Nick Coleman? Liberal newspaper nicknamed The Red Star.
The only real real reliable information is what you get here.
PS what were you doing in Montana with Neut 15?
Hey, how 'bout doze Gophers
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
packerboy, I think the 'not the only show in town' argument applies to the popularity of the program with the public and not so much with the kids they're trying to recruit. And I believe I've been one of the few on this board to argue that the new stadium is a really bad idea, so I wouldn't have a problem keeping the dome. It's pretty hard to turn the weather into a positive when you're selling this program, which is another reason to work your tail off for the local talent.
I believe a college coach has to have a rapport with the high school coaches so they want to tell him about their good players. There are always players who fly under the radar and Mason needs to get as many of those guys as he can. If he has a good relationship with a coach he'll have a better chance of hearing about those players whereas the coach might not have a chance to tell Mason about the player. Or the coach might talk about the player to coaches from programs he feels better about. The flip side of this is how does Mason's condescending attitude toward MN high school coaches help him? It doesn't. And reaching out to the high school coaches isn't that hard to do.
I believe a college coach has to have a rapport with the high school coaches so they want to tell him about their good players. There are always players who fly under the radar and Mason needs to get as many of those guys as he can. If he has a good relationship with a coach he'll have a better chance of hearing about those players whereas the coach might not have a chance to tell Mason about the player. Or the coach might talk about the player to coaches from programs he feels better about. The flip side of this is how does Mason's condescending attitude toward MN high school coaches help him? It doesn't. And reaching out to the high school coaches isn't that hard to do.
You are misinformed ChrisK. It is
The public will show up if you win. Sure, there is competition for the sports dollar here but if you win, theyll show up.
A new stadium will help with things. Atmosphere is important. The dome doenst have any for the Gophers.
Compare a hockey recruit who is being taken to Mariucci to the football recruit being taken to the dome. The hockey rink oozes U of M and maroon and gold tradition. The football atmosphere is tacky beyond description. Plastic maroon and gold stuff to cover the blue..............its just horrible.
New stadium, new recruiter, new coach....back to glory.
The public will show up if you win. Sure, there is competition for the sports dollar here but if you win, theyll show up.
A new stadium will help with things. Atmosphere is important. The dome doenst have any for the Gophers.
Compare a hockey recruit who is being taken to Mariucci to the football recruit being taken to the dome. The hockey rink oozes U of M and maroon and gold tradition. The football atmosphere is tacky beyond description. Plastic maroon and gold stuff to cover the blue..............its just horrible.
New stadium, new recruiter, new coach....back to glory.
packerboy, I don't want to rehash my arguments about the stadium.
It's kind of a Catch-22 though isn't it, the program doesn't get any fan support until it starts winning but fan support would help create a winning atmosphere. If your argument is that Gopher football doesn't have great atmosphere because it's not the only game in town and hurts recruiting because of the lack of atmosphere, you have a point. Otherwise I don't know why the 'not the only game in town' argument would scare athletes away.
It's kind of a Catch-22 though isn't it, the program doesn't get any fan support until it starts winning but fan support would help create a winning atmosphere. If your argument is that Gopher football doesn't have great atmosphere because it's not the only game in town and hurts recruiting because of the lack of atmosphere, you have a point. Otherwise I don't know why the 'not the only game in town' argument would scare athletes away.
Well, Ill esplain it to you.
The guy form Iowa tells the kid:
"Hey, down here you are the big star, up in Mpls its Joe Mauer and the Twins or Brad Johnson and the Vikings. The Gophers are on the 4th page of the sports pages, here the Hawkeyes are on the front page and the fourth page and every page "
And he is right. They could sell out the place for the Gophers and the first thing you read about in the paper or on sports radio is the Vikings. Even the Twins are second class citizens, let alone the Gophers.
This is major league town. Iowa City, Madison , Columbus etc etc are not.
That can be and is a big recruitig point that is used against Minnesota. Ive talked to kids who have been recruited by colleges. I am not making it up.
The guy form Iowa tells the kid:
"Hey, down here you are the big star, up in Mpls its Joe Mauer and the Twins or Brad Johnson and the Vikings. The Gophers are on the 4th page of the sports pages, here the Hawkeyes are on the front page and the fourth page and every page "
And he is right. They could sell out the place for the Gophers and the first thing you read about in the paper or on sports radio is the Vikings. Even the Twins are second class citizens, let alone the Gophers.
This is major league town. Iowa City, Madison , Columbus etc etc are not.
That can be and is a big recruitig point that is used against Minnesota. Ive talked to kids who have been recruited by colleges. I am not making it up.
-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
EREmpireStrikesBack
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:28 am
- Location: Minnesota
-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
I hope Tressel has his 3rd stringers in by half, he doesn't need the BCS points.Most of the major "myths" as to why the U continually sucks in football have been debunked.
1) The high acedemic standards make it hard for the U to compete. In reality the U has one of the easiest admissions policies, 10th out of 11 I believe. Besides these same admissions standards also apply to Hockey, Wrestling, Volleyball, Golf,and Baseball where the U has had success.
2) The U can't compete because they aren't the only game in town. Stinking Northwestern has been to a Rose Bowl game more recently than the Gophers and they are about equal in football to the U and Chicago isn't exactly a cow town anymore. Ann Arbor is 43 miles from downtown Detroit, not exactly a long ways. USC is in Los Angeles and they seem to have has some success recently as well. USC was almost at rock bottom until Pete Carroll got there showing how much of a difference coaching can make.
3) The because it's in Minneapolis the U can't compete with places like Madison, South Bend, and Columbus for recruits, well now you can add Fargo to that list as well. When Fargo is getting better kids than Minneapolis is you can throw that myth out the window as well.
I don't believe Mason is a bad coach, but I whole heartedly believe he is a bad recruiter. There's a saying about even a blind squirrell finds a nut and that is how he seems to get the kids he does. Maroney wasn't anywhere near a blue chipper, Setterstrom wasn't recruited out of Northfield he just was found at Mason's football camp, Barber wasn't a D1 prospect he walked on. Without literally stumbling on to these kids he wouldn't even have a job here today. I don't want to take anything away from NDSU, but they had more talent at every position than the Gophers did and Mason didn't recruit any of them and that shouldn't be the case under any circumstances.
Defense is played with heart and discipline and for years the Gophers have lacked it and that has been their downfall. Anyone in the stands at a Friday night football game can see who can tackle and who can't and for whatever reason Mason seems to get a lot more of the can'ts than he does of the cans.
1) The high acedemic standards make it hard for the U to compete. In reality the U has one of the easiest admissions policies, 10th out of 11 I believe. Besides these same admissions standards also apply to Hockey, Wrestling, Volleyball, Golf,and Baseball where the U has had success.
2) The U can't compete because they aren't the only game in town. Stinking Northwestern has been to a Rose Bowl game more recently than the Gophers and they are about equal in football to the U and Chicago isn't exactly a cow town anymore. Ann Arbor is 43 miles from downtown Detroit, not exactly a long ways. USC is in Los Angeles and they seem to have has some success recently as well. USC was almost at rock bottom until Pete Carroll got there showing how much of a difference coaching can make.
3) The because it's in Minneapolis the U can't compete with places like Madison, South Bend, and Columbus for recruits, well now you can add Fargo to that list as well. When Fargo is getting better kids than Minneapolis is you can throw that myth out the window as well.
I don't believe Mason is a bad coach, but I whole heartedly believe he is a bad recruiter. There's a saying about even a blind squirrell finds a nut and that is how he seems to get the kids he does. Maroney wasn't anywhere near a blue chipper, Setterstrom wasn't recruited out of Northfield he just was found at Mason's football camp, Barber wasn't a D1 prospect he walked on. Without literally stumbling on to these kids he wouldn't even have a job here today. I don't want to take anything away from NDSU, but they had more talent at every position than the Gophers did and Mason didn't recruit any of them and that shouldn't be the case under any circumstances.
Defense is played with heart and discipline and for years the Gophers have lacked it and that has been their downfall. Anyone in the stands at a Friday night football game can see who can tackle and who can't and for whatever reason Mason seems to get a lot more of the can'ts than he does of the cans.
I agree with you goldy that Mason has had recruiting issues. The unanswered question for many though is: Why?
Is it Mason or is it other things that limit what kind of success he can have?
The"fire Mason" crowd thinks its Mason and wants to try someone else. Someone who can over come any inherent obstacles, recruit top players and be a good coach too. In other words, someone we havent been able to find in 45 years.
The 'keep Mason " crowd says that he is doing as well as you can expect an if you fire him for somebody else we risk a return to the Wacker era and the upside might not be there.
I dont know that much about college recruiting. I would like to keep Mason and hire a recruiter. Is that something thats doable or does the head coach have to be the guy that recruits?
Is it Mason or is it other things that limit what kind of success he can have?
The"fire Mason" crowd thinks its Mason and wants to try someone else. Someone who can over come any inherent obstacles, recruit top players and be a good coach too. In other words, someone we havent been able to find in 45 years.
The 'keep Mason " crowd says that he is doing as well as you can expect an if you fire him for somebody else we risk a return to the Wacker era and the upside might not be there.
I dont know that much about college recruiting. I would like to keep Mason and hire a recruiter. Is that something thats doable or does the head coach have to be the guy that recruits?
-
Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
Saturday's result was predictable, but the sad reality is that OSU's backups in all likelyhood would still handle the Gopher Varsity. This tells me that the players the U gets are nowhere near a top 20 program's.
I recall seeing a MN high school player, who is now in the Wild organization, on his recruiting trip to Duluth. I remember seeing him and I said to my buddy, there is no way he is coming here. You know what, he didn't, he became a Gopher.
Were the Gophers better then? Nope, UMD was ruling the Gophs with Plante, Marinucci, Rohloff, Hauer, and British Columbia. Yet, their program still couldn't get the players the Gophers wanted. Was Woog a better recruiter than Sertich? I doubt it. Woog had history, facilities, and the U's luster to land the fish.
Gopher football to the top 20 programs is UMD to the Gophs. UMD can compete and beat the Gophs in a given year, provided they strike gold with a 145 lb kid from Cloquet.
To consistantly win in college, you have to attract most of the best players from the best recriuting grounds. Gopher football will never own Ohio, Penn, Tx and FL. Just like UMD, Mankato, ND, St. Cloud, or Bemidj will not own Minnesota.
I recall seeing a MN high school player, who is now in the Wild organization, on his recruiting trip to Duluth. I remember seeing him and I said to my buddy, there is no way he is coming here. You know what, he didn't, he became a Gopher.
Were the Gophers better then? Nope, UMD was ruling the Gophs with Plante, Marinucci, Rohloff, Hauer, and British Columbia. Yet, their program still couldn't get the players the Gophers wanted. Was Woog a better recruiter than Sertich? I doubt it. Woog had history, facilities, and the U's luster to land the fish.
Gopher football to the top 20 programs is UMD to the Gophs. UMD can compete and beat the Gophs in a given year, provided they strike gold with a 145 lb kid from Cloquet.
To consistantly win in college, you have to attract most of the best players from the best recriuting grounds. Gopher football will never own Ohio, Penn, Tx and FL. Just like UMD, Mankato, ND, St. Cloud, or Bemidj will not own Minnesota.
I agree IS and I think most people realize that there are limitations.
But what peple dont understand is why cant we be in a BCS bowl once every 10 years. Why cant we win the Big 10 once every 10-15 years.
Nobody is going to expect us to be OSU or MIch but is the best we can do what we have seen the previous 5 years?
I dont know the answer.
Alot of people are willing to fire Mason to find out.
But what peple dont understand is why cant we be in a BCS bowl once every 10 years. Why cant we win the Big 10 once every 10-15 years.
Nobody is going to expect us to be OSU or MIch but is the best we can do what we have seen the previous 5 years?
I dont know the answer.
Alot of people are willing to fire Mason to find out.
-
EREmpireStrikesBack
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:28 am
- Location: Minnesota
-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
Nothing wrong a few recruiting violations wouldnt fix
Of course your right Shanty, but we need not be bottom of the barrel in recruiting talent either. Recruiting is simply sales and marketing, and if your target market is Ohio(Mason) or Texas(Wacker) your going to lose to schools those kids grew up dreaming to play for.
These two coaches have ignored the low hanging fruit (Minnesota kids) to try and hit home runs from your "best recruiting grounds". It simply isn't going to happen. We need to focus on the athletes we have a reasonable chance with, not just expect they will come here. Augment that with the Maroneys every once and a while and we'll be as good as Wisconsin anyway.
PB is right. Hire a recruiter. A sales/marketing wiz. Someone who can put lipstick on this pig.
These two coaches have ignored the low hanging fruit (Minnesota kids) to try and hit home runs from your "best recruiting grounds". It simply isn't going to happen. We need to focus on the athletes we have a reasonable chance with, not just expect they will come here. Augment that with the Maroneys every once and a while and we'll be as good as Wisconsin anyway.
PB is right. Hire a recruiter. A sales/marketing wiz. Someone who can put lipstick on this pig.
Neut, I have heard just the opposite. I have heard that Mason 'gave up' on the blue chips long ago and concentrates on the less recruited kids and hopes to coach them up.
Maroney was an example of that
I think he still trys hard for the top MN player , many of whom are blue chips. But he knows he is up against it.
If they gave me the job, I would make the MN player my top priority. Without that, you have no legacy in State and will spin your wheels forever. We have to keep the top MN kids.
They have to play here, raise their families here, and send their kids here. We need more Marion Barbers and Daryl Thompsons.
Maroney was an example of that
I think he still trys hard for the top MN player , many of whom are blue chips. But he knows he is up against it.
If they gave me the job, I would make the MN player my top priority. Without that, you have no legacy in State and will spin your wheels forever. We have to keep the top MN kids.
They have to play here, raise their families here, and send their kids here. We need more Marion Barbers and Daryl Thompsons.
-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
A BCS bowl once in ten years is a realistic goal even with all the problems we have addressed. What is frustrating about Mason is that his teams of the last couple of years were right there. Offensively, they moved the ball against everybody. One year, they even had the Bye against one of the big dogs, even the schedule favored them. The problem was his inability to build a defense and to move the ball in the 2nd half like they did in the first.
Mason may be a victim of his own success. If he quietly tootles along at 7-4 with no star power, he isn't getting the heat he is now. His teams were just good enough to tiptoe into the upper divsion of the conference. Now this year, the fandom has been left at the alter.
Good thing a Twins playoff game didn't move the MN/Temple game to early December. Would anyone have been at that one.
Mason may be a victim of his own success. If he quietly tootles along at 7-4 with no star power, he isn't getting the heat he is now. His teams were just good enough to tiptoe into the upper divsion of the conference. Now this year, the fandom has been left at the alter.
Good thing a Twins playoff game didn't move the MN/Temple game to early December. Would anyone have been at that one.
-
EREmpireStrikesBack
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:28 am
- Location: Minnesota
Re: Nothing wrong a few recruiting violations wouldnt fix
It's kind of hard to when we lose the Floyd of Rosedale every year. We don't even have the pig to put the lipstick on...Neutron 14 wrote:PB is right. Hire a recruiter. A sales/marketing wiz. Someone who can put lipstick on this pig.
Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls