Lent - from the anglo-saxon word for the month of March.
Come March, the AA trophy will belong to either the Spuds or the Lumberjacks. Not only a public school (made up of all sorts of various religious individuals I am sure), but a northern school.
And the A trophy will go all the way north to the Canadian border, either Warroad or International Falls.
Even the gentle Gentiles are entitled to a dream.
Wait Until Lent
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
A bold prediction on the 6 time brides maids elliott. I suppose if they keep knockin on the door, its bound to open.
The Jacks are a longshot.
But either would be a welcome champion. The fat cat , huge , suburban schools have dominated the scene for 30 years. Without the Catholics, we would have basically the same kind of school winning year after year(I know about Roseau and East).
If the Catholics dont win it elliott ,I am rootin for your guys.
The Jacks are a longshot.
But either would be a welcome champion. The fat cat , huge , suburban schools have dominated the scene for 30 years. Without the Catholics, we would have basically the same kind of school winning year after year(I know about Roseau and East).
If the Catholics dont win it elliott ,I am rootin for your guys.
And to the second reason for the thread -
The MSHSL and state legislature opened a box that those involved in hockey in Minnesota know as the GREAT DEBATE: community based hockey.
What does it really mean (and for poor old renegade ram just what does community mean)?
Unfortunately, there is no clear answer that makes sense for all. And the MSHSL by trying to shove things back in the box (the Pagan Pandora) will pinch off a few fingers when closing the lid. That is the way it works. Then, after a brief period in time, they will lift the lid again and try another approach.
As for the arrogant, private school, attitudes, well sure, they get it from their snobby parents. Nothing I, nor any mortal, can do about it. That is who we are.
Moorhead - snobs.
Duluth East - snobs.
AHA - snobs.
Edina - snobs and cakeeaters.
Rochester, snobs, rich and with perfect health.
Hill-Murray - snobs and catlickers.
Just depends on where you sit at any particular time in the traffic jam of the human race.
As John said said to his protege (cannot remember his name) and I paraphrase, 'Get off your ass and quit feeling sorry for yourself!'
The MSHSL and state legislature opened a box that those involved in hockey in Minnesota know as the GREAT DEBATE: community based hockey.
What does it really mean (and for poor old renegade ram just what does community mean)?
Unfortunately, there is no clear answer that makes sense for all. And the MSHSL by trying to shove things back in the box (the Pagan Pandora) will pinch off a few fingers when closing the lid. That is the way it works. Then, after a brief period in time, they will lift the lid again and try another approach.
As for the arrogant, private school, attitudes, well sure, they get it from their snobby parents. Nothing I, nor any mortal, can do about it. That is who we are.
Moorhead - snobs.
Duluth East - snobs.
AHA - snobs.
Edina - snobs and cakeeaters.
Rochester, snobs, rich and with perfect health.
Hill-Murray - snobs and catlickers.
Just depends on where you sit at any particular time in the traffic jam of the human race.
As John said said to his protege (cannot remember his name) and I paraphrase, 'Get off your ass and quit feeling sorry for yourself!'
Insightful comments elliott. Allow me to add this.
If we want community(town/municipality)hockey, why do we play high school hockey?
They arent the same thing anymore. The public education system has evolved as growth has been experienced beyond the first ring suburds.
If you go to school in White Bear Lake Area, you could be from any one of 8 municipalites.
The inner city schools have coopted so kids playing on a high school team dont even go to the same high school.
The legislature, our elected reps, passed open enrollment a number of years ago.
But the MSHSL is spending time considering an anti transfer rule that would............what? Save community hockey?
Pray. Get down on your knees and pray.
And deliver us from evil. Amen
If we want community(town/municipality)hockey, why do we play high school hockey?
They arent the same thing anymore. The public education system has evolved as growth has been experienced beyond the first ring suburds.
If you go to school in White Bear Lake Area, you could be from any one of 8 municipalites.
The inner city schools have coopted so kids playing on a high school team dont even go to the same high school.
The legislature, our elected reps, passed open enrollment a number of years ago.
But the MSHSL is spending time considering an anti transfer rule that would............what? Save community hockey?
Pray. Get down on your knees and pray.
And deliver us from evil. Amen
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HShockeywatcher
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I started a thread a couple weeks ago about this and Lee shut it down, but since this is long standing I will post it here. This is a quote specifically about St Bernard's in basketball and about private schools in general from the minnesota-scores basketball forum:
"By their very nature of being "private" schools, all private schools essentially HAVE to recruit all of their students. They have to convince students and parents that it would be good for them to pay tuition to attend classes at a private school rather than to attend public schools for no cost other than the property taxes that all people pay whether they utilize the public, private or home-school systems."
The link to read the full post is:
http://forum.minnesota-scores.com/viewt ... c&start=15
The basic idea of what he is saying is simple. Give it a name, and connotation, whether that be good or bad, but private schools have to get students some how. They also have to get students who play sports. There are many schools public and private who are good at sports and don't "R word" and there are schools public and private who do "R word".
I would call it just letting a student know of an opportunity that they wouldn't have somewhere else. Not everyone who is given an opportunity takes it.
"By their very nature of being "private" schools, all private schools essentially HAVE to recruit all of their students. They have to convince students and parents that it would be good for them to pay tuition to attend classes at a private school rather than to attend public schools for no cost other than the property taxes that all people pay whether they utilize the public, private or home-school systems."
The link to read the full post is:
http://forum.minnesota-scores.com/viewt ... c&start=15
The basic idea of what he is saying is simple. Give it a name, and connotation, whether that be good or bad, but private schools have to get students some how. They also have to get students who play sports. There are many schools public and private who are good at sports and don't "R word" and there are schools public and private who do "R word".
I would call it just letting a student know of an opportunity that they wouldn't have somewhere else. Not everyone who is given an opportunity takes it.
Yes, the definition of high school being attached to a 'community' has changed dramatically from the picture perfect world of the 1950's.
And I do not have an answer as to how to draw the lines.
But lines will be drawn because of open enrollemnt and it not being primarily used for education. The private schools are one of the casualties of war in this thing.
We all know that freedom has restrictions. Like it or not.
Let us all pray (to whatever GOD or otherwise) that the people making the decision are guided wisely.
Of course after we pray for peace (although peace is only a concept man the animal thinks exists), reduction of pain and suffering for all men (which includes females), and for those we specifically know need intervention by the Savior (sorry cannot be PC all the time).
And if I come up with an appropriate solution to the problem I will call teh MSHSL immediately. I am sure they will listen.
And I do not have an answer as to how to draw the lines.
But lines will be drawn because of open enrollemnt and it not being primarily used for education. The private schools are one of the casualties of war in this thing.
We all know that freedom has restrictions. Like it or not.
Let us all pray (to whatever GOD or otherwise) that the people making the decision are guided wisely.
Of course after we pray for peace (although peace is only a concept man the animal thinks exists), reduction of pain and suffering for all men (which includes females), and for those we specifically know need intervention by the Savior (sorry cannot be PC all the time).
And if I come up with an appropriate solution to the problem I will call teh MSHSL immediately. I am sure they will listen.
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Can't Never Tried
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But thats the main rub boys.
The legislature never put any"motive" restrictions on its use. How could it?
But the MSHSL and others have decreed that "it wasnt intended so kids could use it for sports".
They dont tell you how they know that or even why they think it, they just say it.
And then after they say it , they promulgate anti transfer rules to restrict something enacted by the legislature.
Its pretty bad.
The legislature never put any"motive" restrictions on its use. How could it?
But the MSHSL and others have decreed that "it wasnt intended so kids could use it for sports".
They dont tell you how they know that or even why they think it, they just say it.
And then after they say it , they promulgate anti transfer rules to restrict something enacted by the legislature.
Its pretty bad.
If you look at the statute, the biggest fear the legislature had with regards to sports was that someone using OE would be denied in favor of someone with athletic ability. Clearly they knew very well that open enrollees expected to be eligible for sports.
The MSHSL makes a big deal about sports being a privilege, IMHO you earn that privilege by being a good student, not by having the right zip code.
The MSHSL makes a big deal about sports being a privilege, IMHO you earn that privilege by being a good student, not by having the right zip code.
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HShockeywatcher
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- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:21 pm
There is something to be said about the students, in the past, that transfer between sports because two or three different school have good sports programs in the sports that student plays. But if you decide to transfer once, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Or what if you are transferring for academic reasons but would still like to play sports?
Or what if you are transferring for academic reasons but would still like to play sports?
You (and you being the State legislature etal) should either allow open enrollment or not offer it.
If it is offered, then a student attending a school should have the right to participate in all that is offered.
If those events (primarily sports) where participation is limited to those with the better ability are so important to all of us, then perhaps they should not be something we offer via the school system. (But that is not going to happen; at least until the money side of it allows for a stronger system outside the school).
If it is offered, then a student attending a school should have the right to participate in all that is offered.
If those events (primarily sports) where participation is limited to those with the better ability are so important to all of us, then perhaps they should not be something we offer via the school system. (But that is not going to happen; at least until the money side of it allows for a stronger system outside the school).
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Neutron 14
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- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
Just curious how this number was accumulated.packerboy wrote:elliott, more than 30,000 Minnesota students used open enrolment last year.
What % changed from one school district to another without moving? What % did it after their freshman year?
Does this include every kid in private school?
Lets paint an accurate picture here.
When you OE you have to fill out a form, on that form you give reasons. In the past I have seen stats on how many kids put down sports as one of the reasons, haven't seen it this year. I am not sure if the OE stats include people that transfer from one school district to another (and not changing residence) without going through OE so the number could actually be much larger. I don't have any idea if anybody is keeping track of the number of students transferring to privates after 9th grade.
The real question is, why aren't these numbers known and being used as the basis of the new proposal? Wouldn't you want some actual statistical evidence? Do they even provide a count of letters, emails and phone calls from irate people?
The MSHSL should also be specifying a specific problem (not just complaints) that these transfers are causing and how specifically the proposal will solve that problem. Thay should also be stating what new problems the proposal will cause so the people voting can make an informed decision.
The real question is, why aren't these numbers known and being used as the basis of the new proposal? Wouldn't you want some actual statistical evidence? Do they even provide a count of letters, emails and phone calls from irate people?
The MSHSL should also be specifying a specific problem (not just complaints) that these transfers are causing and how specifically the proposal will solve that problem. Thay should also be stating what new problems the proposal will cause so the people voting can make an informed decision.
Last edited by xk1 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Here is the link to the statute...
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/ ... &year=2006
and this is the statute granting the MSHSL authority...
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/ ... ction=128C
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/ ... &year=2006
and this is the statute granting the MSHSL authority...
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/ ... ction=128C
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
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Another History Lesson from the AP
In the 40's and the 50's while the public schools had their tourney filled with "Cinderella" teams of darling little boys with goofy names wearing their mommies' figure skates, Nuns and Christian Brothers were toughening their Catholic hockey students, long before "high sticking" became illegal.
By the 60's the best of the sissies were being drubbed by the Catholics, in secret games kept off the books, which were drawing larger crowds than the tourney put on by the anti-Catholic bigots.
Wasn't long before the secret was out, and Catholic domination was on the books. The anti-Catholic tourney was in danger of becoming a well-known joke by the mid 60's & 70's.
Then in the mid 70's the bigots hatched a plan that almost worked. "If we let in the Catholics, we can control them with our rules and make them just as sissified as us."
Like I said, it almost worked. Once proud Catholic teams fell on hard times... all but one... and that one Catholic school gave the MSHSL plenty to worry about... year after year... 1975-1991 the one and only true one-class tournament became world famous.
So after 1991, the MSHSL decided to kill its own tournament, but one pesky Catholic school refused to go away. At the same time, more Catholics started to awake from decades of slumber...
"What is going on," cried Dave Stead and the rest of the MSHSL bigots. "What do them Catholics got that we ain't?" Thus came "Open Enrollment."
By the new millennium, thousands of public students freely moved, but nothing else improved (unless you count the Catholic schools which always get better and better).
As it turns out, the Catholic schools were not just attracting the better students/athletes, but they were TEACHING them to BECOME better students/athletes. This will always be the "unfair" advantage as long as public school teachers feed from the public welfare trough.
Dave Stead now knows the only way to beat the Catholics is to shrink them out of existence... thus the new boundary proposal.
By the 60's the best of the sissies were being drubbed by the Catholics, in secret games kept off the books, which were drawing larger crowds than the tourney put on by the anti-Catholic bigots.
Wasn't long before the secret was out, and Catholic domination was on the books. The anti-Catholic tourney was in danger of becoming a well-known joke by the mid 60's & 70's.
Then in the mid 70's the bigots hatched a plan that almost worked. "If we let in the Catholics, we can control them with our rules and make them just as sissified as us."
Like I said, it almost worked. Once proud Catholic teams fell on hard times... all but one... and that one Catholic school gave the MSHSL plenty to worry about... year after year... 1975-1991 the one and only true one-class tournament became world famous.
So after 1991, the MSHSL decided to kill its own tournament, but one pesky Catholic school refused to go away. At the same time, more Catholics started to awake from decades of slumber...
"What is going on," cried Dave Stead and the rest of the MSHSL bigots. "What do them Catholics got that we ain't?" Thus came "Open Enrollment."
By the new millennium, thousands of public students freely moved, but nothing else improved (unless you count the Catholic schools which always get better and better).
As it turns out, the Catholic schools were not just attracting the better students/athletes, but they were TEACHING them to BECOME better students/athletes. This will always be the "unfair" advantage as long as public school teachers feed from the public welfare trough.
Dave Stead now knows the only way to beat the Catholics is to shrink them out of existence... thus the new boundary proposal.
But when will they be happy?
Who do they want to win?
Who ever is winning must have the upper hand or an unfair advantage.
If another huge suburban school won it again, would that appease them?
The clock has struck 12 for Cinderella. Sure maybe it could happen again but dont hold your breath.
Almost all of the Cinderellas are now in Class A.
Would they be happy if the trophy was passed around from one big western or northeastern suburban school to another?
I dont get what the goal is. What is the desired end result of all of this?
Who do they want to win?
Who ever is winning must have the upper hand or an unfair advantage.
If another huge suburban school won it again, would that appease them?
The clock has struck 12 for Cinderella. Sure maybe it could happen again but dont hold your breath.
Almost all of the Cinderellas are now in Class A.
Would they be happy if the trophy was passed around from one big western or northeastern suburban school to another?
I dont get what the goal is. What is the desired end result of all of this?
AP, you must be about 43 years old.
In the 50's and 60's the Catholic schools did play the little public schools (filled with Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, and other such things).
And the Hilltoppers and Cretins put up a good show but still got CREAMED. The best of the 'privates' were only second best (if that).
When they (the catlickers) realized that winning hockey games was a great way to 'recruit' additional REAL believers, they changed their ways and went out and got some great Lutheran, non-private Catholics, Evangelists, Presbyterians (sp), and other assorted children.
And thus the Scoundrels or catholics (read (lower case as in demeaning)) found another unsavory method of enriching the coffers of those who try to control the TRUE BELIEVERS (read non-private Angelic pagans).
So when the MSHSL come along and unwittingly found a way to fight the Scoundrels, the TRUE BELIEVERS take pause to rejoice. We have a chance to beat the Roman Agnostics and the sheep they lead.
Go Spuds!!
Go CEC Jacks!
Go Broncos (or Bluejackets or Hawks)!!
Lenct (the old spelling) we await thee!
In the 50's and 60's the Catholic schools did play the little public schools (filled with Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, and other such things).
And the Hilltoppers and Cretins put up a good show but still got CREAMED. The best of the 'privates' were only second best (if that).
When they (the catlickers) realized that winning hockey games was a great way to 'recruit' additional REAL believers, they changed their ways and went out and got some great Lutheran, non-private Catholics, Evangelists, Presbyterians (sp), and other assorted children.
And thus the Scoundrels or catholics (read (lower case as in demeaning)) found another unsavory method of enriching the coffers of those who try to control the TRUE BELIEVERS (read non-private Angelic pagans).
So when the MSHSL come along and unwittingly found a way to fight the Scoundrels, the TRUE BELIEVERS take pause to rejoice. We have a chance to beat the Roman Agnostics and the sheep they lead.
Go Spuds!!
Go CEC Jacks!
Go Broncos (or Bluejackets or Hawks)!!
Lenct (the old spelling) we await thee!
Last edited by elliott70 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
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