Ridiculous Statement (made by Edina Dad)

[muckandgrind]

Still, Edina's dominance at most youth and girls levels (A and B anyway) is significantly more consistent than their occasional dominance at high school varsity. Why?

Wayzata HS beats Edina HS in 2018, no contest? I'll take that bet.

Easy answer....many of the top youth players in Edina (and Wayzata) bolt to other high schools like BSM, AHA and Breck.....Watch out for Holy Family also plucking some more talented SW Metro players in the near future...they are building a solid program.

[DumpandChase1]

Enough is enough already. I find it funny how people come on this topic that are not from Edina and have nothing to do with the association, yet want to tell them how to run it. Mind your own business, and worry about your own association. Last I checked, Edina is doing just fine without all the outsiders telling them how to run things.

If Wayzata wants to have 2 equal A teams, great, thats their business, not anyone's from outside the association.

Just because Edina has had a lot of success in recent years at the youth level, now they should "dumb" down their teams to make it fair? Life isn't fair, so get used to it and make your association better.

By the way Irish, Scotty Bowman would not be able to win state at Kennedy.

[Irish]

Enough is enough already. I find it funny how people come on this topic that are not from Edina and have nothing to do with the association, yet want to tell them how to run it. Mind your own business, and worry about your own association. Last I checked, Edina is doing just fine without all the outsiders telling them how to run things.

If Wayzata wants to have 2 equal A teams, great, thats their business, not anyone's from outside the association.

Just because Edina has had a lot of success in recent years at the youth level, now they should "dumb" down their teams to make it fair? Life isn't fair, so get used to it and make your association better.

By the way Irish, Scotty Bowman would not be able to win state at Kennedy.

I'm not from Edina. I'm not worried about Edina. I actually have a bunch of friends from Edina.
Any which way you spin it. I feel any larger association should have two Peewee A teams. That's my opinion. If they don't, no big big deal.

I also feel if Edina has used the same coach for years and he's been successful there's no reason to make a change. But I also know Edina. Anything can happen. We just have to wait to see who's more dominant in the end.

As for the current PWA coach. Do you suppose he's successful based on the talent he receives each and every year? I'm not trying to take anything away from this guy, but lets be real. He's not suffering from lack of talent.

[DumpandChase1]

Irish, Edina has had talent for as long as I can remember, yet the last pee wee A championship was 1972 before the current coaching staff arrived. You can screw up talent too.

[hockeymannorth]

my only problem is when edina plays 2 lines and lets other sit because they put winning over kids getting fair play

[hockeymannorth]

[quote="hockeymannorth"]my only problem is when edina plays 2 lines and lets others sit because they put winning over kids getting fair play,but i've seen lots of other teams from big hockey associations only put 11or 12 kids on there teams too,if they are as good as they like think they could win with 17 kids and fair play

[Irish]

Irish, Edina has had talent for as long as I can remember, yet the last pee wee A championship was 1972 before the current coaching staff arrived. You can screw up talent too.

Very True! What took Edina so long to find a new coach?

[The Huge Hook]

my only problem is when edina plays 2 lines and lets other sit because they put winning over kids getting fair play

Never seen it I've heard about it from people outside of the association, but I've never seen it in any game I've ever watched (a lot).

Why doesn't your team roll the lines very quickly, dump the puck, pressure them and tire their a$$es out??? Because it never happened, you just assumed it did.

[hockeygirl2]

Hi dumpandchase. You can ignore Irish because now that I think I know who he is you just needs to know that he stirs up trouble.

[Towelie]

Youth hockey is for development. Keep in mind that some will point out that Edina doesn't always take the best players each year. Some more talented kids get placed on PWB1 teams. This is wrong. Who cares who daddy is? If Edina created another peewee A team it only helps with the overall development of the players. I think everyone can agree majority of kids would love to win a Minnesota State High Championship in hockey. In order to do so each association should be developing at a younger age. Not to mention some of the top associations are losing some talented players to private schools. Why wouldn't you want to develop kids in peewee's?
Attn: Edina Parents: Ask your squirts A coach where his oldest son plays high school hockey? (hint: It's not Edina)

Remember hockey is a marathon not a sprint. I chuckle at all the parents open enrolling their kids to play in winning associations, or families moving just to be part of a winning association. Really? ](*,)

Like yourself they are all just trying to chase the pot of gold

[This is nuts!]

After reading the the above posts I would ask the following question? Lets say for instance, Edina evens their squirt teams out and they still maybe only lose a quarter or more of their games to other top Squirt teams who do put their best foot forward (which is a just about every other squirt team in the state) Dont' you think their would be a lot of pressure in the edina assc. to put one stong team on the ice and be the best?

And to think that the kids would have more fun playing more competitive games which mean losing a few is crazy. It might be a good lesson to lose a few, but I have never seen a kid not have fun winning games and being the best!

And as far as development goes which is what it should be all about. I m pretty sure no matter how you divide the kids up they will all continue to develop in the same manner, based how much kids skate in the winter and throughout the summer. Along with the quality of the instruction.

I m a north metro guy and admit I dont follow the southern metro teams, these are just some thoughts.

I was just wondering why Edina should not put out a top team at the squirt level, is it just to give other teams a chance?

In my opinion every assc should but a top team out there. Thats what we all want to see the best kids playing the best kids. When deciding what level to put the remaining kids? My thought is if you beleive a group of kids would be .500 at the "A" level, Play at the "A" level, dont, play "B" and win all your games. So in Edina's case if they have another 60 kids who could complete at the "A" level do so. Dont dominate "B"

In plain English put the kids at the level that they belong at based on their skill!

[muckandgrind]

My thought is if you beleive a group of kids would be .500 at the "A" level, Play at the "A" level, dont, play "B" and win all your games. So in Edina's case if they have another 60 kids who could complete at the "A" level do so. Dont dominate "B"

In plain English put the kids at the level that they belong at based on their skill!

Bingo!!!! We have a winner.....that's all I was trying to say.

If you have enough talent within your association to fill two teams that capable of playing "A" hockey with the rest of the District/State...then you should have two "A" teams. I applaud Wayzata for what they did. Sure, neither team is Top 5, but they are both Top 25. Which means ALL those kids are very capable "A" players and deserve to play at that level.

[Bluewhitefan]

My thought is if you beleive a group of kids would be .500 at the "A" level, Play at the "A" level, dont, play "B" and win all your games. So in Edina's case if they have another 60 kids who could complete at the "A" level do so. Dont dominate "B"

In plain English put the kids at the level that they belong at based on their skill!

Bingo!!!! We have a winner.....that's all I was trying to say.

If you have enough talent within your association to fill two teams that capable of playing "A" hockey with the rest of the District/State...then you should have two "A" teams. I applaud Wayzata for what they did. Sure, neither team is Top 5, but they are both Top 25. Which means ALL those kids are very capable "A" players and deserve to play at that level.

It depends on who defines "enough talent." In Edina, the top players/parents/coaches hold very strong in the belief that pathetic #30 doesn't belong in their club - and to this point, the board has agreed with them.

[spin-o-rama]

My thought is if you beleive a group of kids would be .500 at the "A" level, Play at the "A" level, dont, play "B" and win all your games. So in Edina's case if they have another 60 kids who could complete at the "A" level do so. Dont dominate "B"

In plain English put the kids at the level that they belong at based on their skill!

Bingo!!!! We have a winner.....that's all I was trying to say.

If you have enough talent within your association to fill two teams that capable of playing "A" hockey with the rest of the District/State...then you should have two "A" teams. I applaud Wayzata for what they did. Sure, neither team is Top 5, but they are both Top 25. Which means ALL those kids are very capable "A" players and deserve to play at that level.

When Edina did do 2 A squirt teams, the A2 team won only 2 or 3 games all year. So the .500 rule of thumb barometer would indicate 1 A team.
Of course, they would probably have .500 or better A teams if they were balanced, but why should a community be forced to do that when everyone else gets to compete with their top 15 (or less - see tonka)?

If it is such an issue to have Edina dominate in squirts, why do Bloomington and EP - the teams that play Edina the most - invite them to play in their squirt tourneys?

Personally, I think 2 balanced squirt teams with 11-13 skaters each would be a good experiment at Edina. After all, there is no state championship to play for. Maybe I just don't realize the importance of winning Fargo...

All this talk of Edina needing to forgo success in the youth ranks to better achieve at the HS level is amusing. Since when has Edina needed help at the HS level (insert Hurley joke)? And since when has anyone felt the need to help Edina?

[spin-o-rama]

My thought is if you beleive a group of kids would be .500 at the "A" level, Play at the "A" level, dont, play "B" and win all your games. So in Edina's case if they have another 60 kids who could complete at the "A" level do so. Dont dominate "B"

In plain English put the kids at the level that they belong at based on their skill!

Bingo!!!! We have a winner.....that's all I was trying to say.

If you have enough talent within your association to fill two teams that capable of playing "A" hockey with the rest of the District/State...then you should have two "A" teams. I applaud Wayzata for what they did. Sure, neither team is Top 5, but they are both Top 25. Which means ALL those kids are very capable "A" players and deserve to play at that level.

It depends on who defines "enough talent." In Edina, the top players/parents/coaches hold very strong in the belief that pathetic #30 doesn't belong in their club - and to this point, the board has agreed with them.

Interesting statement given that Tonka doesn't believe that pathetic #14 & 15 belong in their A club.

Forgive me if your Blue and White moniker isn't for the skippers.

[InTheKnow]

It depends on who defines "enough talent." In Edina, the top players/parents/coaches hold very strong in the belief that pathetic #30 doesn't belong in their club - and to this point, the board has agreed with them.[/quote

I guess you must have talked to those players, parents and coaches and they told you that. Or are you just another one of the Edina bashers getting in your cheap shot on the board because you can't beat them on the ice. Give it rest.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Parents of kids 1-15 want to win championships, parents of kids 16-30 want to develop more kids.

The truth is somewhere in between. The best kid on our team is a defensman, and his development is being ehanced since he has to make the same breakout pass 2 or 3 times to the bottom kid on the team on every breakout. We put him with the 3rd line because he helps keep the puck out of the net when those guys are on the ice. He doesn't like it, but it is what we do.

By going with the top 15 only every year, other intangibles are being neglected in the development of kids. The number of quality games is significantly reduced. The top forwards usually play with the other top forwards regardless, so going with two A teams does not necessarily hinder number #1 kids development.

It will be interesting to see if Wayzata sticks with it. Their PWs are not very strong this year when compared to other Wayzata classes, but they appear to be happy since they need to focus on other things than just thowing out the puck and letting them play.

Improving the kids ability to compete by putting them in a disadvantaged situation is development, regardless if it yields championships now, or later.

BTW, the Edina squirts that went with A1 and A2 did not have the depth to go with that format. Those kids on A2 did not even get to state two years later when they played B1 as PWs. Balanced squirt teams would have worked better for that group, with 12-13 skaters on each team.

[observer]

One thing all of us have seen is that by the end of the long season the top 1-2 players on the B1 team prove to be better all around players than the weakest couple on the A team. Families want to protect the status of being an A player but things change, or should change, every year. Every family that has an A Squirt figures he'll be an A PeeWee and Bantam too. Some associations seems to protect that status somehow. That's why B1 coaching is so important. The players usually just started later with their year around commitment but with solid coaching their better physical capabilities help them catch the early start smurfs. Come February 1st most A coaches would love to swap a couple with the B1 team. They didn't know that during tryouts but they know it today.

I will say I like the idea of a top team. Maybe A2 needs to work on a different schedule outside of District play, attend different level Tournaments, etc.

Tricky discussion with no two situations the same. I agree with Muck that #16 in any of the top associations would be A level in 90% of all associations. That's the tough part and that's why I've said their biggest benefit is they're outworking you to make that team. Very competitive in large associations. So many more kids are working on their game year around than 5-6 years ago where it might only be the A level kids playing summer hockey. And, not even all of them. There used to be 5-6 AAA teams per level and now there are 20.

[muckandgrind]

It will be interesting to see if Wayzata sticks with it. Their PWs are not very strong this year when compared to other Wayzata classes, but they appear to be happy since they need to focus on other things than just thowing out the puck and letting them play.

.

myhockeyrankings.com has Wayzata Blue ranked #11 and Wayzata Gold ranked #25. While they may be used to be in the Top 5 with only one team, I don't see how having two teams hurts them in the long run. They are both still very competitive teams at the Pee Wee A level.

[Bluewhitefan]

It depends on who defines "enough talent." In Edina, the top players/parents/coaches hold very strong in the belief that pathetic #30 doesn't belong in their club - and to this point, the board has agreed with them.[/quote

I guess you must have talked to those players, parents and coaches and they told you that. Or are you just another one of the Edina bashers getting in your cheap shot on the board because you can't beat them on the ice. Give it rest.

As a matter of fact I know many of them quite well - and I know there are always threats of departures to MN Made, Hopkins etc. if anyone messes with their formula. For someone that calls yourself InTheKnow, you sure aren't.

[Shinbone_News]

By now everyone accepts the idea that overspeed training is what really leads to accelerated development. The difference between a good team and a great team is not so much the skills as the quickness and speed at which those same skills are put to use. So a solid B1 player or A- player can improve a lot by being on a better (quicker) team and playing better (quicker) opponents. The fact is. we don't have to worry a lot about the best players -- the As and B1s, whether they win or lose, will take care of themselves, many in summer AAA programs. It's the Cs and B2s who might really make strides if they bump up a level, as a sort of domino effect. (Consider how many Bs Edina has at squirts-- and none of them B1s per se.) And that's where the conversation gets interesting I think.

It's just stupid to say anyone wants anyone else to "dumb down" their associations and emasculate their superstars to give "everyone a trophy." On the contrary, the conversation is how to develop deeper talent. In other words, how to spread the development around. Of course there are plenty of parents who don't want more competition from other players in their association, just as they want have their kids on an undefeated A team.

Anyway, I think Wayzata's board (and parents, probably) has less ego in the game than Edina's, but then they don't have the long history either.

[The Huge Hook]

By now everyone accepts the idea that overspeed training is what really leads to accelerated development. The difference between a good team and a great team is not so much the skills as the quickness and speed at which those same skills are put to use. So a solid B1 player or A- player can improve a lot by being on a better (quicker) team and playing better (quicker) opponents.

What?? Not if they cannot keep up with the fast/quick guys.

[The Huge Hook]

The fact is. we don't have to worry a lot about the best players -- the As and B1s, whether they win or lose, will take care of themselves, many in summer AAA programs.

Huh??? We can ignore the good players "we'll hold them back in the winter and then they can continue their development in the summer". Just crank the door wide open for winter AAA hockey (non-association).

Bernie just chuckled!!!

[muckandgrind]

The fact is. we don't have to worry a lot about the best players -- the As and B1s, whether they win or lose, will take care of themselves, many in summer AAA programs.

Huh??? We can ignore the good players "we'll hold them back in the winter and then they can continue their development in the summer". Just crank the door wide open for winter AAA hockey (non-association).

Bernie just chuckled!!!

Don't want to speak for Shinbone, but I don't think he meant to "ignore good players". The good players are already pushing themselves and their teammates...but that by bumping the B2 and C players up a notch would challenge them to get better by playing in a faster, more skilled environment.

...and splitting into two A teams wouldn't be "holding anyone back". As you can see in Wayzata splitting, they are both still very competitive in Pee Wee A hockey, as evidenced by their rankings and records.

[defense]

Whispers from the rink last night. While discussing next year's Edina Peewee A team. An Edina dad was asked if they will have 2 even A teams at Squirts and Peewees like Wayzata has done this year.

The guy said, "are you kidding (Edina's squirt coach) has lead Edina to an 80-0 record at Squirts the last two years, coaches 'these' kids all summer, why wouldn't they let him coach the Peewees and 1 team next year, they'd be stupid not to." This spoken in a win at all costs tone of voice.

This guy is a big mouth and is not representative of the silent majority in Edina (this is not an Edina bash). It is more of a statement about the state of affairs in how a vocal minority in Edina look at this topic.

My opinion is to get as many kids they can exposed to A play, especially in D6, as long as they are competitive. Sacrifice state banners at the Youth Level for banners at the HS level. I'm sure that this is not new ground on this board, but I'm new here.

I don't know many Wayzata folk, but I wonder how they feel about their 2 teams experiment and if they would recommend it to their Classic Lake brothers?

Do two equal A teams or just one A team. Kids develop at different rates, if they can be competitive in a given league, do it, or just do one A team.
To all hockey dads: Don't live through your squirt, peewee, or bantam for that matter...As the years go on, youth sports really become less significant to the kids who actually played them.