How many?

[northlandpro]

How many skilled players does it take to make up a top 10 girls team? Class A = 7 Class AA = 10? I am not saying that all players are not important it just seems like you can be a top 10 contender in girls hockey with less depth.

[ghshockeyfan]

How many skilled players does it take to make up a top 10 girls team? Class A = 7 Class AA = 10? I am not saying that all players are not important it just seems like you can be a top 10 contender in girls hockey with less depth.

The best criteria I can think of is looking at the number of NDP level players needed to make this happen - i.e. a top ranked team.

Class A differs greatly from AA. I would say a couple or few Phase 1+ kids and you'd have a shot at being a top 20 team in A with a decent supporting cast of experienced players.

Class AA, you'd need far more than what you'd need for A. I would say 5+ P1+, hopefully a couple or few P2+ kids if not a Lake Placid/Rochester NY levle kid or two... Of course, a goalie of the top level can make nearly any team competitive, but you still need to score to win...

[ice29]

Let us all remember that the initial difference between A and AA is the # of student enrollment. Thus the larger #'s, the more Ph1 palyers. O course, this is the start of a program. From there you can take-up all the variables that are talk about in many of these thread.

A Top 20 A team that beats a Top 10 AA is still not as good, as quite a few threads keep repeating.

WHY????

[northlandpro]

Good point ghs, a top level tender in girls hockey can really make a difference in the win & loss columns. Even more so than in boys hockey.

[ghshockeyfan]

Let us all remember that the initial difference between A and AA is the # of student enrollment. Thus the larger #'s, the more Ph1 palyers. O course, this is the start of a program. From there you can take-up all the variables that are talk about in many of these thread.

A Top 20 A team that beats a Top 10 AA is still not as good, as quite a few threads keep repeating.

WHY????

I think that most agree that there is a huge difference between most Class A and AA programs in the quality of hockey. I think this is a product of the fact that most A schools aren't talent-filled privates or OE-built publics. Usually, Class A programs are homegrown small-school community-based teams, and unless a huge effort has been made by a community to get hockey participation up to a level participant wise on par with an AA school you just can't expect that AA and A teams will compete on the same level. Now, there are exceptions. From time-to-time an A school will develop some amazing players or a huge effort at youth results in large participation #'s which in turn create a top A team. Of course, the other way that we see A teams that can compete at the AA level is if privates can attract a disproportionate amount of talented players to a small private school, or also if we see an A school that can attract many OE's. Sometimes, you can even get a situation where an A school has both the OE & internal/youth players working in their favor and in that case you can have a dynasty like team and has happened - but this is extremely rare.

Bottom line is that when you look at even the computer ranking there are very few Class A teams that are even in the top 25 overall in the state (of Class A & AA together). Right now there are only 12 Class A teams in the top 50 overall in the state (this is why an average team would make a top 20 A team).

2 of the top 4 A teams are privates on this list, and the rest are usually N MN A teams or metro small school teams. From there, you have a mix in this 12 of a growing SE metro community that will likely be AA before long, a SE power that has the benefit of a few amazing OE's after also having some amazing homegrown talent. An interesting mix, but I'd still much prefer to see tiers to classes as that would best accomplish the MSHSL's goal re: two tourneys...

[ghshockeyfan]

Good point ghs, a top level tender in girls hockey can really make a difference in the win & loss columns. Even more so than in boys hockey.

I should also add that most solid goaltenders in G Hockey can usually play a level above their age as a youth and sometimes that may be best for their development. I know that some too believe that it's a good idea to bring out boys to shoot on goalies but I don't know if that's always best as I've found that can screw-up a goalies reaction time vs their peers in games? Makes them better, but maybe too quick for their own level sometimes??? This is often why I don't shoot on my goaltenders regularly at practice at full strength either.

[hockeygod]

The minimum Quality players I would say you need to build a contender is 5. you need a great goalie that will do tricks for you. two high quality d and two Forwards that can put the puck in the net you can fill in the rest with fairly good role players by coaching them to play agrresive and being relentless backcheckers the key to a team like that would be your roleplayer though because all it takes is a couple slip ups and then all is lost and it would take an awesome coach who could communicate the importance of the role players

[xk1]

you can fill in the rest with fairly good role players

This is the most under rated aspect of any winning team, without them the other 5 you mentioned won't go far. They may get some pretty numbers but usually come up short in the win column.

[hockeygod]

Herb Brooks was better with the role players than he was with the stars because he was able to make them feel that they were the most important players on the ice. getting this across. to the kids and making them believe it is the key to any success in Sports. The stars hear how wonderful they are from everyone in there life, they don't need that from coaches too. where for the most part a role player dosn't hear that to much so when the coaches stresses there importance it really brings there play up a notch or two

[Sioux Rule]

How many skilled players does it take to make up a top 10 girls team? Class A = 7 Class AA = 10? I am not saying that all players are not important it just seems like you can be a top 10 contender in girls hockey with less depth.

The number of skilled players required depends on how "skilled" the skilled players are, and how "skilled" the role (don't like that term) players are. Another consideration is that there are alot of players bubbled between, "skilled" and "role" (don't like that term).
I agree, in girls hockey, goaltending can definately take you a long ways......

[hockeygod]

when I say "skill" players i refer to players that can play one or two levels above there age. When i say "role" players I mean a good solid player for there age group. I know what you mean about hating those terms but I don't know any way to simplify it more.

[ghshockeyfan]

when I say "skill" players i refer to players that can play one or two levels above there age. When i say "role" players I mean a good solid player for there age group. I know what you mean about hating those terms but I don't know any way to simplify it more.

I read this idea of skill vs role players and it led me to ask myself a simple question that's interesting...

So, when you have 7th & 8th graders comprising over half of your Varsity as I do are they skill or role players? My guess is that in my case these are more role players at the V level at such a young age, but in the relative sense to their own age group they're highly skilled...

I woudl define those groups the same way, but it's just a little odd in the context of my current team as really then I have a bunch of young skilled players that are role players at the V level.

My favorite quote was overhearing two of them talking and one of them saying "think how good we'll be in 2011 & 2012!"

[hockeygod]

i see them as role players that will grow into skill players. I've watched your teams play, they are small and young but they are very aggresive and do alot of things right. They will be awesome when they get older if they keep there heads up, continue to push themselves to be better and keep a positive attitude and for whats it's worth I wish that my daughter could play for you because I feel that your a coach that is teaching kids to play the right way

[northlandpro]

How many skilled players does it take to make up a top 10 girls team? Class A = 7 Class AA = 10? I am not saying that all players are not important it just seems like you can be a top 10 contender in girls hockey with less depth.

The number of skilled players required depends on how "skilled" the skilled players are, and how "skilled" the role (don't like that term) players are. Another consideration is that there are alot of players bubbled between, "skilled" and "role" (don't like that term).
I agree, in girls hockey, goaltending can definately take you a long ways......

Is it just me or could you please restate yourself in English

[ghshockeyfan]

i see them as role players that will grow into skill players. I've watched your teams play, they are small and young but they are very aggresive and do alot of things right. They will be awesome when they get older if they keep there heads up, continue to push themselves to be better and keep a positive attitude and for whats it's worth I wish that my daughter could play for you because I feel that your a coach that is teaching kids to play the right way

Thanks & I agree about the thought that they should continue to grow into skill players at the HS level as they reach that age. Of course, there are no guarantees as far as this happening, even if they work very hard, have the best coaching, etc. Of course, we don't play now for the future either contrary to some beliefs in our community right now. That being said, I'm hoping to see this through this time, but we'll see - last time I wasn't so fortunate... I have to get through 2007 first, and then hope to see 2008-2010 through before coming into big years in 2010-2012... By then though I expect Simley will be an AA school with much growth anticipated in the NW area now that land the size of WSP (within IGH) has opened for development for the first time - but not sure that all that will feed IGH vs. Eagan/WSP school districts even though it's all in IGH.

[Sioux Rule]

How many skilled players does it take to make up a top 10 girls team? Class A = 7 Class AA = 10? I am not saying that all players are not important it just seems like you can be a top 10 contender in girls hockey with less depth.

The number of skilled players required depends on how "skilled" the skilled players are, and how "skilled" the role (don't like that term) players are. Another consideration is that there are alot of players bubbled between, "skilled" and "role" (don't like that term).
I agree, in girls hockey, goaltending can definately take you a long ways......

Is it just me or could you please restate yourself in English

Northland???......read between the lines, then ask for help.

[finance_gal]

Like any school with a young team Simley is going through some growing pains, It's tough on a girl who finds herself playing varsity hockey when she's in 7th grade and all of the sudden she's not a superstar. but I think it's even tougher on the parent who's daughter isn't scoring anymore after she tore up the U14 level. Parents just don't understand the jump their kid has just made to varsity and look for an easy target to blame and that happens to the coach. Keep your chin up ghs, my daughter plays for a private school and we would be more than happy to have you coaching our team. Simley is lucky to have you.

[ghshockeyfan]

Like any school with a young team Simley is going through some growing pains, It's tough on a girl who finds herself playing varsity hockey when she's in 7th grade and all of the sudden she's not a superstar. but I think it's even tougher on the parent who's daughter isn't scoring anymore after she tore up the U14 level. Parents just don't understand the jump their kid has just made to varsity and look for an easy target to blame and that happens to the coach. Keep your chin up ghs, my daughter plays for a private school and we would be more than happy to have you coaching our team. Simley is lucky to have you.

Thanks for the kind words.

I agree 100% about the issues associated with playing so young and the challenges this creates for coach, player, and parent alike. Obviously you have to be a pretty amazing talent in most programs to play so young. Then, to be that great and move to such a high level can be tough for all the reasons cited above.

What's been interesting for us is that we've found more of our young kids are ready faster than we anticipated. Granted, we are playing a schedule that is more in line with most Class A teams and not playing the very best AA teams anymore every night, but we're competing even against some decent AA opponents with a very inexperienced team and that says a lot about the potential long term for the young players in addition to the quality of the leadership in our older players as well.

Probably most important for me is that the chemistry is amazing even with such wide age disparity. We have 13 7th/8th graders and 7 Jrs/Srs that comprise our "Varsity." We have one 9th grader that is between the two groups and no sophomores. Watching the kids at our boys games, at team events, on road trips, and just day-to-day interaction is really neat to see as they're far more cohesive than I could have ever even imagined. This is awesome for so many reasons, but most in that it sets the tone for the future of the program and what's expected of its participants.