota Hockey as a stand alone affiliate) has a choice on participation in 16 & 17's.
We are part of it or we are not - like local associations being part of their district and MN HOckey.
14's and 15's are a slightly different animal with a lillte more flexibility in how and if they operate.
As most people, I was ignorant of USA hockey's power over the 16/17 program.

At the 15 level for the district team it is not unlike picking the A team at the association level. 8 or 10 kids stand out, the next 5 - 7 kids separate tehmselves from the pack, and the last 5 or so kids are probably interchangeable with another 5 kids or so.

For the 105 or 107 that go to St Cloud the same thing applies but is even more difficult as they are observed in game situation wher not everyone of the 240 are on the ice agianst others that they are competing with.

Most of us could pick the first 60 plus or minus with very little difference. After that you have 180 kids vying for 40 or 50 spots.
Can someone design a method that would pick those spots better?
Yes, I am sure we all could. But at what cost?

Give me ideas on how the select 15 festival can be re-worked to easier differentiate the last 40 or 50 picks and I will pass it on to Hokcey Ops Committee.

As far as the local district selection policy, I believe all the DD's will take your input and welcome you as an evaluator.

[norcon]

From what I read on the USA hockey website there were to be forty spots available for the select 15 tryouts in each district. District 12 had approximately thirty-two players show up for the tryout. Did they not
consider allowing some borderline kids to tryout or were there no-shows?
I would think USA hockey would want those spots filled, even just for the sake of the money they would take in. This is where I question the local
bias amongst the district coaches. Why not consider giving some better b1 players a chance if there are spots available?

[elliott70]

From what I read on the USA hockey website there were to be forty spots available for the select 15 tryouts in each district. District 12 had approximately thirty-two players show up for the tryout. Did they not
consider allowing some borderline kids to tryout or were there no-shows?
I would think USA hockey would want those spots filled, even just for the sake of the money they would take in. This is where I question the local
bias amongst the district coaches. Why not consider giving some better b1 players a chance if there are spots available?

The players do not have to be 'A' registered.
You can have B players at the tryouts. Discuss at the next District meeting.

[bantamA01]

yes there can be B kids trying out there was one for D6
Honestly i think Select 15 is a scam i tried out and i stood out but i have no contacts and no one knows who I am and the kid that isnt very good but has all the contacts makes the team
I dunno if everyone else experienced this but i thought it was a joke I had many ppl come up and say that i made the team for sure and then i found out the one kid that i thought had no chance made the team

[Dazed&Confused]

Everyone should keep thier heads up. We all can agree politics has a big impact on youth sports. Name recognition and favors happen. But in the end the players that move on to the national camp are all very talented and belong there. Yes I believe you could replace all 20 and they would all be just as talented. Having a chance to go to the tryouts should be a big deal. The selects process should include more. Instead of rewarding a select few. Reward a select many. Improve all these players coach them. Raise the level of play for 120 not 20. We have the rinks the coaches the money Parents willing to commit. In the end I would love to see a national team made up of 60 to 70 % minnesota born and raised players. Let the rest of the country want we have.

[watchdog]

i just hope that after enough people raise awareness to this problem that things will improve in the future.

[jancze5]

BANTAM A1---alot of players and parents forget that just because you can score and skate doesn't equate to the mold that they are looking for. Sometimes you have no idea what they saw in player XX who you thought was weak, maybe they saw vision on the ice and hustle on the backcheck, pressure on the forecheck...there's alot that goes into the selection process at that level and as political as it may be to get there, the 20 kids selected were picked for different reasons. Don't get dismayed because you're not picked at 15...GO BACK at 16 and most importantly stay the course and being picked at 17+ is alot more prevalent. Good luck...