Combined JV Teams?

[ghshockeyfan]

I see your point, I was just commenting on how I think the U14 vs JV thing might be handled. The usual problem comes when you get more than 17 players and less than say 25. If there is a youth option the player is better off at U12 or 14. If not, what do you do with them? In boys you would simply be cut but girls seem to handle this differently.

Always exceptions to rules and thus "guidelines" may be a better term as xk said above. Also, xk right about the #'s. 17-25 is a nightmare # of kids for HS V only. Let me say that the solution then is to send weakest (note I don't say youngest) kids to youth, but what if weakest are oldest? Then, you have the partial-JV schedule option - play 10 stand alone games for JV - if your admin will back this - as you're still within the 4 period * # of V game rule for MSHSL this way even with the other players you "play down" to JV. THE OTHER OPTION that I looked at MANY years ago when faced with this was co-op JV but told it was illegal (by MSHSL standards). I think that this is the topic of the thread, and why I feel co-op JV only is great IF COMMUNICATED AS AN OPTION!!!

[xk1]

Is a joint JV a workable option anywhere other than Bloomington, LV and Rochester? In the case of Bloomington they are better off co-oping the Varsity as well.

[hockeyrube7]

THE OTHER OPTION that I looked at MANY years ago when faced with this was co-op JV but told it was illegal (by MSHSL standards). I think that this is the topic of the thread, and why I feel co-op JV only is great IF COMMUNICATED AS AN OPTION!!!

Couldn't agree with this more, and if that is an option, I really think these communities need to start working together more, and communicate. Again though, most youth and HS clubs tend to differ in opinion, and in-fight with each other quite a bit. If one could work out the "ugly" details of it all, this would be a great option! Stop sending good kids away, and build up the base!

[GoEV]

In response to XK's question, AV and RM coop JV this year - despite the fact that there are not adjacent high school boundaries between the two (EV is between).

I think the biggest problem with this option is not knowing until the last minute how many girls will try-out, or play U14's, or quit the program if they don't make varsity, etc. People always wonder if the JV will be too big or too small - combining two high school JVs at the last minute is extremely difficult.

[xk1]

Yes, I remembered the RAVE area after posting.

Does anyone know why we allowed 7-8the graders to play HS sports in the first place? I suspect it was so small schools could field a varsity team at all, not any of other the reasons people have mentioned. If we are indeed modeled after the boys program then the place for these kids is U14.

[hockeyrube7]

Yes, I remembered the RAVE area after posting.

Does anyone know why we allowed 7-8the graders to play HS sports in the first place? I suspect it was so small schools could field a varsity team at all, not any of other the reasons people have mentioned. If we are indeed modeled after the boys program then the place for these kids is U14.

School policy I would think. I know of a few HS teams that used to not allow this, but when faced with "Lose the team or let them play", they let them play. I agree, and I do think that should be the way. Only thing is that we'd have to go backwards, and I don't see that happening. There are many teams that rely on 7th and 8th graders to fill their HS teams, just to survive. We would lose some HS programs for the short term, and find many more combined teams, but in the long run it would really strengthen the whole community of girls hockey I would think.

[xk1]

I don't see it going backwards either unless we get numbers, this is the real issue, what effect does moving up all theses kids have on the program. You get to the point where every kid thinks they have to make the HS team in 7th grade. The HS does nothing to support the youth program as long as it's this easy to maintain a HS team by using 6 tear classes to do the job of 3. Perhaps if a HS couldn't have those kids they would do more to get the youth program going and fill out the HS program with HS aged kids. Girls hockey is getting better skill wise but I see no increase in numbers. We are now seeing co-ops like Dulith and North Metro to field teams, this is a big step backwards.

[MNHockeyFan]

Yes, I remembered the RAVE area after posting.

Does anyone know why we allowed 7-8the graders to play HS sports in the first place? I suspect it was so small schools could field a varsity team at all, not any of other the reasons people have mentioned. If we are indeed modeled after the boys program then the place for these kids is U14.

Don't forget that a fair number of boys choose to leave their Bantam teams early to play high school. There are not nearly as many because the boys' numbers are so much greater and it's more difficult to make the H.S. team this young. I know the leading scorer the past two years for Armstrong did not play any Bantams at all. He made the varsity team as an 8th grader. There was also the kid from St. Thomas who did so well in the State Tournament as an 8th grader, and he's now with the National Development program in Michigan. These are the exceptions, I know, because it's so tough, but if the talent is there and the circumstances are right, the boys will make the jump too.

Where you really see this "abused" if you want to call it that is with the off-season girls' AAA and tournament teams. Many of the U16 squads are filled with U14 eligible players, and same with the U19 teams being comprised with mostly U16 eligible girls. I guess it's all about playing as tough of competition as you can as this will generally force you to become a better player.

[xk1]

I agree there are exceptions although I think I once read Wayne Gretzsky wasn't allowed to play up, but that's not the point. My original point was that the average parent or player is not informed enough to make this decision. For every superstar that should be playing Varsity in 8th grade there are 100 kids sittng on the bench on their over sized JV team. Then they really get mad when what ice time they get gets taken by the third line on Varsity coming down to play a period. Good coaches limit their V/JV so this can't happen.
Does this mean I think the MSHSL should limit teams to 9-12 graders, no. It might be worth debating a rule that allows for exceptions for the reasons people have brought up so that playing up to HS is the exception, not the expectation for 8th graders.
I might also add that the MSHSL would be better of spending there time on these issues rather than transfer rules. (sorry, I couldn't help myself)

[hockeyrube7]

Where you really see this "abused" if you want to call it that is with the off-season girls' AAA and tournament teams. Many of the U16 squads are filled with U14 eligible players, and same with the U19 teams being comprised with mostly U16 eligible girls. I guess it's all about playing as tough of competition as you can as this will generally force you to become a better player.

Agree with this very much so. Last summer there were 12 year olds playing U19 AAA. I really believe there needs to be a governing body over summer AAA. I know this will never happen, but there should be. I don't know why there couldn't be, there are rulers over everything else. I don't care how good you are, a 12 year old should not be playing U19, but then again, I guess the high schools are allowing it, so why not AAA.

[MNHockeyFan]

Back to the JV topic, at our school there were originally 52 girls who expressed interest in going out for hockey this season and went to a meeting to sign up. About a half dozen of these were upperclassmen who had little or no hockey experience, but just thought it would be fun to play JV. When they saw the numbers and realized this wasn't going to happen, they dropped their interest and didn't go to tryouts. The athletic director also sent a letter out to everyone that signed up, noting the large numbers that were going out for girls hockey. But the main purpose of the letter was to encourage the younger players who still had youth eligibility left to go that route. For many, it would be either that or they wouldn't be playing any hockey this year, as the two teams combined would only be taking 30 skaters.

When tryouts came, there were I think only 34 that showed up, so those that didn't fell into either of these two camps. They then decided to keep 15 skaters on the varsity and all remaining players (19, I believe) on the JV. Obviously in this instance the younger girls were much better served by going youth, but it took that letter (communication) to make it happen.

No real point here, except to maybe point out that each situation is different and communication is key to help parents and younger players make the right decision.