Positive Ways to improve Minnesota Hockey

slapshot 69 · Post by **slapshot 69** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:12 am

You made all good points.

puckboy · Post by **puckboy** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:09 pm

great points hockeynuts27. just curious what Associations are you with. They should give you a waiver if they will not be fielding an A team.

falkster09 · Post by **falkster09** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:15 pm

Do away with FPP's, and make offsides tag-up. Falkster

egoalie33 · Post by **egoalie33** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:39 pm

if they did that i would be very happy

StoppatchFairplayHelmets0 · Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:38 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Minnesota Hockey has to come up with a way to even the playing field<hr></blockquote> This is what has always been the problem with MH In their effort to tinker with the game they are going to destroy it. In my user name I would have added blue puck but ran out of characters. Get rid of Patch. Get rid of Fair Play. Get rid of Helmets for people who volunteer? Get rid of blue puck. Let the Ref's Ref the game and control the arena. Give the kids back the game with fewer rules that don't do a thing accept cost money. All these rules are like Taxes... the more tax the less spending money. The more rules imposed on a game... the less game for the kids... and less development. The more people the more voice and the more stupid ideas about how to fix something that they broke in the first place-- Get the MH board down to 10 members plus Chairman. Don't care where they are from, less is better. And finally, Bring back 15 minute periods.

big7stars · Post by **big7stars** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:49 am

Finally, Someone that is thinkig straight. In this day and age of the do gooders finally another person that is old school. "GIVE US OUR GAME BACK"

Hockeynut027 · Post by **Hockeynut027** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:38 am

I think I need to clairify my statement about leveling the playing field. In no way did I mean that MH should add any more rules or regulations. What I should have said was that they need to come up with a way to give every kid the same opportunity to skate at the level they deserve. I see so many kids from small associations that are never given the opportunity to grow and compete at a higher level. Minnesota Hockey won't even consider them for their own Select ( oops, I mean Advanced ) program. Instead they are told tough luck, if you association only skates at the B level than that is all you get. Think about it, how many of the 1000's of kids playing in that situation have ever gone on to play at a higher level? Very few if any. As far as being able to waiver out, most host associations will waiver kids if they feel there is a disservice being done. The problem is finding an association willing to take in a skater from outside their boundries. Every board says the same thing " if we put a skater on our A team from outside of our boundries then we are going to have to listen to 15 sets of parents on our B team cry about how that kid took our kids spot on the A team". Can't blame them for not wanting to deal with that headache. That leaves skater A with no options within MH. Maybe they don't care. Why can't MH get involved and find a way to make a program for kids in the above situation. In D10 for example there are 10+ programs every year that choose not to play A hockey. I gaurentee that there is enough talent in those associations to pool together a quality team. It would only help those kids and give the other A teams in the district another quality team to play. Smaller B associations could merge their upper traveling programs, lots of different options. Instead MH allows associations to be influenced by people with no hockey knowledge and who's interests are strictly for their skater with no thoughts of the bigger picture. Then they wonder why kids are starting to defect to other programs. This is only going to get worse and soon MH will be no different than everyone else. All because the powers that be within MH refused to see the change coming. Stop spending all your time and money on screwing up the game on the ice and start focusing on what is really important.

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:48 am

District 10 does allow smaller associations to merge together in order to have A teams. Its up to the associations to get together and organize the program for that year/s. The district oversee's to make sure its run properly/fair to everyone. The problem does not rest with D10, the same problems you pointed out are at the local assoc board. PARENTS fight to keep this from happening, WE WONT PLAY WITH THOSE JERSEYS!, WE WONT PLAY OUR GAMES AT THAT RINK!. If we could keep those few parents from ruining it for everyone then it would work. My oppinion is that players should play at their level based on ability only, A,B,C or whatever. A total redesign of the district rules of organization could help in this area, but it needs to come from Mn Hockey.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:57 pm

We ran our youth baseball program this way with very successful results, and still run our youth football program this way with very good results; with some modifications for hockey here it is. At the squirt and peewee level do away with all districts, do we really need a district/region/state champ for 12 year olds? All this does is create a needless beuracracy and force kids into a much too competitive environment for kids their age. Foer the parets who want it, let their kids go to a AAA type program. Every kid plays on a house team to start the year, this is their "home" team. After a certain date, say Jan. 1 for squirts, Dec. 15 for peewees, etc. an allstar/traveling team is picked from the house league to play games in addition to the house league schedule they already play. Those kids would then be on 2 teams. The major benefit is it allows kids who choose to play other sports like football in the fall, baseball in the summer, etc. to in essence get their skating legs before tryouts and puts everyone on a more even setting. Also the "try-out" is not a 2 hour ordeal rather a month or more long audition. Not having traveling teams set in stone so early allows kids who develop later in their years to have a chance to move to a higher level of hockey than they otherwise would and it makes a move to reduce specialization in 1 sport. As it stands the kid who plays Pop Warner football is at a tremendous disadvantage to the kid who chooses (or is forced) to skate all summer and fall. Level the playing field by putting the top kids in a house league that brings the level of play in all players up. Reduce the game to practice ratio to a 1-1-1; meaning for every structured practice there is 1 unstructured practice (an uncontrolled scrimmage type hour where the kids play pick up hockey) and 1 game. Kids, for the most part, don't play pick up hockey on their own anymore so this unstructured practice replaces what has been lost. Kids having fun keeps them interested, coaches watch, but can't interfere except for safety or disciplinary reasons. The "house" league only runs Monday-Friday, traveling only runs on the weekends; the unstructured practices take place on the weekends. Kids are not excused from their house team requirements just because they get put on the traveling team, missing a house league committment carries consequences over to traveling league games, so kids and parents don't blow off the house league. Places like Lakeville and Wayzata that have enough youth teams run their own programs. Places like Richfield, Austin, etc that would have a very limited number of teams combine with nearby associations to form their house league, though their traveling teams would be independant. For example say Austin and Albert Lea each have 3 squirt teams, alone that's probably not enough to have their own league but together they have 6 teams, plenty to have a league. Thereby creating a league with very limited travel where there was none before. Places like Kasson with 1 or 2 teams would be put in a House league with Rochester or some other nearby association, again limiting travel and allowing some autonomy. The main benefit is keeping more kids playing for more years, allowing kids to develop at different rates and not punishing the ones who are late bloomers. Cost is reduced, you play with your friends and classmates. It also reduces the nepotism/cronyism that permeates any try-out structure: everyone sees over a course of a month or more who the better kids are and even more important reduces the pressure on kids because it's a longer audition. For the top level kid there is still 2-3 days a week to practice and play with other top level kids, for the less talented kid there is a chance to see where they need to take their game to get to that level.

Hockeynut027 · Post by **Hockeynut027** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:21 pm

I couldn't agree more, but I beleive that the District need to be a little more persuasive in getting the local boards to see the big picture. What happens now is a group of parents that feel that their kid was somehow slighted in the selection of the merger team get on the local board and dismiss the whole idea. This exact senerio happened this spring in Cambridge. They decided to merge last year with St Francis at both the PWA and Bantam A levels. While neither team was a power in the district, both teams were able to compete on a nightly basis with the big associations. Only a few times all year did either team get blown out. That is all they could have asked for. I know for a fact that the kids and the parents that were involved were excited to do it again this season. After finding out what worked well and what didn't, it could have been even better. Now Cambridge has decided not to try this again next fall. Instead, at the urging of a few loudmouth parents, they will try to go on thier own. I hope for the kids sake that it does not get ugly. They have only 1 returning skater from that A Peewee team and a B Peewee team last year that only won a handful of games. The real sad part is that if you asked any of the parents or kids that were on one of the combined teams last year if they would do it again I know you would have at least 95% say they would love to. Unfortunetly they will not get the chance. St Francis is in an even worse situation. They have only 9 2nd year skaters at the Peewee level. 3 returning PWA skaters and 6 PWB skaters from a team that went 0-22 in the district. No chance to skate A. Now 1 skater inparticular is left hung out to dry. This is where I believe D10 could get a little more involved. I would not want to see them force anyone to do anything, but I think they have an obligation to all the kids to make sure that things are done to serve all the kids, not just the ones whose parents scream the loudest. Better than that why not have a district driven program that would allow an association that does not have a A team at a particular level to host a district A team at that level. They could allow any kids from an association that does not have an A team at that level to come and try out for this team if they wanted. 15 more kids in Minnesota would be able to skate at an appropriate level. Who would it hurt? Just a thought. I am sure ther are a million ideas like this out there. I would just like to see MH try something new once in a while. It may not work but at least they could say that they are trying. JMO

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:30 pm

ttt t See redistricting for info on potential meeting. If that works, then I iwll shoot for another on topics being brought up here. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... liott70</A> at: 4/8/06 3:29 pm

Hawkeynuts · Post by **Hawkeynuts** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:00 pm

All of these opinions are valid but no where in this thread have I read about parent education? It is my belief that Hockey Parents especially need to educated in the value of team play and the understanding that every player has a role. I think because of the addictive nature of hockey and the competitivness to be number one within teams parents have become exceedingly jealous of one anothers children within the same team. "What camps are you attending?" and how much cash you can spend most times dwarf the need for teams to band together and make the most of they have. Ironically, most all great players were team players first and individuals second. Parents need to understand that being committed to the team first and their childrens individual success second will not only set them free from alot of stress they create themselves but also make the experience of playing yoputh hocky better for everyone.

minnyhockey · Post by **minnyhockey** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:12 pm

I think it will be a matter of time before an organization like Showcase Hockey becomes a year round opportunity. Why hassle with MN hockey? I could rample on for hours with all of MN hockey's new rules/programs etc. but it is not worth it, they are not listening! It sure is nice putting together a spring team and playing games, keeping score (yeah, their mites), using black pucks, not having to wear a helmet as a coach.... The kids seem to be having a blast. I still can't believe that so many people are sitting back and allowing these things to happen to our game. Why allow a few people (MN hockey) make life long changes to our game based on a few studies buy a few psychologists. They need to try coaching, or have a kid in the game, and then tell me what is right and what isn't. I'm fed up with the whole thing.... sorry, had to vent Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... yhockey</A> at: 4/10/06 10:13 pm

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:18 am

In regards to Showcase - I have heard a rumor that its in the works. Possible 2008 - 2009 season...

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:46 pm

Better invest in some more ice arenas as there would not be enough ice around to support both MN Hockey leagues and Showcase leagues. Why do you think Showcase is any better? I find those leagues very unorganized and unsupervised. If a kid gets thrown out of game and should be sitting the next, there is no teeth anywhere to ensure that. There is no predetermined age screening. You can have PWs playing Bantams in the youth league and in the HS league you have seniors playing freshman. What a recipe for disaster and injury that is. There is no roster verification. It is an attempt at organized pickup hockey at best. Oh, you mean Showcase AAA? Again, show me where there is any roster verification anywhere. Games or tournaments it doesn't matter. This is just more expensive and faster paced pick-up hockey that promotes goon style hockey. There are some AAA 'tournament teams' organized under Showcase that use their ice time for practices, play no league games and enter a few AAA tournaments. Those are serious teams with serious players and serious coaches who coach with discipline and integrity but that would not satisfy those looking to watch/play all the games they can possibly get.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:13 pm

Never said they where better organized. I agree 100% with everything you said. Just passing along the information I heard. I am sure MNHOCKEY would have something to say about this but then again, USA HOCKEY and MNHOCKEY are a monopoly for hockey in our state. I would guess, only guess that the individuals that run Sowcase could come up with a very competitive and organized hockey that would compete against MNHOCKEY. They offer what parents want - more games!

puckboy · Post by **puckboy** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:50 pm

they would struggle to find ice time

minnyhockey · Post by **minnyhockey** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:53 pm

I said an organization LIKE showcase, not necessarliy them. Ice time would become available as associations begin to shrink from it. It may never happen, but if MN hockey continues in its direction it may at some point drive too many people away.

upucker · Post by **upucker** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:26 pm

What happened to obtaining the USA Coaching Card in progression? The first year you coach you get Level 1, the second year coaching you get Level 2, etc. etc. And what happened to the test that they used to have to take? Now we have guys going from Level 1 to Level 3 all in one year. Some with no coaching or playing experience and after going to a few classes are deemed qualified to coach. Bottom line USA Hockey just wants the money, if they truly wanted better coaches they would educate in progression, on ice and off, and test. Break it down to what age you are going to be coaching. I know there are some clinics on-ice but there are many that are just rushed through in a classroom.

inowitall · Post by **inowitall** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:26 am

I think we should start a grass roots effort right here and get rid of Minnesota hockey and the clowns that are ruining the game and create a better and more positive situation for our youth.

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:58 pm

What are your objectives for this? What rules would you choose to follow? How would you bring more quality and equality to the table? Who would register all the kids and ensure they are playing at the right ages, on the right team and only one team or would you allow the free agent system and kids could play anywhere and for how many teams they wanted? How would you structure associations within districts within regions if any? What insurance would you provide at what cost? What would be your grievance process? Would you have district, region and state tournaments? How would you qualify teams and who would set the tournaments up and run them? Why don't you just get involved at the association, district or MN Hockey level now and change things from within instead of telling other people what they SHOULD be doing? Elliot is attempting to glean the information of what needs fixing from these forums. Why don't you be part of the solution instead of more of the problem? Pick your area of highest passion and get involved to make it better for all the kids.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:44 pm

I would check out the annual meeting dates for your association, district and the State meeting is at the end of April at the Holiday Inn in Detroit Lakes.Get involved and be part of the solution.

inowitall · Post by **inowitall** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:30 pm

Enough said I will make my kids play basketball, cheaper and less structure. You think there are more standout players today than say 10 years ago. In my opinion I don't think so.

tjhd5 · Post by **tjhd5** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:41 am

showcase , you are only one lawsuit away from having this whole thing fall apart,,, Why dont you ask showcase to see thier insurance for this, I bet they dont have any or rely on yours,,,,,,,, yes MN Hockey has some strange, {very stange} ideas at times, but i do believe some of these are be dictated to them by insurance providers,,,Get involved to make the changes,,, if they are valid, they will be heard,,, but come on if you want all of us to believe traveling and always playing games at the mite age is the way we are supose to go then you are off your rocker,

PAMESH · Post by **PAMESH** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:31 pm

I have a great idea lets have district tryouts for A teams. Each district runs a tryout for 8 district teams. These teams play each other and the other district teams. Now the kids playing in Wayzata that can make an A team on any other association can play A's. The B player at cooper is not forced to play and struggle on an A team that can't compete. For those kids who do not make the team they go back to their associations and skate B's. If you want to try out for the district teams then you pay an extra $60. This will keep some players from trying out. To make it fair District 6 runs the tryout for District 3 and so on and so forth. This will provide balance it will give choice and be more fair by eliminating board members influencing the situation.

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