Section 7AA Seeds

[MWS coach]

Easy solution : Should East be in finals against southern sec team, on the day of the game they have to ride a bus half way to their opponents school then return to Duluth.

I laughed when I read this and then I realized how much sense it made. It wouldn't fly though. East would argue that they can't take kids out of school if they don't have to. Academics first.

On a side note, I don't buy the argument that 16-18 year old kids are affected by a 2 hour bus ride on a Charter bus. Somebody please tell me what the difference is between that and sitting at a desk in school, other than the seats being more comfortable on the bus, putting on headphones, getting fired up and thinking about the game. As opposed to sitting on a hard chair and listening to a lecture on the rise and fall of Western Civilization. This bus thing has been way overplayed.

Here is the difference Jeffy, most HS are done around 2:30 ish, if you live 5 miles from the rink you go home after school, follow your normal game day routine whatever that is and then head over to the rink. Riding a bus for 3 hours is not a normal routine for those heading north. Some Sr's that have the majority of their credits already earned don't have a full day schedule, thus may leave school earlier which allows them even more time between school and game to do whatever they do to get ready, which is not sitting on a bus. The bus ride is not the biggest advantage. The fact that many people, especially those with squirt/pee wee age kids will not make the drive north on a school night, thus getting the kids home at midnight. I also know many that won't let their HS age students go up to Duluth on a Thursday night. I have been to many section final games at both Amsoil and DECC and DE has majority of the fans. The atmosphere is overwhelming that of a home game, but with even more due to it being a section final.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a debate and so hard to understand - quote from Coach Gus in ER paper following win earlier in the season over DE:

“It was an awesome environment and I think our kids thrived off that. A big shout out to all our community and fans for really packing this place and making it a tough place to play today.”

To simplify if you still don't get it, players thrive off of a large crowd behind them and it makes the venue a difficult place to play = advantage

[Jeffy95]

Easy solution : Should East be in finals against southern sec team, on the day of the game they have to ride a bus half way to their opponents school then return to Duluth.

I laughed when I read this and then I realized how much sense it made. It wouldn't fly though. East would argue that they can't take kids out of school if they don't have to. Academics first.

On a side note, I don't buy the argument that 16-18 year old kids are affected by a 2 hour bus ride on a Charter bus. Somebody please tell me what the difference is between that and sitting at a desk in school, other than the seats being more comfortable on the bus, putting on headphones, getting fired up and thinking about the game. As opposed to sitting on a hard chair and listening to a lecture on the rise and fall of Western Civilization. This bus thing has been way overplayed.

Here is the difference Jeffy, most HS are done around 2:30 ish, if you live 5 miles from the rink you go home after school, follow your normal game day routine whatever that is and then head over to the rink. Riding a bus for 3 hours is not a normal routine for those heading north. Some Sr's that have the majority of their credits already earned don't have a full day schedule, thus may leave school earlier which allows them even more time between school and game to do whatever they do to get ready, which is not sitting on a bus. The bus ride is not the biggest advantage. The fact that many people, especially those with squirt/pee wee age kids will not make the drive north on a school night, thus getting the kids home at midnight. I also know many that won't let their HS age students go up to Duluth on a Thursday night. I have been to many section final games at both Amsoil and DECC and DE has majority of the fans. The atmosphere is overwhelming that of a home game, but with even more due to it being a section final.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a debate and so hard to understand - quote from Coach Gus in ER paper following win earlier in the season over DE:

“It was an awesome environment and I think our kids thrived off that. A big shout out to all our community and fans for really packing this place and making it a tough place to play today.”

To simplify if you still don't get it, players thrive off of a large crowd behind them and it makes the venue a difficult place to play = advantage

So the way I see it is there are two options.

1. Keep Whining about it year in and year out.
2. Do something to get it changed.

Good luck with #2 though, as it will always be at the best venue where they can make the most money. Name another city in the State that will buy Television rights to a Section tourney. That's because of how much we love Hockey up here. You think they're going to move it? That's the way the world works and life isn't always, "fair."

I mean, I hate being so good looking too, but you gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

[greenwayraider]

Maybe it would help if Elk River followed their team up to Duluth in greater numbers. The three years I've been going to the semis I though Elk River has had weak support from their fan base. I haven't seen two worse performances by a good hockey team than the two eggs Elk River has laid the last two years. There is no doubt in my mind that East, Rapids and Cloquet would bring more fans if the situation were reversed. If the Elks don't win this year I don't know when it's going to happen.

[east hockey]

Another factor is you can't beat the overall experience of going to a game at Amsoil Arena and being in Duluth with Lake Superior and Canal Park. A couple years ago stadiumjourney.com ranked Amsoil Arena the #1 sports experience for college or pros in all of North America. I have traveled to Wild games more than once through California and Arizona, been to Vikings games in Seattle and Cleveland, and going to games at Amsoil Arena ranks #1 w/o question. The Honda Center in Anaheim is a nice building, but outside the arena there is nothing nearby. Just one small pub across the street but that is it. With Amsoil Arena, you get Duluth's version of St. Paul's W 7th Street and the option of using the skyway system if it's below 0 and having a lot of options for dining and entertainment. In Minnesota we are very spoiled with awesome venues and in great settings. If you don't realize that, just travel and you'll come back and truly appreciate what you have in your backyard.

As a Duluth resident, I don't understand this st all. Amsoil is a pretty ugly arena, especially with the randomly colored seats. And definitely not even close to being the best stadium in college sports or pros (what the heck)

I think he was referencing the Canal Park experience more than anything. Outsiders are in love with that place. It's kind of funny because those of us that live here only go down there when we have to.

Only go down there:

1. On my way to Park Point
2. Old Chicago
3. Lakewalk

Otherwise, forget it. Especially in summer and during Bentleyville season. It's a mess.

[MWS coach]

I laughed when I read this and then I realized how much sense it made. It wouldn't fly though. East would argue that they can't take kids out of school if they don't have to. Academics first.

On a side note, I don't buy the argument that 16-18 year old kids are affected by a 2 hour bus ride on a Charter bus. Somebody please tell me what the difference is between that and sitting at a desk in school, other than the seats being more comfortable on the bus, putting on headphones, getting fired up and thinking about the game. As opposed to sitting on a hard chair and listening to a lecture on the rise and fall of Western Civilization. This bus thing has been way overplayed.

Here is the difference Jeffy, most HS are done around 2:30 ish, if you live 5 miles from the rink you go home after school, follow your normal game day routine whatever that is and then head over to the rink. Riding a bus for 3 hours is not a normal routine for those heading north. Some Sr's that have the majority of their credits already earned don't have a full day schedule, thus may leave school earlier which allows them even more time between school and game to do whatever they do to get ready, which is not sitting on a bus. The bus ride is not the biggest advantage. The fact that many people, especially those with squirt/pee wee age kids will not make the drive north on a school night, thus getting the kids home at midnight. I also know many that won't let their HS age students go up to Duluth on a Thursday night. I have been to many section final games at both Amsoil and DECC and DE has majority of the fans. The atmosphere is overwhelming that of a home game, but with even more due to it being a section final.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a debate and so hard to understand - quote from Coach Gus in ER paper following win earlier in the season over DE:

“It was an awesome environment and I think our kids thrived off that. A big shout out to all our community and fans for really packing this place and making it a tough place to play today.”

To simplify if you still don't get it, players thrive off of a large crowd behind them and it makes the venue a difficult place to play = advantage

So the way I see it is there are two options.

1. Keep Whining about it year in and year out.
2. Do something to get it changed.

Good luck with #2 though, as it will always be at the best venue where they can make the most money. Name another city in the State that will buy Television rights to a Section tourney. That's because of how much we love Hockey up here. You think they're going to move it? That's the way the world works and life isn't always, "fair."

I mean, I hate being so good looking too, but you gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

great answer. You know you have no actual comeback to the facts so you just avoid them, just like you avoid admitting that DE has an advantage.

[Jeffy95]

Here is the difference Jeffy, most HS are done around 2:30 ish, if you live 5 miles from the rink you go home after school, follow your normal game day routine whatever that is and then head over to the rink. Riding a bus for 3 hours is not a normal routine for those heading north. Some Sr's that have the majority of their credits already earned don't have a full day schedule, thus may leave school earlier which allows them even more time between school and game to do whatever they do to get ready, which is not sitting on a bus. The bus ride is not the biggest advantage. The fact that many people, especially those with squirt/pee wee age kids will not make the drive north on a school night, thus getting the kids home at midnight. I also know many that won't let their HS age students go up to Duluth on a Thursday night. I have been to many section final games at both Amsoil and DECC and DE has majority of the fans. The atmosphere is overwhelming that of a home game, but with even more due to it being a section final.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a debate and so hard to understand - quote from Coach Gus in ER paper following win earlier in the season over DE:

“It was an awesome environment and I think our kids thrived off that. A big shout out to all our community and fans for really packing this place and making it a tough place to play today.”

To simplify if you still don't get it, players thrive off of a large crowd behind them and it makes the venue a difficult place to play = advantage

So the way I see it is there are two options.

1. Keep Whining about it year in and year out.
2. Do something to get it changed.

Good luck with #2 though, as it will always be at the best venue where they can make the most money. Name another city in the State that will buy Television rights to a Section tourney. That's because of how much we love Hockey up here. You think they're going to move it? That's the way the world works and life isn't always, "fair."

I mean, I hate being so good looking too, but you gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

great answer. You know you have no actual comeback to the facts so you just avoid them, just like you avoid admitting that DE has an advantage.

I just gave you one. The facts are that they will use:

1. The Best Venue
2. If the Best Venue also makes the most money, end of story.

Which facts did I miss?

[MWS coach]

So the way I see it is there are two options.

1. Keep Whining about it year in and year out.
2. Do something to get it changed.

Good luck with #2 though, as it will always be at the best venue where they can make the most money. Name another city in the State that will buy Television rights to a Section tourney. That's because of how much we love Hockey up here. You think they're going to move it? That's the way the world works and life isn't always, "fair."

I mean, I hate being so good looking too, but you gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

great answer. You know you have no actual comeback to the facts so you just avoid them, just like you avoid admitting that DE has an advantage.

I just gave you one. The facts are that they will use:

1. The Best Venue
2. If the Best Venue also makes the most money, end of story.

Which facts did I miss?

I guess you don't have the brains to go along with your good looks!

I get why it is held at Amsoil, that doesn't mean it isn't an advantage........Yeah the DECC was a beautiful place to hold it as well. You are correct about one thing, the only reason it is there is the almighty $$$ of TV revenue for MNHSL.

[The Bone]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

[Schotzy]

WOW! Just read this whole thread. A lot of butt hurt going on all up in here.

Bottom line is the money, Amsoil is the best venue in the section, and historically Section 7 has represented North Eastern Minnesota.

Money wins every time. The venue is what it is. The MSHSL would never, in a million years, take the section finals from NW MN. They would completely blow up the section assignments first.

Is it an advantage for northern teams? Damn right! Crying about it is not going to change one thing. Accept it, get over it, move on. If you want to change it, get your team aligned with a metro section.

Full disclosure: I am a HS Hockey purist. I blame this all on breaking the teams up in to A & AA. I think that is the only thing to complain about here. If it were all one class, this would be a non issue, and ER fans would be crying about having to play Maple Grove, Centennial or Blaine every year.

But can you imagine having a true north section playoff? It would be awesome! Hermantown, Hibbing, East, Cloquet, Grand Rapids, Marshall, Greenway, I-Falls and the rest? Oh man!

Only a dream........

[Schotzy]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

[Jeffy95]

great answer. You know you have no actual comeback to the facts so you just avoid them, just like you avoid admitting that DE has an advantage.

I just gave you one. The facts are that they will use:

1. The Best Venue
2. If the Best Venue also makes the most money, end of story.

Which facts did I miss?

I guess you don't have the brains to go along with your good looks!

I get why it is held at Amsoil, that doesn't mean it isn't an advantage........Yeah the DECC was a beautiful place to hold it as well. You are correct about one thing, the only reason it is there is the almighty $$$ of TV revenue for MNHSL.

Okay, you guys might be on to something here. I just left Amsoil and Randolph was there. He was rigging up an audio connect in the East Player bench to stream artificial crowd noise from his iPhone. I reminded him to put it on Airplane Mode to make sure he doesn't get a phone call and give it away. He thanked me and gave me an eerie grin that reminded me of Igor in the kid's movie.

I thought sprinkling the beach sand in Elk River's bench two years ago was genius, but this guy doesn't stop working. He was also wearing a Belt Sander on his tool belt. I'm not sure what that was for and I didn't ask as it was kind of an awkward situation.

I also see that a James Randolph is the head official for all games this year. I'm sure that's just a coincidence and there's no relation but I thought it was kind of funny given all the recent talk about home ice advantage......

[alcloseshaver]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

[Jeffy95]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

Yes they do. They buy the rights a couple weeks ahead of time so they can sell the advertising spots. The game is on regardless of who is in it.

[alcloseshaver]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

Low ratings then.

[alcloseshaver]

Region secretary is former Denfeld AD Doug Maciver and 7AA hockey tournament director is Shawn Roed AD at East. Amsoil is fine, Just win once in a while to alleviate the issue.

[Jeffy95]

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

Low ratings then.

They don't get paid for the ratings. If they sell out the spots, they broadcast it. A lot of spots aren't sold until they know the teams though, so they target businesses in those towns when they find out. Makes it much easier if a Northern team is in. Two is even better.

[alcloseshaver]

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

Low ratings then.

They don't get paid for the ratings. If they sell out the spots, they broadcast it. A lot of spots aren't sold until they know the teams though, so they target businesses in those towns when they find out. Makes it much easier if a Northern team is in. Two is even better.

Got it, just seems odd that it would work with out of area teams.

[Jeffy95]

Low ratings then.

They don't get paid for the ratings. If they sell out the spots, they broadcast it. A lot of spots aren't sold until they know the teams though, so they target businesses in those towns when they find out. Makes it much easier if a Northern team is in. Two is even better.

Got it, just seems odd that it would work with out of area teams.

It would definitely be a tougher sell but they could probably pull it off. It's still a Section Championship on TV. That's great Hockey. People up here would still watch.

[Schotzy]

Can anyone bring some facts to the table:
Where does the money go for the TV Rights, is it the MSHSL?
What is the dollar amount these rights are sold for?
What is the length of the contract for the broadcast rights?
What other details might be part of this agreement?

Yes, money goes to the MSHSL
The dollar amount is some where around $3,000.00 per game....been a while since I have seen the figures
Contract is year-by-year the last time I looked.
Not much else in details really, but if the game moved away from Amsoil to some of the other mentioned venues, the games would not be televised.

WDIO has to pay quite a bit to air these games with staff, talent, and equipment rental. Add on the cost to transmit the signal from a far-off venue, and there goes any realized profit, which is near nothing already.

The money goes to the Region not MSHSL. Funds all other sports in Region 7. They would not broadcast if say Andover played Flake in the final.

Not true. It is MSHSL. I know this for a fact. I work in television in the local market, and have seen the paperwork for the bidding process.

You have already been set straight on the airing of the game if no local teams are in the final. They already paid for everything....trust me....the game will air regardless if there were no local teams. Rating could be bad, but that is not the point for something like this.

[Schotzy]

It would definitely be a tougher sell but they could probably pull it off. It's still a Section Championship on TV. That's great Hockey. People up here would still watch.

So true!

[alcloseshaver]

It may say MSHSL on the paper work but the proceeds go to Region 7AA. The MSHSL oversees the finances and the Region secrataries are paid a salary.

[Rich Clarke]

There's no question that the venue benefits East and hurts ER. None. Also no question that it isn't going to change any more than the location of the state tournament. The question is how much the advantage is, and whether it has an effect on who wins or loses. Between two equal teams? I suspect the local team beats the bus team more often than not. But is that what we're talking about?

The Elks were considerably better than East in 2015--sorry to say but true. Venue had nothing to do with why they lost, or were in the position to lose. They lost because East played so well that they eliminated the talent difference and by the end of the game were dominating. Hats off to East, but the Elks need to look at their own play before looking to the venue.

And what else happened that year? The poor Greyhounds had to travel to St. Paul and play another clearly superior team in St. Thomas, and overcame them as well. (yes I know they arrived the night before and stayed in a hotel, but in both games they ripped through considerable adversity).

This year East is struggling far more than 2015, and the Elks have consistently been held out in this forum as a top 3-5 team. If they are as good as everyone says they should win definitively, and if the venue plays a role it should only affect the final margin. If East wins, it'll be because they earned it plain and simple.

[goldy313]

Where should they play it if not at Amsoil? How many rinks in the section seat 4000+? Heck how many in the state do?

They have the same problem in 1AA, there is only 1 rink in the section capable of hosting due to seating capacity, the alternative is basically only Mariucci and that isn't economically feasible.

Football, in most sections, went to neutral sites, attendance has suffered and the atmosphere can be horrible with small crowds.

[Goldyismoldy]

This bus thing has been way overplayed.

I don't know, Jeffy95, they don't call them "bus legs" for nothing. Can't say I've ever heard of "school legs".

Moorhead and East travel just fine. They need to to play competition that furthers the growth of the team. They're success doing so, kinda suggests that "bus legs" is a state of mind. Of course if you need an excuse, feel free to play that card if you've got nothing else.

[alcloseshaver]

Where should they play it if not at Amsoil? How many rinks in the section seat 4000+? Heck how many in the state do?

They have the same problem in 1AA, there is only 1 rink in the section capable of hosting due to seating capacity, the alternative is basically only Mariucci and that isn't economically feasible.

Football, in most sections, went to neutral sites, attendance has suffered and the atmosphere can be horrible with small crowds.

Neutral sites in football for section finals were jam packed in the metro. Bigger stadiums with field turf.