Why even mention the Wisconsin Fire

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

pickme2
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:23 pm

what about this?

Post by pickme2 »

Mabye those people do it because it's just more fun...
breakout
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by breakout »

It's more fun...........good one.

I talked to a parent from Team Illinois and another parent of a kid playing on a team from Pheonix last year. Both families were paying 15K per kid to play hockey. That doesn't include parent travel expenses. Is that the direction Minnesota kids should go in?

There are a lot of other development options I would persue if I had that extra 15K laying around.

Reasons for many young athletes not playing hockey: Cost is biggest factor.
Thecalmone
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:42 pm

Well the simple reason is solid development

Post by Thecalmone »

Try it, it'll work miracles. Skilled practices over working (the breakout)....3-0's...5-0's. Watch a practice you'll see, There's no question after 10 minutes. Good Luck to your season...

10k... good one

People choose this for the Chance to play at Nationals
breakout
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by breakout »

Maybe you can share an article or two about the Wisconsin Fire's record at Nationals. I would be interested in reading that.
54fighting
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:05 pm
Location: The sin bin

Post by 54fighting »

It is obvious that Breakout has a problem with the Fire program. Maybe his kid got cut or something. Nothing he says is true.

Fact- the cost of playing for one of the fire teams is not even close to the numbers he throws around. In fact the cost per hour of ice is not much different than most associatons. They just skate more. If I read their schedule right they only practice an average of 2-3 times a week but it looks like they are 1.5 hr practices. According to what I heard at tryout time the cost for the year was under $3000.00. That does not include travel. I think my association fees w/o travel last year were close to $1800.00. Hardley the 15K difference he claims.

Fact-If you look at the records 2 of the teams seem to be doing fairly well. Both the 94 and the 96 teams are well above 500 and the 93 and 95 teams are right around 500. None of them seem to be getting killed by other AAA teams like he claims.

Like I said before, if they would be a good fit for your tournament let em in, if not don't. If they would be a good game for your team, play em, if not don't. But don't exclude them just becouse of some sort of short sighted principle.
Breakout- get the facts straight before you decide to rip the program.
thinkb4engaging
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm

Post by thinkb4engaging »

Very well put 54fighting.
pucker52
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:55 pm

Post by pucker52 »

I find this whole debate over the Fire interesting in that there seems to be a lot of participants that don't have any apparent connection to, or interest in becoming connected to the Fire program. I don't know what leads one to get so worked up over something that doesn't effect them.

The "facts" presented in a previous post are generally correct as my son played for the Fire for a time. The cost of the basic program are inline with what you would pay at many associations if you had as much ice time. One of the significant differences is in the ratio of practice time to games played. Most people assume the Fire plays more games and that is the reason people gravitate to it. The years my son played, the Fire played less games than his level at the local association but had nearly 4 times as much practice time.

Was it a commitment from both our son and his parents? Absolutely. Will he become a D1 or NHL player, not likely on the former and no interest in the latter. Will he ever wonder if given a different opportunity he might have become one? Only if he decides later that he should have put out more effort. He has been afforded every opportunity to succeed as far as he wants to go.

We did travel, but we had fun traveling as a family. We went to places that we otherwise wouldn't have visited and we studied the geography of the Upper Midwest as we went. He played in arenas from Ontario to North Dakota and Thunder Bay to St. Louis. It cost us some money and weekends. We are not wealthy so it took some sacrifice but it was worth every penny for the time that I got to spend with my kids. When they leave for college in a couple of years, I will resume weekends of hunting, fishing, and working. I have no regrets.

If you are considering the Fire or any other tier one team for your son or daughter, I would recommend it.

As for the Minnesota teams that won't play them, too bad for those teams. Most often when someone raised that with us as a reason not to play with the Fire, my response was, "Ask your son if he would like to play against the Fire." Generally, you will find that the kids really want to play them if for no other reason than to beat them and be able to say they are better than the Fire. The insecure coaches and associations and even some districts are usually the blockage points. I believe the fear is that some player from their team, association or district might see something they like and leave if the chance comes.

As for my son, he progressed way beyond any point he would have achieved had he stayed with the association.
Shuck the puck!!!
pickme2
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:23 pm

Post by pickme2 »

Pucker 52,

Very nicely said!
thinkb4engaging
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm

Thanksgiving weekend Fire Hockey Club highlights

Post by thinkb4engaging »

Just to keep some of you curious Tier 1 supporters informed of the Fire highlights this weekend ....... our closest Tier 1 connection in the winter season had some success........ #3 US ranked 96 Fire won the Burnsville squirt tourney over the Fargo Flyers- congratulations. The #13 US ranked 94 Fire played St. Louis Jr. Blues in a three game sweep 4-0, 4-2 and 7-3.
elliott70
Posts: 15767
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 »

I was not going to comment on this topic, but....

As most on here know, I am with MN Hockey. Last year (and probably in previous years), the Fire was not in complete compliance with USA Hockey registration of their team. MN Hockey and WI Hockey and USA Hockey got the details worked out. I do not believe (nor does anyone that I know) that the Fire wsa being deceitful. The rules are not as simple as some think.

So last year, people were told that the Fire may be a problem as an opponent. That same warning holds true for other non-Minnesota teams that play. Occassionally we get word of a team coming into MN for games/scrimmages and people are warned when we learn of them. But MN Hockey does not check these teams so it is important that the local associations be on their toes when they play these teams.

Does MN Hockey care if MN teams play the Fire? No.
Do we care if kids (their family) decide to paly with the Fire? No. People have to make decisions based on what they feel is best for their child/family.
MN Hockey is community based. It is not a rumor that other USA Hokcey affiliates like our program (it is statements from administrators, from coaches, from parents, from players - and I have heard the statements from all of these people directly). That's not to say some enjoy their system, but many would like to have what MN has for their youth/HS program.
Saying that, does not mean we do not have problems within MN Hockey. Obviously there are problems. Solving every individuals problems is not possible. That is why it is nice to have hockey options.

Will some teams/associations not want to play the Fire and why? Of course, if my association lost a key player or two, I would try to fix the reason why they left. But being human, I would feel some bitterness. And then if the parents/player spoke ill of our association ater they left, that would just compound it to the point of saying 'Hey Fire, you are not welcome here' and "Hey neighboring association, be careful about the Fire, maybe you should not play them.'

It is not right, but sometimes it works that way, with both sides bringing it on themselves.

But....
Good luck to those kids playing with the Fire. I hope the experience is what you want.

To those still here, let us and your local association and district know what we can do to make your experience better.

Mark Elliott
Bemidji, MN
MN Hockey Board Member
District 16 Director
wingman
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:37 pm

Fire Hockey

Post by wingman »

All I know is reality. Reality is they are here and they have a program and they want to play games. The D2, and other districts that 'Blackball' them is the ridicules knee jerk reaction. Because as D2 prevents teams from their district playing them-all the western MN districts scrimmage or play them. So lets see-we have a good competitive team near by--and we can't play them yet anybody else can???? Even Mr. MN hockey said it is OK. I just hope D2 realizes what a joke. You can't act that way in the real world of business, it is frowned on socially, yet you choose to reply in such a juvinile way??? I believe if you black ball you are creating unfair practices and if they are not consistent throughout MN hockey-then you probably are breaking the law--but what is more important is you are trying to 'Exclude' someone. Your being bias!!! Why not embrace what they are doing - try to compete at the same levels. There is always a way to be inclusive.

I wonder what would have happened if Ikola, Brooks, Sonmore, etc etc. tried to exclude a team or player from playing!!!!??? Take a lead from the past---embrace change and try to spread it around. Adobt don't exclude--it is so juvinile, inconsistent, non civil, distructive, and flat out a bad bad bad precendent to start. For instance how many of you would conduct yourself like this at your work or home as D2 has conducted this policy here. I would bet half of you if not all could not conduct yourself at work as they have because it is UNLAWFUL. It is a joke and time to change!!!!!!!!!! Come on less than 10% of their players don't even come from D2 or the other District that black balls them. And it is black balling when you instruct your referees' they can't even ref a game or they too will be black balled. It is actually some what comical.

PS I'm not associated with the fire in anyway-but I'd love to go scrimmage or play them once in awhile--cause every other team in MN can......and evenly aged kids can and do play each other all over the USof A. And as a matter of fact the most appealing tournaments-the ones that seem to get all the good teams to play- seem to have a participant that is AAA---Hmmmm I wonder why that is!!!!?????
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