STILLWATER COACH RELEASED
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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whockeyguy
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- Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:56 pm
one must also look at this closed meeting,, as far as i know most assoc. are non- profit org. thus if a paying member wants to they are are entitiled to be present at any meeting unless they cause a disruptive service, otherwise the org. can loose its non- profit status, also Mn Hockey does have a grievence policy and the timing must be adheard to,. this sound s like the GOOD OL BOY network in the home town, and lets face it Housley will split as soon as the kids are gone, and i dont even live close to this but even the blind can see this one
There are ALWAYS two sides to every story. What about the uncontrolled, unruly side of Mark. The side that screams in a players face, locks players out of the locker room, benches players for their parents asking questions, and let’s not forget his blatant disregard for anyone’s opinion and lack of respect for the Stillwater hockey association. Mark needed a reality check and now he has it. This has been building for a few years and this years actions were just the point of no return....
Shooter75 wrote:There are ALWAYS two sides to every story. What about the uncontrolled, unruly side of Mark. The side that screams in a players face, locks players out of the locker room, benches players for their parents asking questions, and let’s not forget his blatant disregard for anyone’s opinion and lack of respect for the Stillwater hockey association. Mark needed a reality check and now he has it. This has been building for a few years and this years actions were just the point of no return....
these may be relavent issues, but not related at all to the captain issue with housley and the board........ and regarding parent interferance. if parents didnt get involved, everyone would just get rolled by the HS coach...
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inthestands
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Shooter75, let's look around and find one other Bantam A coach that at some point in time hasn't exhibited those same behaviors you just listed.
I don't condone that type of stuff as regular ongoing practices, but I also don't know of any upper level coach at that age working with in these guidelines at some point in time.
I don't live close to this area, nor do I have any ties to players, coaches, or associations. I can see the forest from the trees. This situation wreaks of a shady deal.
I don't condone that type of stuff as regular ongoing practices, but I also don't know of any upper level coach at that age working with in these guidelines at some point in time.
I don't live close to this area, nor do I have any ties to players, coaches, or associations. I can see the forest from the trees. This situation wreaks of a shady deal.
Coach
I really don't see the big deal. I don't believe these coaches sign multi-year contracts, so if a coach is not asked to return what is the problem. The board seemed to support the coach during the year and not force him to agree to Housley's demands. They let him finish the year and run the team the way he wanted.
The season is over, I'm guessing the board received feedback on the coach from many sources: players, parents, assistant coches, and the varsity coach. The board met and decided they felt it was in the best interest of the entire program to find a new A bantam coach. Where is the crime?
I'm guessing there are a lot of coaches in the state every year that are not asked to return. There doesn't need to be an appeals process, maybe if it was punishment for something done during the season, but not after the season. It's too bad, it sounds like a lot of people liked the coach. And if Housley tried to get him removed just because of where the captain was going to attend high school he was way out of line.
Also youth hockey boards can have 'closed meetings' when discussing personel matters. The general meetings are open to the public.
The season is over, I'm guessing the board received feedback on the coach from many sources: players, parents, assistant coches, and the varsity coach. The board met and decided they felt it was in the best interest of the entire program to find a new A bantam coach. Where is the crime?
I'm guessing there are a lot of coaches in the state every year that are not asked to return. There doesn't need to be an appeals process, maybe if it was punishment for something done during the season, but not after the season. It's too bad, it sounds like a lot of people liked the coach. And if Housley tried to get him removed just because of where the captain was going to attend high school he was way out of line.
Also youth hockey boards can have 'closed meetings' when discussing personel matters. The general meetings are open to the public.
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inthestands
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Cowboy, if this is the case--
The season is over, I'm guessing the board received feedback on the coach from many sources: players, parents, assistant coches, and the varsity coach. The board met and decided they felt it was in the best interest of the entire program to find a new A bantam coach. Where is the crime?
I would 100% agree with you. That doesn't "appear" to have happened, if the details listed above are even close to truthfull.
We'll never know, but stuff like this will keep message boards lit up for ever.
The season is over, I'm guessing the board received feedback on the coach from many sources: players, parents, assistant coches, and the varsity coach. The board met and decided they felt it was in the best interest of the entire program to find a new A bantam coach. Where is the crime?
I would 100% agree with you. That doesn't "appear" to have happened, if the details listed above are even close to truthfull.
We'll never know, but stuff like this will keep message boards lit up for ever.
Inthestands,
Most of the derogatory stories that are being posted here against the Stillwater Hockey Association are a stretch of the truth. Yes, the High School Coach was out of line by demanding that the Bantam coach changed who was appointed captain of the team. If the High School coaching were closer to the program from the start of his tenure this would not have happened. With that said, the A Bantam coach can not have an attitude that he will run his team the way he wants to. Like it or not the youth program is the feeder system for the High School. Yes, the High School coach should be overseeing the program and plays instituted, especially at the Bantam level. The Stillwater Hockey Association would be blatantly out of place to allow a Bantam coach to stay in position being adamant not to work with and institute the High Schools program. This is not just about who was appointed captain of the team and neither side is “Right”. Sometimes both parties need to go their separate ways to correct a problem. My understanding is this is occurring with in the association as well. It’s always easy to criticize form a distance…
Most of the derogatory stories that are being posted here against the Stillwater Hockey Association are a stretch of the truth. Yes, the High School Coach was out of line by demanding that the Bantam coach changed who was appointed captain of the team. If the High School coaching were closer to the program from the start of his tenure this would not have happened. With that said, the A Bantam coach can not have an attitude that he will run his team the way he wants to. Like it or not the youth program is the feeder system for the High School. Yes, the High School coach should be overseeing the program and plays instituted, especially at the Bantam level. The Stillwater Hockey Association would be blatantly out of place to allow a Bantam coach to stay in position being adamant not to work with and institute the High Schools program. This is not just about who was appointed captain of the team and neither side is “Right”. Sometimes both parties need to go their separate ways to correct a problem. My understanding is this is occurring with in the association as well. It’s always easy to criticize form a distance…
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inthestands
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Shooter, no criticism here. I'm just reading along with everyone else and giving opinions on what's posted.
This situation, and other infighting goes on in every association at one time or another. The key is finding the "right" solution that is best for the kids.
It's difficult to find a HS coach that can be as involved with the youth level teams, even at the bantam level. But yet that is the feeder system, as well all know. It's a bad cycle, doomed to repeat itself over and over. By the time the youth level coaches and board members figure out what works best, their kids are done and so is that set of volunteers. The next cycle starts, and the learning curve is pretty steep at the start.
As far as coaches go, it's not the hockey knowledge that is key. There are a lot of people that know hockey. It's the people managing skills that go along with that knowledge. And no this is not a comment directed toward any coaches in this thread, it is a comment in general.
This situation, and other infighting goes on in every association at one time or another. The key is finding the "right" solution that is best for the kids.
It's difficult to find a HS coach that can be as involved with the youth level teams, even at the bantam level. But yet that is the feeder system, as well all know. It's a bad cycle, doomed to repeat itself over and over. By the time the youth level coaches and board members figure out what works best, their kids are done and so is that set of volunteers. The next cycle starts, and the learning curve is pretty steep at the start.
As far as coaches go, it's not the hockey knowledge that is key. There are a lot of people that know hockey. It's the people managing skills that go along with that knowledge. And no this is not a comment directed toward any coaches in this thread, it is a comment in general.
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shoot to thrill
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My issue with the youth hockey Board has little to do with why they did it and more to do with how it was done. People have pointed out that the season was over and it is normal to have coaching changes. That may be true, but there was no rush to make the decision. It appears that this was done with very little input and not in a publicly announced planned meeting. These meetings are supposed to be open to the public, announced in well in advance so people can be there and have publicly stated agendas so people know what is going to be discussed. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
I agree BA hockey ends up feeding the H.S. program but youth hockey has to live by its rules which typically includes letting any resident of that city participate in their program (including ones that may be going to private schools in the future). The coach did the right thing by not overturning his teams pick for captain even though it meant having a future private school kid as captain.
It doesn't say, but it is likely that these kids all played together from mites through Bantams and this guy may have been their leader. Anyway, I would never encourage my kid to quit a team over something like this...that's a terrible lesson. Evidently, the Housley kid left shortly after this which is just plain wrong.
I agree BA hockey ends up feeding the H.S. program but youth hockey has to live by its rules which typically includes letting any resident of that city participate in their program (including ones that may be going to private schools in the future). The coach did the right thing by not overturning his teams pick for captain even though it meant having a future private school kid as captain.
It doesn't say, but it is likely that these kids all played together from mites through Bantams and this guy may have been their leader. Anyway, I would never encourage my kid to quit a team over something like this...that's a terrible lesson. Evidently, the Housley kid left shortly after this which is just plain wrong.
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all4hockey
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This entire situation was handled poorly from the start. There is no stretching of the truth here about what the Stillwater Hockey Board did. They did not follow procedural guidelines and even pretended to take people's input on how to make the decision about Coach Tolle. Less than 48 hours after the Tuesday night meeting, the traveling committee held a "secret" (no the public didn't know about it) meeting that was held in the early morning Thursday). Furthermore, the Pres of the assn used bullying tactics to "shut up" a traveling committee member who was in attendance at the Tuesday night meeting with statements, such as "watch yourself, be careful..... we're going to lose someone in this program if we don't make the "RIGHT" decision. Wow, if that's not a bully, I don't know what is.
If you want to get rid of a coach, fine, get rid of him. But don't parade all his past problems, issues, in front of the public and in numerous extremely nasty e-mails that went out to parents and board members. This kind of behavior is disgraceful. The leaders of this association and HS coach acted like children (some may argue, worse) in the captain situation. Big deal if a private school kid got voted captain; he had been skating in the assn for 8 years and his parents paid their fees and their taxes too in District 834. I have come to the conclusion that there is no "tolerance" for any kind of "diversity" in Stillwater. Kids have to be fearful if they know their parents are sending them to private schools later on down the line. That is just plain wrong.
Also, the high school program, like it or not, cannot technically be called a "feeder" program. The school district is not supplementing association fees. Whoever lives in District 834, regardless of school attendance, public or private, can skate in the association. Everyone pays the same fees. Also, Stillwater acts as if they are the only ones who lose kids to schools like Hill-Murray, STA, etc. It happens in every association and believe it or not, it's not always about hockey. Some families have sent their children to private schools for years. They don't just change their family traditions because Mr. Big-Wig has come to town and MIGHT have a good hockey program.
Finally, if this stuff has been "brewing" for years about Tolle, shame on you folks for not firing him sooner. Many board members allowed their kids to try out for his team! One actually skated for him for one season and his parents allowed him to try out for another season. He made the team and skated with them for a partial season before being disciplined for poor behavior. If the coach was that bad, the parents should have not allowed these kids to even try out for his team.
It is so painfully obvious here that this coach was fired for having the INTEGRITY to stand up for what was right in the captain situation. It wasn't because he didn't go along with the "system" of the high school coach. He had been coaching 12 years! Please. It is also embarrassingly apparent that board members sided with Housley in the decision to fire the coach so their kids could skate for him at the high school level. In this particular case, the bully and his minions won.
If you want to get rid of a coach, fine, get rid of him. But don't parade all his past problems, issues, in front of the public and in numerous extremely nasty e-mails that went out to parents and board members. This kind of behavior is disgraceful. The leaders of this association and HS coach acted like children (some may argue, worse) in the captain situation. Big deal if a private school kid got voted captain; he had been skating in the assn for 8 years and his parents paid their fees and their taxes too in District 834. I have come to the conclusion that there is no "tolerance" for any kind of "diversity" in Stillwater. Kids have to be fearful if they know their parents are sending them to private schools later on down the line. That is just plain wrong.
Also, the high school program, like it or not, cannot technically be called a "feeder" program. The school district is not supplementing association fees. Whoever lives in District 834, regardless of school attendance, public or private, can skate in the association. Everyone pays the same fees. Also, Stillwater acts as if they are the only ones who lose kids to schools like Hill-Murray, STA, etc. It happens in every association and believe it or not, it's not always about hockey. Some families have sent their children to private schools for years. They don't just change their family traditions because Mr. Big-Wig has come to town and MIGHT have a good hockey program.
Finally, if this stuff has been "brewing" for years about Tolle, shame on you folks for not firing him sooner. Many board members allowed their kids to try out for his team! One actually skated for him for one season and his parents allowed him to try out for another season. He made the team and skated with them for a partial season before being disciplined for poor behavior. If the coach was that bad, the parents should have not allowed these kids to even try out for his team.
It is so painfully obvious here that this coach was fired for having the INTEGRITY to stand up for what was right in the captain situation. It wasn't because he didn't go along with the "system" of the high school coach. He had been coaching 12 years! Please. It is also embarrassingly apparent that board members sided with Housley in the decision to fire the coach so their kids could skate for him at the high school level. In this particular case, the bully and his minions won.
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skatehardordie
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stillwater coach
can someone post the letter that housley sent out?
I agree that Housley should not have pulled his kid up to the J.V. team. That is just Housley abusing his position. There are many dynamics involved with this whole situation. Its “muddy” water to say the least. I do not support what Housley did with his kid or how he handled the coaches appointing of the A Bantam captain.
Most of the subject matter needs to go beyond the superficial problems from this one season. Stop and take a look at this “Traveling Committee.” This committee is made up of 6 board members. 3 are from the Stillwater Area Hockey Association (selected by the President with a 2 year term) and 3 from the St. Mary’s Point Hockey Association (selected by the President with NO term limitation) First, Why a traveling committee? What is wrong with the SAHA board members? If they are incapable of serving on the board then that should be pointed out at the nomination of said person up for election. Second, why is ½ of it comprised of such a small area of the association that at most is 1/16 of the total skaters? Some might say it is because of what transpired in the past and what one person from that area did for the association years ago. This does not mean that we should hold to the archaic ways of how this committee has been comprised.
If you are truly intrigued by this situation I suggest that you go to the Associations website and take a look at the “Traveling Hockey Guidelines” they have. The President of the SAHA is a NON-VOTING MEMBER. Its gives you an insight on how this all transpired with the Bantam coach. Those of us with younger kids skating in this association can only hope there is an overhaul soon.…
Most of the subject matter needs to go beyond the superficial problems from this one season. Stop and take a look at this “Traveling Committee.” This committee is made up of 6 board members. 3 are from the Stillwater Area Hockey Association (selected by the President with a 2 year term) and 3 from the St. Mary’s Point Hockey Association (selected by the President with NO term limitation) First, Why a traveling committee? What is wrong with the SAHA board members? If they are incapable of serving on the board then that should be pointed out at the nomination of said person up for election. Second, why is ½ of it comprised of such a small area of the association that at most is 1/16 of the total skaters? Some might say it is because of what transpired in the past and what one person from that area did for the association years ago. This does not mean that we should hold to the archaic ways of how this committee has been comprised.
If you are truly intrigued by this situation I suggest that you go to the Associations website and take a look at the “Traveling Hockey Guidelines” they have. The President of the SAHA is a NON-VOTING MEMBER. Its gives you an insight on how this all transpired with the Bantam coach. Those of us with younger kids skating in this association can only hope there is an overhaul soon.…
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wannagototherink
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Right that old tyrant. He is so scary that a large amound of his former players showed up to support him at the legit board meeting. Come on, I'm sure he has gotten a bit surley over the years, but one of his jobs is to establish who is in charge of that hockey club. The bottom line is if you coach long enough you are going to make some enemies. I think that goes without saying. But when a majority of the kids that come through his program talk of the wonderful experience they had, I don't care who says what, that is a good coach and he deserved better.Shooter75 wrote:There are ALWAYS two sides to every story. What about the uncontrolled, unruly side of Mark. The side that screams in a players face, locks players out of the locker room, benches players for their parents asking questions, and let’s not forget his blatant disregard for anyone’s opinion and lack of respect for the Stillwater hockey association. Mark needed a reality check and now he has it. This has been building for a few years and this years actions were just the point of no return....
"I've never seen a dumb-bell score a goal!" ~Gretter
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fanatichockeyguy
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Sounds to me like Housley and the committee made a stupid decision. I think the people on the traveling board will all do anything to get their kids on the varsity team. Too bad for the Hill kid, he got smashed for just attending a private school. And Housley will no doubt be gone in three years anyway, so why suck up to him so much. I know that Stillwater had a good bantam team this year, i watched and thought they had a good bond and played very well as a team, but form what i've heard they're losing their 3 best players, only Housley and the High school team will suffer from that.
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Hockeyguy_27
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The Stillwater hockey board sounds an awful like the Stillwater Skulls secret society. Boards are supposed to follow due process otherwise they can open up an ugly can of worms which appears what has happened here.fanatichockeyguy wrote:Sounds to me like Housley and the committee made a stupid decision. I think the people on the traveling board will all do anything to get their kids on the varsity team. Too bad for the Hill kid, he got smashed for just attending a private school. And Housley will no doubt be gone in three years anyway, so why suck up to him so much. I know that Stillwater had a good bantam team this year, i watched and thought they had a good bond and played very well as a team, but form what i've heard they're losing their 3 best players, only Housley and the High school team will suffer from that.
banish the bantor
For those of you that think you are in the know because of posted statements on this blog that are "supposedly true" you are reading editorial comments not facts. If Offtohockey had their facts straight, you would know that no kid repeatedly "kicked" anybody and the meeting the traveling committee had to determine the fate of coach Tollefsbol was not a witch hunt or secret meeting.
If you ask the coach that was recently let go why he was relieved of his job as coach, if he is honest, he will tell you that it had very little to do with the kid from Hill being named a captain. His comments he used to support his decision were personal and attaching toward coach Housley. The traveling committee will tell you that they intended to release mark more than once in the past for his actions and comments that were inappropriate toward his players.
Every Bantam A coach in the state will tell you that it is imperative that they have a open, honest and strong communication based relationship with their high school coach-Not the Hill Murray coach. This decision was best for the Stillwater Hockey associaton,growth of the Stillwater High School program and the kids.
If you ask the coach that was recently let go why he was relieved of his job as coach, if he is honest, he will tell you that it had very little to do with the kid from Hill being named a captain. His comments he used to support his decision were personal and attaching toward coach Housley. The traveling committee will tell you that they intended to release mark more than once in the past for his actions and comments that were inappropriate toward his players.
Every Bantam A coach in the state will tell you that it is imperative that they have a open, honest and strong communication based relationship with their high school coach-Not the Hill Murray coach. This decision was best for the Stillwater Hockey associaton,growth of the Stillwater High School program and the kids.
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inthestands
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Hockeyguy_27
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Re: "kid"?
I was getting the "Doogie Howser" vibe as well. Who knows but seriously, what happens to some people when they become members of hockey boards? I've seen this for years--seemingly normal adults get empowered as a result of their board elections and turn in to completely obnoxious, arrogant A-holesjackstraw wrote:Irrelevant to the coaching situation, but hckykid's prose would lend itself more to an adult making those point's. Is this more deception or just a very well versed "kid"?
People you are members of hockey boards, not the Joint Chiefs.hckykid
Doogie here! Not quite sure why anyone would read into the screen name, if are you interested in who I am, just ask. remember, I had to answer the question that I am over 13 yrs old and my purpose was to post statements that are true and factual. Thats all.
People printing false information is what created this crazy mess in the first place. We ask that the other A bantam coaches in the state reconsider their ban on inviting this program to preferred tournaments, don't make the kids suffer.
People printing false information is what created this crazy mess in the first place. We ask that the other A bantam coaches in the state reconsider their ban on inviting this program to preferred tournaments, don't make the kids suffer.
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all4hockey
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No, Doogie - Mr. Housley's interference in the captain issue is what started this mess, not false information on this board. This topic wouldn't exist if he had managed to control himself and act as an adult. I agree with you on one point - it is unfortunate that A Bantam coaches want to ban Stillwater from participating in some high-end tourneys. However, I think the reasoning behind this is that otherwise the SAHA board will suffer no consequences from their absurd decision to oust Mark. You forget, Mark has run into a lot of coaches through the years. People don't forget when others trash and stomp on their friends.
i have a suggestion
The best resolution would be for these 2 guys to work out their differences and maybe Mark can be Housleys assistant with the high school next year. If they were friends prior to this mess, fix it and move on.
Actually, I think the best resolution to this situation and all the similar ones that are in the associations would be for the AAU to develop a full scale hockey program in MN. Then people could vote with their feet rather than have to deal with the monopoly that exists now. Associations and their boards would have to live by their bylaws as well as actually provide a product that people would want to use.
Shuck the puck!!!
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runingwithechukchi
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I agree USA Hockey needs to mandate to the local level as to what they can and can't do. At least have a reason for getting rid of a coach. If a coach is more qualified thats one thing but the more I see of the way local associations handle coaches the less I like of it. I was displaced by a level 2 coach with 1 year experience he was the President with friends on the selection committee. I had a level 4 coaches card and had been coaching since 1979. Guess who got the job? not me, reason? Over qualified, guess I was, now coaching at the High School level, he Squirts. This problem isn't unique, it is going on state wide. USA Hockey and MNHOCKEY had better address it soon or AAU hockey may just step in and take over.
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Pucknutz69
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Yeah lets put more red tape into hockey and let USA hockey have a say or even Mn Hockey. Bottom line is the SAHA board did what they thought was right and best for thier association. Last time I checked he was a Volunteer coach I am sure he could go volunteer at another local association. This kind of thing has happened in many associations the only difference is someone aired thier dirty laundry here.
Housley voiced his opinion about the captian choice and what he thought should happen. He made a choice by moving his son to the HS program smart move if they would have stayed it could have been a bigger problem. The people that should be critcized the most are these board members that can't think for themselves. You can't tell me some of them aren't thinking " Hmmm if I get rid of this coach maybe Coach Housley will return the favor and put my B Bantam son on the first line of his Varsity program?"
Housley voiced his opinion about the captian choice and what he thought should happen. He made a choice by moving his son to the HS program smart move if they would have stayed it could have been a bigger problem. The people that should be critcized the most are these board members that can't think for themselves. You can't tell me some of them aren't thinking " Hmmm if I get rid of this coach maybe Coach Housley will return the favor and put my B Bantam son on the first line of his Varsity program?"