Ridiculous Statement (made by Edina Dad)

[Bleed Maroon and Gold]

A couple points I want to make. First of not all associations that don't field an A team and field a B team are not out there beating everyone and thinking they are top notch. I know our association is fielding a Bantam B team and we are in 7th place in our district, I would love to see our association field A teams at all level and give the 1 or 2 kids on our team that are true A level players be able to play at that level.

The second thing is that kids that play the B level absolutely have a chance to make the varsity team in high school. Here is a prime example. I know of a player that played B2 Bantams his first year. His second year he played B1 Bantams. As a sophmore in high school he is now on the starting line for Varsity and has actually been looked at by a few Junior teams. It all comes down to how hard the player works on his skill to progress to the next level. If the kid gives 75% at practice and in the off season does nothing but sit on the couch and play video games his progress will be different than the kid that works 100% all the time plays other sports and works hard in the off season.

As for teams have two A teams I can see the positives and negatives in the whole deal. I for one loved when I played going to play these big associations and beating them maybe once every couple years but it was great. I know now coaching that I don't shy away from getting our kids on the ice against these kinds of teams. It is good in many different ways.

Just my 2 cents.

[The Huge Hook]

So the larger assc. have more kids working hard thus Edina should be better than Pine City every year. No matter what drills/coaches/whatever Pine comes up with.

No. Pine City (or whatever city) needs to have something more than 1 Dad, who knows little about hockey, teaching the kids the basics when they are very young.

In Edina, there are 15 dads at the Termite age (3,4,5) and 1/2 of them were pro in one form or another. These kids are learning edges and puck-handling with their head up before most kids begin any kind of formal hockey training. From very qualified instructors. And before we go to the indoor ice card (I have 5 indoor rinks within a mile) very nearly all is outdoors.....anyone can do it.

[muckandgrind]

So the larger assc. have more kids working hard thus Edina should be better than Pine City every year. No matter what drills/coaches/whatever Pine comes up with.

No. Pine City (or whatever city) needs to have something more than 1 Dad, who knows little about hockey, teaching the kids the basics when they are very young.

In Edina, there are 15 dads at the Termite age (3,4,5) and 1/2 of them were pro in one form or another. These kids are learning edges and puck-handling with their head up before most kids begin any kind of formal hockey training. From very qualified instructors. And before we go to the indoor ice card (I have 5 indoor rinks within a mile) very nearly all is outdoors.....anyone can do it.

Again, like I said....numbers and genetics. My bet is the kids of those 15 dads who played pro hockey are also pretty good, am I right??

[MrBoDangles]

Wayzata will develop their kids and Edina will develop their egos.

Those 1-15 players at Wayzata are having to work harder than ever being split up..... And their efforts are paying off.

Put those kids back together and they will mop Edina.

[The Huge Hook]

So the larger assc. have more kids working hard thus Edina should be better than Pine City every year. No matter what drills/coaches/whatever Pine comes up with.

No. Pine City (or whatever city) needs to have something more than 1 Dad, who knows little about hockey, teaching the kids the basics when they are very young.

In Edina, there are 15 dads at the Termite age (3,4,5) and 1/2 of them were pro in one form or another. These kids are learning edges and puck-handling with their head up before most kids begin any kind of formal hockey training. From very qualified instructors. And before we go to the indoor ice card (I have 5 indoor rinks within a mile) very nearly all is outdoors.....anyone can do it.

Again, like I said....numbers and genetics. My bet is the kids of those 15 dads who played pro hockey are also pretty good, am I right??

You are right, but so are the other kids who are taking advantage of the programs these guys are putting together, oftentimes better.

Again, not a matter of numbers, rather a matter of effort, focus and dedication.

We're not going to agree on very much here!!

[hunting247]

Why is it Edinas fault they are so good????? people move to Edina to be part of a top notch hockey program and just because they are good and beating your lesser teams you want to them to change. How about you ask your own associations to take responsibility of themselves and start teaching hockey

Thinking on this same line we should make the Machine Orange and the Blades split into lesser teams so they stop beating everyone.

this is the pussification of our world today........everyone gets a trophy and all the teams are the same. quit your crying and whining and deal with the fact that someone is better than you and its ok.

If this was an attempt at sarcasm, then you failed. If it's what you truly believe, then I really feel sorry for you.

I don't see any asking that everyone gets a trophy. What I think is that youth hockey would benefit by creating a system where there is some sort of parity based on the number of kids that try out at any given level. Little League has been doing this for years with their charter system, and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

If it's cool for you to see the same large associations at the top of the standings year in and year out, that's cool. To me, it's just become a big [YAWN]...and incredibly freakin' boring.

If you are someone who would actually choose to move their family to a location based solely on how competitive the youth hockey program is...then I TRULY feel sorry for you. You've seem to have lost all perspective.

I don't live close to Edina and yes I talk to alot of people who move to Minnesota and end up living in Edina because of the hockey program.

Please do not feel sorry for me because I am the one who feels sorry for you.

Again you are upset because Edina is clearly better than your team and society has created an idea that people, teams, should be created equal so everyone has a warm feeling inside of them, I am sorry you are brainwashed.

why don't you take the "bull by the horns" work with your association to make your teams more competitive??? but you won't and you will continue to whine because someone is better than you. Again I feel sorry for you!

you made the statement that you are tired of seeing them on top, why should the machine and the blades have the right to be on top????? I say you should march right into mn made and tell them they need to be less competitive so your kid will feel better when he plays them GOOD LUCK

[The Huge Hook]

Wayzata will develop their kids and Edina will develop their egos.

Those 1-15 players at Wayzata are having to work harder than ever being split up..... And their efforts are paying off.

Put those kids back together and they will mop Edina.

Once they hang 10 banners in their Varsity rink, we'll talk.

As for 1-15, working harder and going end-to-end every time they touch the puck because 28 and 29 can't keep up isn't development.

[muckandgrind]

Why is it Edinas fault they are so good????? people move to Edina to be part of a top notch hockey program and just because they are good and beating your lesser teams you want to them to change. How about you ask your own associations to take responsibility of themselves and start teaching hockey

Thinking on this same line we should make the Machine Orange and the Blades split into lesser teams so they stop beating everyone.

this is the pussification of our world today........everyone gets a trophy and all the teams are the same. quit your crying and whining and deal with the fact that someone is better than you and its ok.

If this was an attempt at sarcasm, then you failed. If it's what you truly believe, then I really feel sorry for you.

I don't see any asking that everyone gets a trophy. What I think is that youth hockey would benefit by creating a system where there is some sort of parity based on the number of kids that try out at any given level. Little League has been doing this for years with their charter system, and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

If it's cool for you to see the same large associations at the top of the standings year in and year out, that's cool. To me, it's just become a big [YAWN]...and incredibly freakin' boring.

If you are someone who would actually choose to move their family to a location based solely on how competitive the youth hockey program is...then I TRULY feel sorry for you. You've seem to have lost all perspective.

I don't live close to Edina and yes I talk to alot of people who move to Minnesota and end up living in Edina because of the hockey program.

Please do not feel sorry for me because I am the one who feels sorry for you.

Again you are upset because Edina is clearly better than your team and society has created an idea that people, teams, should be created equal so everyone has a warm feeling inside of them, I am sorry you are brainwashed.

why don't you take the "bull by the horns" work with your association to make your teams more competitive??? but you won't and you will continue to whine because someone is better than you. Again I feel sorry for you!

you made the statement that you are tired of seeing them on top, why should the machine and the blades have the right to be on top????? I say you should march right into mn made and tell them they need to be less competitive so your kid will feel better when he plays them GOOD LUCK

You sound like a young hockey dad....I was once a young hockey dad, so I guess I understand where you're coming from.

I don't have any beef with the Blades or Machine. The Blades and Machine teams are for-profit organizations that aren't tied to any geographical boundaries. They are free to go after any player they want. If you would like to open up Minnesota Hockey to Tier 1 AAA teams....then we can talk. I might be open to that.

Apples and oranges....but nice try.

Another thing...I've never referred to the teams my kids played on as "my" teams. They were always "their" teams. . Now, when I actually PLAYED youth sports, they were "my" teams.

[Shinbone_News]

Why does this conversation always turn into charges of "pussification"? The OP was about whether or not to have two balanced A teams. As far as I know, the thinking is not so that Little Johnny #16 gets the ego stroke of saying he made the A team. It's so that Little Johnny #16 has to step up his game to compete at the A level instead of B1, and in the long run Wayzata, for example, fields a much deeper Bantam A team and High School Varsity team, and stomps on Edina. Also provides the hockey world with potentially twice as many D1 or pro prospects.

On the other hand, the mission of USA Hockey and MN Hockey is specifically to help ALL youth hockey players reach their individual potential. So let's talk about whether THAT should be the priority, or whether we should be focusing on the top 2% that will ever play beyond high school.

[The Huge Hook]

Another thing...I've never referred to the teams my kids played on as "my" teams. They were always "their" teams. . Now, when I actually PLAYED youth sports, they were "my" teams.

We agree on something Drives me nuts, they do the work....not the parents!

[hunting247]

If this was an attempt at sarcasm, then you failed. If it's what you truly believe, then I really feel sorry for you.

I don't see any asking that everyone gets a trophy. What I think is that youth hockey would benefit by creating a system where there is some sort of parity based on the number of kids that try out at any given level. Little League has been doing this for years with their charter system, and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

If it's cool for you to see the same large associations at the top of the standings year in and year out, that's cool. To me, it's just become a big [YAWN]...and incredibly freakin' boring.

If you are someone who would actually choose to move their family to a location based solely on how competitive the youth hockey program is...then I TRULY feel sorry for you. You've seem to have lost all perspective.

I don't live close to Edina and yes I talk to alot of people who move to Minnesota and end up living in Edina because of the hockey program.

Please do not feel sorry for me because I am the one who feels sorry for you.

Again you are upset because Edina is clearly better than your team and society has created an idea that people, teams, should be created equal so everyone has a warm feeling inside of them, I am sorry you are brainwashed.

why don't you take the "bull by the horns" work with your association to make your teams more competitive??? but you won't and you will continue to whine because someone is better than you. Again I feel sorry for you!

you made the statement that you are tired of seeing them on top, why should the machine and the blades have the right to be on top????? I say you should march right into mn made and tell them they need to be less competitive so your kid will feel better when he plays them GOOD LUCK

You sound like a young hockey dad....I was once a young hockey dad, so I guess I understand where you're coming from.

I don't have any beef with the Blades or Machine. The Blades and Machine teams are for-profit organizations that aren't tied to any geographical boundaries. They are free to go after any player they want. If you would like to open up Minnesota Hockey to Tier 1 AAA teams....then we can talk. I might be open to that.

Apples and oranges....but nice try.

Another thing...I've never referred to the teams my kids played on as "my" teams. They were always "their" teams. (my kids have since graduated high school). Now, when I actually PLAYED youth sports, they were "my" teams.

Great, you sound like an old out of touch ex hockey dad...... good for you
thank you for clearing that up.

It is obvious that you have pent up aggression towards superiority and you feel the need to take it out on Edina.

Edina will usually beat both my sons teams 9 out of 10 times but do you see me crying?? no. They have better teams and deserve to win.

I am sorry you have lost all perspective on youth hockey. And want to pussify youth sports so everyone feels good about themselves.

and yes it is their team, they do all the work I am just there to make sure they have fun

[hunting247]

Why does this conversation always turn into charges of "pussification"? The OP was about whether or not to have two balanced A teams. As far as I know, the thinking is not so that Little Johnny #16 gets the ego stroke of saying he made the A team. It's so that Little Johnny #16 has to step up his game to compete at the A level instead of B1, and in the long run Wayzata, for example, fields a much deeper Bantam A team and High School Varsity team, and stomps on Edina. Also provides the hockey world with potentially twice as many D1 or pro prospects.

On the other hand, the mission of USA Hockey and MN Hockey is specifically to help ALL youth hockey players reach their individual potential. So let's talk about whether THAT should be the priority, or whether we should be focusing on the top 2% that will ever play beyond high school.

It becomes about pussification when people complain and whine about another team being too good and they should be less competitive so the other teams feel good about themselves.

[The Huge Hook]

, and in the long run Wayzata, for example, fields a much deeper Bantam A team and High School Varsity team, and stomps on Edina. Also provides the hockey world with potentially twice as many D1 or pro prospects.

By that logic, all 200 (guessing) squirts should play at the A level. Then they will have 18x as many D1 and pro prospects.

There is a diminishing return here, where is it??? When will #1-#5 begin to regress due to the talent level surrounding them. Just a question, I don't think I have a good answer.

[MrBoDangles]

Wayzata will develop their kids and Edina will develop their egos.

Those 1-15 players at Wayzata are having to work harder than ever being split up..... And their efforts are paying off.

Put those kids back together and they will mop Edina.

Once they hang 10 banners in their Varsity rink, we'll talk.

As for 1-15, working harder and going end-to-end every time they touch the puck because 28 and 29 can't keep up isn't development.

Edina is Hockey's "Cookie Cutter" capital... Some good players, but will never form a true standout.

Their A Squirt players are really being lulled to sleep. Would love to be the parent of Edina's A Squirt goalie.

[The Huge Hook]

Edina is Hockey's "Cookie Cutter" capital... Some good players, but will never form a true standout.

Ever heard of Bill Nyrop, Dave Maley or Paul Ranheim..........the first two won the big cup

[MrBoDangles]

, and in the long run Wayzata, for example, fields a much deeper Bantam A team and High School Varsity team, and stomps on Edina. Also provides the hockey world with potentially twice as many D1 or pro prospects.

By that logic, all 200 (guessing) squirts should play at the A level. Then they will have 18x as many D1 and pro prospects.

There is a diminishing return here, where is it??? When will #1-#5 begin to regress due to the talent level surrounding them. Just a question, I don't think I have a good answer.

Have 1-5 play as a unit.... It will only make them have to work harder to win a game.

[MrBoDangles]

Edina is Hockey's "Cookie Cutter" capital... Some good players, but will never form a true standout.

Ever heard of Bill Nyrop, Dave Maley or Paul Ranheim..........the first two won the big cup

The path is a whole lot different now.

[The Huge Hook]

, and in the long run Wayzata, for example, fields a much deeper Bantam A team and High School Varsity team, and stomps on Edina. Also provides the hockey world with potentially twice as many D1 or pro prospects.

By that logic, all 200 (guessing) squirts should play at the A level. Then they will have 18x as many D1 and pro prospects.

There is a diminishing return here, where is it??? When will #1-#5 begin to regress due to the talent level surrounding them. Just a question, I don't think I have a good answer.

Have 1-5 play as a unit.... It will only make them have to work harder to win a game.

What would happen to the other two lines then??? My guess is that they would get completely overwhelmed and not have much fun.

[YouthHockeyHub]

We did an article about this in November:

http://youthhockeyhub.com/the-wayzata-e ... play-down/

I wish I would have read this before I posted it. I look at it now and laugh at how on the surface it was compared to what has been shared here. This thread has seen mostly some great opinions shared (and a couple "Edina Sucks" and "Edina Rules" posts sprinkled in).

Funny thought: I think someone could come to this board and post next to nothing of substance and end it with "Edina Sucks" or "Edina Rules" and get 100 responses!

Have a good day fellas.

[MrBoDangles]

By that logic, all 200 (guessing) squirts should play at the A level. Then they will have 18x as many D1 and pro prospects.

There is a diminishing return here, where is it??? When will #1-#5 begin to regress due to the talent level surrounding them. Just a question, I don't think I have a good answer.

Have 1-5 play as a unit.... It will only make them have to work harder to win a game.

What would happen to the other two lines then??? My guess is that they would get completely overwhelmed and not have much fun.

No, they have to work harder! Do you get better playing against your little sister, the kid your age across the street, or your talented big brother?

Why do the talented travel to Canada and Europe for games?


*To find competition!

[whockeyguy]

maybe Mn Hockey should make them have two teams at the A level, seems if they can put associations all ove rthe countryside and make them move all around , i cant imagine that making them have two teams would be to tuff to do,, congrats to Wayzata, ,, hey Rochester maybe you should take note

[karl(east)]

I won't pretend to have a deep knowledge of this, but here's some fuel for the fire: in an interview last year, Duluth East coach Mike Randolph jokingly thanked the large metro associations for fielding single A teams (especially at the squirt level). He said the shortsighted focus on winning at the youth level made it easier for somewhat thinner programs (such as his) to compete with the state's largest programs.

[Irish]

First - I don't see anyone replacing JJ unless he is stepping down or planning on coaching a different level. The guy is a tremendous coach and gets his kids to compete at the highest level possible at the end of the season. Whether or not you like to say it...his State Titles prove this and even though he has had some great talent go through so have many other associations...bottom line it comes down to getting the kids to peak and stay mentally focused when the time is needed and he does that.

In regards to Wayzata. I would say that from listening to the people/parents/coaches in the association its quite a mixed feeling.
A - More than 17 kids get to compete at the highest level in Pee Wee's
B - Now slightly lesser skilled players who normally make a B1 team now have a shot to prove if they can compete at this higher level and develop their playing ability at a faster pace than the level below
C - Association takes a hit that year as you no longer can keep up with the top associations skating their top 15 skaters - even with large associations with lots of talent/players its difficult to finish in the top 5/10 in state.
D - I doubt you will see this next year or in future years and if they do, there will be an A1 and an A2 and it will go from #1 down to #34 and not split evenly. [/list]

Pinky, With respect. If JJ was coaching Bloomington Kennedy for the past ten years. How many state titles would he have?

[Irish]

Youth hockey is for development. Keep in mind that some will point out that Edina doesn't always take the best players each year. Some more talented kids get placed on PWB1 teams. This is wrong. Who cares who daddy is? If Edina created another peewee A team it only helps with the overall development of the players. I think everyone can agree majority of kids would love to win a Minnesota State High Championship in hockey. In order to do so each association should be developing at a younger age. Not to mention some of the top associations are losing some talented players to private schools. Why wouldn't you want to develop kids in peewee's?
Attn: Edina Parents: Ask your squirts A coach where his oldest son plays high school hockey? (hint: It's not Edina)

Remember hockey is a marathon not a sprint. I chuckle at all the parents open enrolling their kids to play in winning associations, or families moving just to be part of a winning association. Really?

[Shinbone_News]

It's worth pointing out that Edina makes a point of not fielding a "B1" team at least at Squirts, and "officially" tries to keep all the B teams roughly balanced (though there are always one or two that rise above). End result may be about the same as fielding two A's -- in the sense that you still give kids something really tough to strive for (making the A squad next year) while keeping them challenged and developing at Bs?

Still, Edina's dominance at most youth and girls levels (A and B anyway) is significantly more consistent than their occasional dominance at high school varsity. Why?

Wayzata HS beats Edina HS in 2018, no contest? I'll take that bet.