MR HOCKEY 2013

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:12 am

Besse has definitely improved defensively compared to last season, when I thought he was pretty much a one-way player, albeit a very excellent one-way player. But this year he is using both his body and teammates to much greater advantage, while still retaining all of his great sniping ability...the kid can really shoot the puck.

I'm sure the people who vote on this award will see what I've been seeing...he's become a much better two-way hockey player over the course of the past year.

nobama · Post by **nobama** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:26 am

13 shots 0 assists you need glasses

Nuts&Bolts · Post by **Nuts&Bolts** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:09 am

Another BSM addition would be a political play only. Winner is generally a forward and a defensive prospect isn't as strong as Exiled may want others needing attention to believe. Besse wins based on last years championship game and the fact he returned for his senior year but in the last month the best all around player IMO has been Koepke.

Post by **karl(east)** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:34 am

Gopher Blog wrote:The award is still special but it isn't like the finalist pool is as deep these days. With so much top talent playing elsewhere as seniors, winning the award just doesn't have the same prestige as 10+ years ago when almost all the best players in the state stuck with HS hockey until graduation.

I would disagree. Take a look at some of the names being nominated about 10 years ago (lists at the bottom here): http://www.vintageminnesotahockey.com/MNHSlHockey.html

A decent number of those players didn't even play D-I. Almost certainly fewer than the number of finalists who do so nowadays.

If you go 20 years back, it might be a different story. But players have been leaving early for a long time now, and there are fewer leaving early these days than there were in the early 00s. Despite the "sky is falling" cries we get on here every year, the number of early departures has been pretty steady since the creation of the Elite League.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:11 pm

Granted, there will be some less than stellar candidates from a long term potential perspective in any year... but the quality at the high end just isn't the same. Many of the very best potential candidates leave before they get to their senior year these days. (10 years ago was just a rough statement. Simply meant the earlier days of the award as much as anything).

Just look at some names missing this year alone that would have highly likely been among the final ten if they had stayed in HS: Fasching, Lettieri, Brodzinski, Gross, Ausmus, and Osterberg are just a few off the top of my head.

(Not gonna count Cammarata since he was at Shattuck when he went to the USHL)

But players have been leaving early for a long time now, and there are fewer leaving early these days than there were in the early 00s. Despite the "sky is falling" cries we get on here every year, the number of early departures has been pretty steady since the creation of the Elite League.

I don't care whether the sheer number of kids that leave early is steady. That may or may not be true. It is the quality of the player that is leaving early that matters in this discussion. The award field may not be barren of talent but it definitely doesn't have as good of a group these days.

Post by **karl(east)** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:23 pm

Gopher Blog wrote:Granted, there will be some less than stellar candidates from a long term potential perspective in any year... but the quality at the high end just isn't the same. Many of the very best potential candidates leave before they get to their senior year these days. (10 years ago was just a rough statement. Simply meant the earlier days of the award as much as anything).

Just look at some names missing this year alone that would have highly likely been among the final ten if they had stayed in HS: Fasching, Lettieri, Brodzinski, Gross, Ausmus, and Osterberg are just a few off the top of my head.

(Not gonna count Cammarata since he was at Shattuck when he went to the USHL)

But players have been leaving early for a long time now, and there are fewer leaving early these days than there were in the early 00s. Despite the "sky is falling" cries we get on here every year, the number of early departures has been pretty steady since the creation of the Elite League.
I don't care whether the sheer number of kids that leave early is steady. That may or may not be true. It is the quality of the player that is leaving early that matters in this discussion. The award field may not be barren of talent but it definitely doesn't have as good of a group these days.

I don't doubt that this is true. If there's any way to back this up empirically, it would probably be by comparing the number of early-round draft picks across the years. I may try to write something more comprehensive on this sometime over the next two weeks. There are a lot of moving parts, but it's an interesting question. As someone who's young enough that I've only ever known the current status quo, I'd be curious to learn when the shift happened.

minnscout · Post by **minnscout** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:06 pm

Besse wins no doubt are they even going to name finalists? Congratulations Mr Besse great season and great HS career.

OnFrozenPond · Post by **OnFrozenPond** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:18 am

minnscout wrote:Besse wins no doubt are they even going to name finalists? Congratulations Mr Besse great season and great HS career.

You are most likely correct that Besse wins the award. Hopefully he will be more gracious in reciving the award than your posts on this board.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:01 am

Nuts&Bolts wrote:Winner is generally a forward and a defensive prospect isn't as strong as Exiled may want others needing attention to believe.

Five of the last eight winners have been defensemen.

celly93 · Post by **celly93** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:33 am

OnFrozenPond wrote:
minnscout wrote:Besse wins no doubt are they even going to name finalists? Congratulations Mr Besse great season and great HS career.
You are most likely correct that Besse wins the award. Hopefully he will be more gracious in reciving the award than your posts on this board.

First: Well put OFP

Second: Those who think Besse will win based on last year aren't paying attention. He's actually on pace to score more goals than he did last season. He's leading AA in goals and fifth in AA for points despite playing one of the toughest schedules in the state.

The notion that he's not physical is outdated. Other than Seth Chumley, he's BSM's biggest hitter, but he does it within the rules. Through 14 games, he's been to the box just four times.

nobama · Post by **nobama** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:56 am

Assist me and i may get it. I just dont get it yet

Oldtimehockeyguy23 · Post by **Oldtimehockeyguy23** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:19 am

nobama wrote:Assist me and i may get it. I just dont get it yet

Try watching some games.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am

celly93 wrote:Second: Those who think Besse will win based on last year aren't paying attention. He's actually on pace to score more goals than he did last season. He's leading AA in goals and fifth in AA for points despite playing one of the toughest schedules in the state.

Agreed, much more physicality this year than last, and it's been very obvious in the half-dozen or so games I've watched. Also better in the defensive end, whereas previously I thought he was pretty much a one-way player, albeit an outstanding one!

What makes him so much more effective now is his much improved two-way play while still managing to retain all of his offensive capabilities.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:36 am

The CSS midterm rankings are out. NHL scouts have a strong part in selecting Mr. Hockey, so this is significant. Here are the seniors' ranks:

77 - Tommy Vannelli
115 - Zack Glienke
119 - Parker Reno
124 - Grant Besse
135 - Adam Johnson
143 - Jake Jackson
168 - Chris Forney

EDIT: I should also mention that juniors Connor Hurley, Teemu Kivihalme, Avery Peterson and Neal Pionk were also listed, so keep them in mind for Mr. Hockey 2014 (presuming they don't go to juniors).

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:51 pm

The CSS midterm rankings are out.

Man, these guys continue to embarrass themselves.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:32 pm

How many years has it been since a non-Gopher recruit has won Mr. Hockey?

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:57 pm

Murphy wrote:How many years has it been since a non-Gopher recruit has won Mr. Hockey?

2007 - Ryan McDonagh (Wisconsin)

and before McDonagh:

2005 - Brian Lee (North Dakota)

bardown27 · Post by **bardown27** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:06 am

besse with another five points last night. a hatty and two apples vs. mounds view. that makes 42 points (28g, 14a) in 15 games for grant. making a case for himself.

gitter · Post by **gitter** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:19 pm

observer wrote:
The CSS midterm rankings are out.
Man, these guys continue to embarrass themselves.

Trying to predict the future NHL potential of an 18 year old is about as easy as predicting where foreign currency pairs will be in 4 years. There are first round draft picks, even #1 overall, that never pan out, and you are complaining over the order of kids that can't even crack the top 100 (aside from Vanelli) of North American skaters (keeping in mind there is another set for European skaters - meaning they could be as low as #200-300 come draft day)?

Sheesh. I wish I had your crystal ball, I'd be making a ton of dough for some NHL franchise.

Tenoverpar · Post by **Tenoverpar** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:49 am

what about the goalie from STA...isn't he leading the state in all 3 goalie categories...the triple crown of the crease

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:45 am

Tenoverpar wrote:what about the goalie from STA...isn't he leading the state in all 3 goalie categories...the triple crown of the crease

Goalies have their own award: Frank Brimsek Award. Zevnik will be in contention for that, but goalies aren't (effectively) eligible for the Mr. Hockey Award.

As for the Mr. Hockey Award, I've been extremely impressed lately with the play of Glienke. He might have the most pro potential in the senior class. However, Besse's kicked it into another gear recently and is clearly pulling away from the field.

GTTN · Post by **GTTN** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:06 pm

Always thought Tommy V was over hyped but he played outstanding tonight and was a major reason tonka looked so good.

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:02 pm

karl(east) wrote:
Gopher Blog wrote:Granted, there will be some less than stellar candidates from a long term potential perspective in any year... but the quality at the high end just isn't the same. Many of the very best potential candidates leave before they get to their senior year these days. (10 years ago was just a rough statement. Simply meant the earlier days of the award as much as anything).

Just look at some names missing this year alone that would have highly likely been among the final ten if they had stayed in HS: Fasching, Lettieri, Brodzinski, Gross, Ausmus, and Osterberg are just a few off the top of my head.

I don't care whether the sheer number of kids that leave early is steady. That may or may not be true. It is the quality of the player that is leaving early that matters in this discussion. The award field may not be barren of talent but it definitely doesn't have as good of a group these days.
I don't doubt that this is true. If there's any way to back this up empirically, it would probably be by comparing the number of early-round draft picks across the years. I may try to write something more comprehensive on this sometime over the next two weeks. There are a lot of moving parts, but it's an interesting question. As someone who's young enough that I've only ever known the current status quo, I'd be curious to learn when the shift happened.

I have a little column somewhat inspired by this discussion here: http://mnhockeyprospects.com/2013/01/28 ... aft-picks/

It was interesting to look back at the draft status post-HS careers of past Mr. Hockey finalists, if nothing else.

minnscout · Post by **minnscout** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:10 pm

The goalie from St Thomas should have graduated last year, I think if your 19 years old you shouldnt be allowed to receive any post season awards. Same goes for Roo, Coatta and I am sure there are more. Anyone born before June should have graduated already. Just think back back to the year after you graduated HS and how much bigger and stronger you are.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:45 pm

minnscout wrote:The goalie from St Thomas should have graduated last year, I think if your 19 years old you shouldnt be allowed to receive any post season awards. Same goes for Roo, Coatta and I am sure there are more. Anyone born before June should have graduated already. Just think back back to the year after you graduated HS and how much bigger and stronger you are.

STAA is redshirting guys now?!?!?

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