Article on High School Elite League

wild77 · Post by **wild77** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:01 pm

Wow packerboy, you must be able to read things between the lines that I don't see. I didn't see him taking credit for turning any kid into a D1 player although I know it has given kids exposure to scouts and and coaches that they may not have gotten otherwise. I do not know of any of the politics that you or other posters speak of. I found the Elite League well run and the people associated with the league interested in the kids. I do not want to get into an argument with you it's just IMO.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:15 pm

EG, We will see what happens but if he stays, guess who will take credit for it. wild77, Sure he is. He is even taking credit for the 44 kids playing right now. Its incredible. As fars as scouts go, well sure they love it. It functions the same way as a combine would. "Everybody"s in one spot. Its easier for them. But which kids get noticed that other wise wouldnt have? What did we do before the league came along? No one got a scholarship or was drafted? Again, have the league but if it is so good why do we need to make all of these claims about its benefits, some of which ,IMO, are pretty far fetched.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:25 pm

I usually think you see things pretty straight and agree with a lot of your comments but it seems you have a chip on your shoulder.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:35 pm

I dont know if you would call it that but you are right. If you cant tell, I am tired of the "if you dont sign up for this, you will be left behind" approach to developing kids. I think that most of it is nonsense. I think that a kid will go as far as his athleticism will take him with much less time and money than we seem so intent upon devoting to it. And I am not ashamed to say it.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:40 pm

Well, again, I agree with you there. But it seems that whether its hockey or other sports it is more concentrated at a younger age. Do this, do that summer camp, do do do - Elite kids still can play football and other things. But I do not agree with you that elite takes credit for all of it. I know from personal contact that alot of kids give elite credit for bringing up there game. I tell them elite gives an opportunity - they take advantage of it.

Whatwillwork · Post by **Whatwillwork** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:42 pm

Regardless of the bragging/propaganda/facts/whatever, the main question is, do you believe that the Elite league helps keep kids from going to the USHL and staying in HS? That is the big thing that I see, the fact that kids are staying here instead of going to the USHL for their senior season.

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:44 pm

I think it's safe to say it's not the league that makes the players, its the players that make the league. That said, without the elite league, the talent level of high school hockey would not be what it is today. We'd have a lot more players opting to go to the USHL or following other avenues to expose themselves (and I mean that in a good way, not in the Dino Ciccarelli way) to scouts.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:02 pm

I dont know if there is 10,20 or 0 who are here because of the Elite league. I dont think anyone else does either. I think that kids are going to do what they are going to do and I dont know that a month long program is going to make that much difference in their decision. But I dont care. The elite league is fine with me. It is well run and people think it has benefit. Whether it keeps kids here or not, lets do it. I just dont like it being sold the way it is.

blueeyesme2 · Post by **blueeyesme2** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:01 pm

i dont think its being sold. it is a great league for the kids to stay at home plain and simple.

Skatingslow · Post by **Skatingslow** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:37 pm

Packerboy you said "But which kids get noticed that other wise wouldnt have?" I can tell you from experience that the elite league opened doors that would not have been opened otherwise

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:48 pm

Kangas was not on an Elite league team, he was cut. That's whats wrong with the system and the whole hockey community saw it. Be it cronyism, or whatever you want to call it the league looks bad and is opened up for much deserved criticism now as to how teams are picked. Doors are opened based on who you are or where you're from; talent is not the top consideration. This proves packerboys comments more than any stats or press release ever will.

inthecorners · Post by **inthecorners** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:52 am

I have the same thoughts and feelings as both goldy and pack, but I would like to add that it also trickles down into the Select team selections and also the Gopher State selections....

mnhshock29 · Post by **mnhshock29** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:54 am

There are always errors in any selection process. Fortune 500 companies make bad hires...they also make many good ones. I think it's ridiculous to say that because one kid wasn't selected, all of the good things the league has played a role in go by the board. In my long association as a player and coach in MN hockey, I truly believe that this process and the people involved has the least politics and the least personal motivation of any program like this that I've seen. The league looks long and hard at "missed" players and evaluates why this happens. I can't really comment on Kangas. Clearly he has had a great year playing HS hockey against a mixed bag of competition. Does that mean that some of the other goalies referenced previously who played in the Elite League this year won't be even better when they're seniors? Only time will tell. The league is not perfect, but there are a lot of volunteers and excellent coaches, with a lot of years of experience, trying to work towards that. Of course, it's a bit ironic that some of the detractors are promoting the league as worthless and bad, but yet seem to feel this way because someone they know that they wanted so badly to participate, couldn't. If it's such a negative, why would you care if the player played in it or not? To re-emphasize once again, is the league taking sole credit for developing the players playing in the state tournament, committing to colleges, or getting drafted by the NHL? Absolutely not. Clearly many individuals played a role in developing these players for many years. I feel that these figures say either that we're furthering the development and exposure of these players, or we're attracting the best of the best...or hopefully both. Either way, the league's message is no different than the one communicated by the USHL (who boasted about Blake Wheeler--a Class A player who played in the Elite League and was drafted higher than any Minnesota HS player ever has been--before he ever played a game in that league), the NAHL, Ann Arbor, D-1 colleges (take a look at the U of M game program--are they the sole reason for their alums playing in the NHL), etc. The accomplishments of your alumni says something about you. This is about the kids. It's not a business. Those involved have lost more money and volunteer time than they'll ever gain from being associated with the league. Talk to the players, talk to their parents, talk to high school coaches, talk to college coaches, talk to NHL scouts. I have. The league is making a difference. For those of you inquiring about player selection for next year, please visit hselitehockey.com after the state tournament. The league will have information posted that will answer these questions at that time.

inthecorners · Post by **inthecorners** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:07 am

Yea and some things never change...or will they? Only time will tell right? The well thought out selection process of players won't change....who are you trying to sell now?

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:35 am

I know no one is ripping on the league here, just debating how much it is actually responsible for keeping kids around, but the thing that is for sure is that it sure isnt making more kids leave for juniors, and isnt taking away from the multiple sport athlete, thats why I think it is a great league. College and Junior scouts seem to like it a lot too. Even junior teams now have a better reference for scouting kids against good competition.

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:29 am

Alright, here's my opinion, not that anyone will care. I think the Elite league does a great job of picking it's players. I have not seen anyone who doesn't belong. I have seen about 6 games and the end of the year tournament. I'm sure kids get over looked but that's the breaks. There is really NO way around that. Stats don't lie, it keeps players here. Less have left to go play Juniors. Plain and simple. That's a plus as we do get to enjoy these guys in the tourney. For that I'm happy. My beefs. I don't think they take credit, but the line, "... who played in the Elite League..." bothers me and I think others. I see it hear on the board and in Let's Play Hockey all the time. I know they need to advertise, but people mistake this as 'taking credit' every time we hear it. It used to be free. Now you have to pay. I'm sure there are costs that need to be paid, but you survived a year without charging, it just was a little thing that bothered me. Lastly, but probably most importantly. You advertise 'Development'. You have the best coaching staff put together for a league ever. You that compare this to other Fall Leagues... think about the coaches they had, no where near this leagues. But... these ARE the people the State looks up to for advice on how to train their athletes. Many of them speak at the coaches clinics and write in Let's Play Hockey on how we should develop our kids, and we with open ears listen to them preach less games, more practice, that's were it's at. My round-a-bout point is, why don't you practice more? From what I gather the teams are so spread apart it's tough to practice and when they do have them in the cities I hear lots of kids just don't go without punishment. Team Wis. likely never pratices being so spread out as the same with Team North Dakota. It is for this reason I feel like the league misrepresents itself. It is unreal for exposure, no doubt about it, they might not be anything better for it. But from the people who preach to us to limit games and increase practice time and share ice to get kids with pucks on their sticks, why don't they follow through? So my point is. Don't tell us it's about development, market it as exposure against great competetion. You've told us what development entails, and you guys aren't even close.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":(">

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:34 am

Originally I thought a major idea behind the the league was to keep the seniors in the league, to keep them from drifting away. So I still don't see where a freshman from Rosemount or a JV kid from Moorhead should have even been nominated let alone gain a spot. I guess Moorhead's JV team plays a less "mixed bag" schedule than Century's varsity team, I'm sure tems like Edina, BSM, Lakeville, and John Marshall agree with you. In souhern Minnesota we were much better served by AAA hockey in exposing kids than by the Elite League, John Notermann deserves allot of respect and credit for all the work he does there. Are there 7 kids from Jefferson better than all but one kid from 1AA out there, not even close, but that's what happened. The Lake conference is over represented, a straight bias. Lake teams have gone 4-12 in the past 5 state tournaments. Are you attracting the best, or just getting kids from the perceived best programs? The Elite League does a nice service and the people involved deserve credit for the time and effort they put in.

Whatwillwork · Post by **Whatwillwork** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:45 am

Someone from Section 1 criticizing another section? What's Section 1's only win, isn't it against WBL? I suggest the Rochester Schools playing a schedule like Duluth East if they truly want to get over the hump, otherwise keep on getting beat when you play quality competition.

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:47 pm

whatwillwork, we should try to keep this on topic. If you want to comment on a section you should open up a thread to do so.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:56 pm

The first 80 or so kids that are in the league are there because 1- they were there the year before (and most desrve to be back - if there was a problem then they may not be back) 2- they have been ID in another fashion (selects, coaches etc - but have been approved by Russo and crew... not one person returning a favor) 3- they go through tryouts (including all goalies that are not returnees) these kids are evaluated by a group of 20 - 25 highly regarded hockey people (with calls to other sources) at at meeting to try and get those that should be in the league in the league. (including alternates) I am sure people have bias (we all do) but I have never seen it. And I have been doing this since the beginning of the old project prep.

Ibleedgreen · Post by **Ibleedgreen** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:31 pm

let's face it, there always has been and always will be politics involved. the elite league is not responsible for developing any players. what it is responsible for is giving some players a chance based on coaches recommendations and favors for friends. i know for a fact that there have been many favors done in the first few years of the league and some deserving kids have been left out because they are not "connected" with the people that have all the say in the league. the illusion that kids are given free entry to the league based on objective evaluations, playing credentials, tryouts, or scout rankings or evaluations is just plain not accurate. some of the players that have played in this league are average high school players at best where there have been too many kids passed over for various political reasons. in the first few years the majority of players have been given a free ticket to the league. others have had to tryout and either did or did not make the cut. some were supposed to tryout but were physically unable to but ended up on teams anyway. others have mysteriously had their tryout applications misplaced or lost in the mail and were not able to tryout. hartzell knows about all of this since he is one of the biggest violators of the "elite" system. he continues to be the biggest proponent of the league and system so that he can take care of his kid, his buddies kids, and any other connections he has in hockey that could benefit him or his kid personally. the idea of the league is a good one however the rules are stretched for so many that really screws with the integrity of the entire league and its purpose. it is bs and the ultimate hypocrosy to pretend that this league is run above board and only those that earn a spot or are deserving get in.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:44 pm

Intersting to hear people that can claim for a fact that somehting has happened. And funny that I don't recognize any of you people being in the room when the decisions are made. And some have mentioned names - Russo & Kevin H. - but there are more than 2 people in the room. And I am one of them -- so if you are saying they, then I assume it must include me - and I resent that. First, becasue that is not me. And second, you have no idea who I am to make that judgement. Packerboy makes good claims based on his own personal feelings and principles. Most of the rest sound like sour grapes. And when I get insulted - I am kind of old fashion - let's step outside and then go ahead call me a liar. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... liott70</A> at: 3/4/05 3:47 pm

Whatwillwork · Post by **Whatwillwork** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:44 pm

And here come's Notermann with his "unbiased" opinion.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

Ibleedgreen · Post by **Ibleedgreen** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:53 pm

%%WORD0%p easy tough guy............you only issue the challenge because you know it would never happen......we live in a very litigious society.......and besides somebody (probably both of you) would get hurt. i am sure you are so sensitive to what is being stated as fact because you have to hold up the righteous facade of the "elite" league. try not being so righteous and just follow your guidelines. you know........make every kid earn their spot.

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:05 pm

My team this fall plays a style more similar to White Bear Lake and Elk River do very aggressive and our kids thrive in it. To think that you can give 30' of space to the #1 and #2 teams in the state and win is ridiculous. I think I would like the opportunity to take the Century boys and in two weeks play Moorhead and White Bear and see what happens. I know last spring in the Advanced 17's using my style of Play we beat Section 8 by a score of 5-2 or something like that. I respect both the Moorhead and White Bear Lake programs and the Duluth East Goaltender but the difference is the style. I don't understand being in a 2-0 game and not forechecking and not getting the defense up in the play. Sorry but I just don't think it is fair to our boys and our younger boys futures to be tied to these two games by Century. They were pathetic period... Alex Kangas played well and I think the sophomores played well but they all could have played better. Hockey Nut in So. MNEdited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... xfan>Sioux Fan</A> at: 3/4/05 4:10 pm

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