Pioneer Press All State Team

HockShock · Post by **HockShock** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:44 pm

Alex is a team that can be competative but cant come through for a victory obviously, losing is losing, whether it is by a goal or by 10 goals, even in an overtime, so thats what the press is looking at. Its not ridiculous they know what they are doing, one or two players might have been applicable but 4-5, no way

pondhockey · Post by **pondhockey** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:23 am

Sioux Rule wrote: As I said earlier, when Alex was ranked #2, they should not have been! Alex has some real nice players, but they definately play a weak schedule. Until they start playing a tougher schedule, they are not going to fair well down at the state tournament. They went 0-2 this year. I believe they're overall record at state is like 1-8. You don't get recognition by losing close games, you get recognition by winning close games. Alex definately deserved some players on the Pioneer Press, no doubt about it.

After half a second of being surprised that not any of the Alex girls weren't on PP's list, I was over it. Rankings can be misleading due to a number of different factors and lists of Dream Teams are subject to opinion & bias. Having said that, I have to basically agree with what you wrote Sioux Rule. Keep in mind that it was doubtfull to some at the beginning of the season that the Cardinals were going to have a successful team after losing 12 Seniors to graduation last year; which by the way was the Third Place team - no shame in that. It left them a very young team and the AD made the decision for a weaker schedule based on that. They still made it to the State tournament and congratulations to them! Next year I'm sure we'll all enjoy watching them play more a competitive schedule.

GOCARDS1 · Post by **GOCARDS1** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:41 pm

sioux rules, which by the way, they dont, because the scsu huskies do. But anyways, im pretty sure im right on this, they still are ranked number 2, so your statement is wrong. And to our 0-2 record at state this year, I would like to see Crookston come out of the section of the draw that alex is and still be around to brag about it. Breck and Hibbing are both good teams that Crookston could have lost to. But, instead, you play marshal, a team that got outscored 12-0 in 2 state games. So basically, you should be thankful that you had a chance to get into the winners bracket right off the bat. Had we beat hibbing, which could have easily happened, the tournament would have been a totally different story. Although the pioneer press All-state list probably would have remained the same because they obviously didn't even look at Alexandria, because they included FOUR fergus falls players. A team that alex beat easily, 3 times.
To the person who said Alex deserves 1, maybe 2 players on the list. That is just a ridiculous comment if you have looked at the list, because alexandria has about 5-6 players that are better than Fergus Falls' best player.

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:34 pm

GOCARDS1 wrote:Breck and Hibbing are both good teams

I agree that Hibbing is a good team, and that was a close game, and a tough draw to open the tourney, but I'm not sure that Breck is a good team. They are in a similiar situation as Alex, as they played a pretty weak schedule, so it's hard to tell how good they are. They had 0 quality wins and were 0-4 against quality teams with a combined 3 losses and outscored 0-12 by blake. If Alex is as good as you say, they should've handled a slightly better than average Breck team.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:54 pm

allhoc11 wrote:
GOCARDS1 wrote:Breck and Hibbing are both good teams
I agree that Hibbing is a good team, and that was a close game, and a tough draw to open the tourney, but I'm not sure that Breck is a good team. They are in a similiar situation as Alex, as they played a pretty weak schedule, so it's hard to tell how good they are. They had 0 quality wins and were 0-4 against quality teams with a combined 3 losses and outscored 0-12 by blake. If Alex is as good as you say, they should've handled a slightly better than average Breck team.

I think Breck is a better team than most think they have a very young squad with some very talented 7-9th graders that have joined the team this year.
They played a pretty good game against Blake the shots were equal the main thing that seperated the two was the goal tending,
for breck it was not steller that day,

dumpandchase · Post by **dumpandchase** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:57 pm

GOCARDS1 wrote:sioux rules, which by the way, they dont, because the scsu huskies do. But anyways, im pretty sure im right on this, they still are ranked number 2, so your statement is wrong. And to our 0-2 record at state this year, I would like to see Crookston come out of the section of the draw that alex is and still be around to brag about it. Breck and Hibbing are both good teams that Crookston could have lost to. But, instead, you play marshal, a team that got outscored 12-0 in 2 state games. So basically, you should be thankful that you had a chance to get into the winners bracket right off the bat. Had we beat hibbing, which could have easily happened, the tournament would have been a totally different story. Although the pioneer press All-state list probably would have remained the same because they obviously didn't even look at Alexandria, because they included FOUR fergus falls players. A team that alex beat easily, 3 times.
To the person who said Alex deserves 1, maybe 2 players on the list. That is just a ridiculous comment if you have looked at the list, because alexandria has about 5-6 players that are better than Fergus Falls' best player.

Just a couple of things for you to think about GOCARDS1

1. You have absolutely nothing to complain about with the first round draw of Crookston because they had to get by Roseau and Warroad to get there. Both ranked in the top 10. Nice job beating Willmar and Fergus Falls. Not quite the same. It's about time you played somebody tough.

2. More than likely the reason Alexandria didn't get kids on the list is because it is impossible to find stats on there kids. Do you really expect a group of people who cover St. Paul to have a clue about your kids without there stats out there someplace easy to find.

3. Crookston beat you in the regular season and beat Hibbing twice this year including for the 3rd place trophy. If you would have gotten by Hibbing the only thing that would have been different is Crookston would have beat you in the 3rd place game instead of Hibbing. But you would still find something to complain about.

4. It was the luck of the draw, next year it won't be the same way. By the way without the transfers coming into Alexandria last year you probably still would have gone to state but people would probably be complaining that Hibbing had it way to easy getting into the winners bracket, just like you're complaining about Crookston.

5. Maybe the Pioneer Press was looking for your kids under Little Falls, or Wadena/Deer Creek.

6. I do agree Abby Williams is wonderful, Ashley Holmes is good, and so is Danielle Justice.

7. If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.

GOCARDS1 · Post by **GOCARDS1** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:08 pm

haha dumpandchase,
that post was probably meant to be offensive and informative. And I agree, it was. But it also made me laugh.
-Alex doesn't care about their stats, which im sure most teams, *cough* crookston*, probably do.
-How can you assume those kind of things? Hibbing lost to Crookston both times very close. Hibbing outshot Crookston the second time. Both losses were empty net situations. You just can't say those kind of things because Alex could have definately beat them in a 3rd place game. They were very close to beating them in the reg. season as well. So go ahead and say they would have won, but I think that is a bit overconfident.
-Transfers or not, the Hibbing-ALexandria game would have still been very competitive.
-Why would the Pioneer Press look for kids under Wadena/Deer Creek, there aren't any members on the Alexandria team from WDC. Get your facts straight and stop making false accusations trying to bring down the Alex team.

dumpandchase · Post by **dumpandchase** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:35 pm

Let me respond.

If you care about getting kids opportunities you sell them. The best way to do that is through stats. And boy is it tough to put them on the High School League Website.

I backed my assumptions up with facts. You saying that if you got into the winners bracket it would have changed everything. That is a pretty big assumption.

Talking to coaches who played Alex they said they thought they'd have a chance against you this year, until a couple of extra kids showed up. Between you and Warroad you're giving the outstate a bad reputation.

Your #4. Was on the the Wadena/Deer Creek, Long Prairie/Grey Eagle, Browerville Roster the past 3 years. So maybe she is from Browerville.
But my facts are right.

I don't need to make false accusations to bring them down. The truth hurts much more.

The worst part about it is I like the Alexandria kids. They are nice kids, I'm not trying to bring them down but when people like you get on this board and complain about everything under the sun it hurts your kids more than it helps them. If you would volunteer 1/2 the time you spend on this board to putting the Alexandria stats on the different outlets that are available to put them on we would not be having this discussion right now.

nothernewguy · Post by **nothernewguy** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:37 pm

Don't know how anyone can take any list the Pioneer Press does seriously. There will always be a few fine teams missing from any list but the PP just leaves me shaking my head

GOCARDS1 · Post by **GOCARDS1** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:46 pm

ya i agree northernewguy.
I didn't expect this to erupt from me saying that alexandria deserves quite a few players on this list. But hey, it did.
Dumpandchase, I dont mind stats, I am in favor of them. But i dont have any affiliations with the Alex coaches so how am I supposed to get stats.
- the getting into the winners bracket would have meant being in the top 4, rather then being out in 2 games. It would have been much more uplifting for the Alex players who had such a successful season. Thats what I meant.
- 2 kids did show up in Alex, can Alex control that, NO. Did it help them? yes.
- Im not really complaining or bringing down players( or at least not trying to), im just talkin hockey with other people who are willing to discuss and chat about girl's hockey

xwildfan · Post by **xwildfan** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:47 pm

Does anyone from the PP ever go to a regular season game?

nothernewguy · Post by **nothernewguy** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:49 pm

xwildfan wrote:Does anyone from the PP ever go to a regular season game?

Can't imagine they do, would love to see them prove it

dumpandchase · Post by **dumpandchase** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:21 pm

GOCARDS1 wrote:ya i agree northernewguy.
I didn't expect this to erupt from me saying that alexandria deserves quite a few players on this list. But hey, it did.
Dumpandchase, I dont mind stats, I am in favor of them. But i dont have any affiliations with the Alex coaches so how am I supposed to get stats.
- the getting into the winners bracket would have meant being in the top 4, rather then being out in 2 games. It would have been much more uplifting for the Alex players who had such a successful season. Thats what I meant.
- 2 kids did show up in Alex, can Alex control that, NO. Did it help them? yes.
- Im not really complaining or bringing down players( or at least not trying to), im just talkin hockey with other people who are willing to discuss and chat about girl's hockey

It is the coaches responsibility to get stats up, if they can't do it they should get someone to do it. If it still doesn't happen someone should ask if they can help out. I would have loved to have known that Abby Williams had over 90 points on the year but it wasn't publicized at all.

I don't appreciate you telling me to get my facts straight on one post and then agreeing with me on another without mentioning that I was right.

I don't blame Alexandria for letting kids play that come in by the rules, every kid deserves a chance to play. I just don't like it and am glad the High School League is doing something about it.

It is more a problem with the kids. I do have a tough time cheering for a kid who would turn her back on her friends to go someplace else. And it is a slap in the face to all the people, coaches, and boosters who put time and effort into improving a kid just to see them move on to somewhere else.

I think I would have a tough time cheering for a team that has a kid come in to play hockey.

That is why I enjoy Crookston. All homegrown kids, came up through the youth program. Had a Miss Goalie Finalist leave before the year and go to Bemidji. So they threw in the next ones in line: one who started playing last year, and one who sat out last year with a knee injury. That is what high school athletics is about, playing with your friends, playing for your community, and going out and competing hard, with whoever you have. Some years you'll be down, some years you'll be up but you're teaching life lessons. And I'm pretty sure the Crookston Girls learned a lot more about themselves and what they are capable of because of the adversity they faced. They will be better because they all had to step to the next level, not stay where they were and rely on someone coming in to help them.

By the way, Crookston still won 2 games in the State Tournament, in there 4th year as a program. I think they deserve a little bit of credit, not just complaining that they had an easy game in the first round.

Sioux Rule · Post by **Sioux Rule** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:50 pm

GOCARDS1 wrote:sioux rules, which by the way, they dont, because the scsu huskies do. But anyways, im pretty sure im right on this, they still are ranked number 2, so your statement is wrong. And to our 0-2 record at state this year, I would like to see Crookston come out of the section of the draw that alex is and still be around to brag about it. Breck and Hibbing are both good teams that Crookston could have lost to. But, instead, you play marshal, a team that got outscored 12-0 in 2 state games. So basically, you should be thankful that you had a chance to get into the winners bracket right off the bat. Had we beat hibbing, which could have easily happened, the tournament would have been a totally different story. Although the pioneer press All-state list probably would have remained the same because they obviously didn't even look at Alexandria, because they included FOUR fergus falls players. A team that alex beat easily, 3 times.
To the person who said Alex deserves 1, maybe 2 players on the list. That is just a ridiculous comment if you have looked at the list, because alexandria has about 5-6 players that are better than Fergus Falls' best player.

I can't argue with SCSU rules, they are a fun team to watch. All I can say is UND has alot more national championship banners hanging from the rafters than does SCSU. End of story.
Talking to you on this forum is almost funny. You won't admit to FACTS at all. How, with a straight face, can you say Alex should be ranked #2 right now? You like to mention how Hibbing outshot Crookston in the 3rd place game. The shots were like 22 to 20, in favor of Hibbing, and Crookston WON. When Hibbing and Alex played, Hibbing outshot them 51-23!!!!!!
You call that close!! Alex, of course, lost.
Let me put this in a nutshell for you. Crookston beat Alex and Hibbing twice. Alex lost to Hibbing and Crookston.
I'm sure you'll come back with some, "we played such and such really close, but lost".....

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:57 pm

If it was all about playing close games but losing I'd be the best coach ever! Unfortunately though, it's only about winning. For this reason, Blake is #1 in A and Stillwater is #1 in AA. From there, you can debate, but you have to give state some weight I'm afraid.

GOCARDS1 · Post by **GOCARDS1** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:23 pm

True about UND, I guess im just a SCSU fan and they have been doing well in recent years. I'm not saying they should be ranked number two NOW, obviously, they lost 2 games at state. But Im just saying that they are ranked 2 right now by LPH and have been for most of the end of the season. Alex got outshot a majority of times but won the game, as a fan of alex, i know when a game is close or not. Moorhead and Bemidji both outshot alex, but the final outcome was 5-2 both times. Strong goaltending and highscoring offense help with being outshot, so it sort of balances out.
"Alex, of course, lost"...
you act like it was inevitable, Alex had 2 breakaways and many point-blank scoring chances and didnt score. It could have gone either way.

I do give credit to Crookston. They're tough. Every shift, either E. Wheelhouse or Wangen is out there. Most teams dont have that, it must be nice.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:33 pm

ghshockeyfan wrote:If it was all about playing close games but losing I'd be the best coach ever! Unfortunately though, it's only about winning. For this reason, Blake is #1 in A and Stillwater is #1 in AA. From there, you can debate, but you have to give state some weight I'm afraid.

I assume here you are talking about the "human" polls, not KRACH...

Puck Penguin · Post by **Puck Penguin** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:47 pm

I say put Alex in a tougher section and see if they wind up at State every year still... Oh, and Alex must be something about stats because for over 90% of the season they play an easy schedule and end up scoring in the double digits. 8 games where 8+ goals are scored... Yeah, definatly don't go for stats there. And no one can get out of that one by saying coaches have no control over the teams they play, because everyone who is part of Minnesota hockey knows they do. Yes, there are certain games you have to play, but coaches can control how many times a team plays certain teams.

Sioux Rule · Post by **Sioux Rule** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:48 pm

GOCARDS1 wrote:True about UND, I guess im just a SCSU fan and they have been doing well in recent years. I'm not saying they should be ranked number two NOW, obviously, they lost 2 games at state. But Im just saying that they are ranked 2 right now by LPH and have been for most of the end of the season. Alex got outshot a majority of times but won the game, as a fan of alex, i know when a game is close or not. Moorhead and Bemidji both outshot alex, but the final outcome was 5-2 both times. Strong goaltending and highscoring offense help with being outshot, so it sort of balances out.
"Alex, of course, lost"...
you act like it was inevitable, Alex had 2 breakaways and many point-blank scoring chances and didnt score. It could have gone either way.

I do give credit to Crookston. They're tough. Every shift, either E. Wheelhouse or Wangen is out there. Most teams dont have that, it must be nice.

Kudo's to SCSU......they womped the rodents last weekend. I was the biggest SCSU fan out there last weekend!!

Alex has Holmes on D.......she's good, she should double shift while out there.

I can think of 3, "for sures," from Alex that should of been on the Pioneer Press all state team.

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:59 pm

The only rank that means anything is the state championship. Everything else is guesswork. The team that wins the championship is number one, end of story. Polls are just guesses, hopes and dreams.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:07 pm

Will the Star Trib do their own?

Stinkin Rootbeer · Post by **Stinkin Rootbeer** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:22 pm

What about Anne Schleper from St Cloud Apollo..One of the best D in the state..she isn't on the list

Icall · Post by **Icall** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:01 pm

Startribune has All Metro, announced the Tuesday of the State Tournament week.
Pioneer Press Has All State, announced the week after the State Tournament.
Associated Press has All State, announced the week after the State Tournament or the next week.
Coaches Association has All State, announced at the Ms. Hockey banquet.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:23 pm

Icall wrote:Startribune has All Metro, announced the Tuesday of the State Tournament week.
Pioneer Press Has All State, announced the week after the State Tournament.
Associated Press has All State, announced the week after the State Tournament or the next week.
Coaches Association has All State, announced at the Ms. Hockey banquet.

Which reminds me...

If you want to know the real "elite" group, just look for the kids that are mentioned on all or 3-of-4 of these lists. That is the equivalent of what boys all-state teams were many years ago I assume when they only named a select 5-10-15 kids very tops??? Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Pioneer Press All State Team

Breck

Re: Breck