FARGO BRACKETS

[MrBoDangles]

Good question muckandgrind. The overall lack of creativity in the modern day one hour player. Not all mind you but the overall players by and large have lost that art of improvise. Too many road trips to too many games to chock up too many wins has hurt our kids greatly. Instead of 6 hours of Saturday ice it is a road trip for a one hour game and back home. We just do not churn out the volume of play makers as in the past. I think it will come back though here in the future and anxious to see that occur.

I agree 100%. Sure kids are bigger, faster, and stronger than 30 years ago. sure new moves have evolved over the years, but are they as good as they could be?
A player gets about 12-13 minutes of ice time in a one hour game My guess would be a typical away game takes three hours out of a day minimum. What's going to improve a kids "art of improvise" more....... 12-13 minutes in a structured game or 3-6 hours improvised hockey?
The metro area is filled with cookie cutter kids that are great skaters. On the other hand very few with hockey sense. They just don't play shinny hockey like they used to.
Northwoods Wiseman

Let's assume all of what you say is true....then how do you explain the fact that there are more Minnesotans then ever moving on to play hockey at the highest levels of the college and professional rankings??

You also assume that kids don't play outside as much as they used to....In my area, that's simply not the case. Every time I drive by our local outdoor rink, I see anywhere from 5-20 kids out there playing shinny hockey...not to mention the fact that many, many families set-up outdoor rinks in their backyards. I can tell you that my youngest son skates outdoor on an average of 3 days a week. Basically, if he doesn't have an indoor game or practice scheduled, he's outside playing. And he is not alone.

People always look back to the "good ol' days" with fond memories and it has become almost to cliche to say that the kids had it "figured out" back then....when, by and large, the kids back then really didn't have the number of opportunities to play and train that the kids have now. Simply put, the game is better today than it was 30 years ago...and it will probably be better 30 years from now than it is today.

Today's game is faster and more skilled than ever before.

The surge in AAA has done wonders in MN the last 10 years, but I would bet the ones that made it played the most shinny hockey or took the most shots off the ice.
Look at the cookie cutter, skate like the wind, metro Gophers. They play a few north of the border, grew up on the pond skaters, and get spun like a top.
Take a look at Roseau, they take a kid that would probably be a Tuba player at Minnetonka and turn them into a great hockey player.
How.....? Because he can play free indoor shinny hockey 24/7

They are closing outdoor rinks left and right in the metro because of lack of use You must live in a good hockey area if the kids are playing outdoors. The smiles are usually the biggest there.

I'm sure you watched the movie pond hockey. Take it from the pros

I agree hockey is more skilled and faster. Like I said before the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. Hockey sense and creativity on the other hand has gone down hill the last 10-15. That was northwoods point....

Keep your kid having fun and skating on the pond

[gorilla1]

sorry to strike a nerve Jet. I didn't mean anything bad by being average. I have seen them play and EV has a nice team. But once the tourney starts, the other teams will play their players in their best positions and not be rotating kids like they do during the district games. EV doesn't have the horses to play with Tonka, EP, or Wayzata.

I don't think the Fire can go because the tourney specifically states you cannot assemble All Star teams by taking kids from different associations and play in the tourney.

Dog, Lakeville South is going to have to play and beat Tonka, and then play Wayzata (while Wayzata has an easier draw). LS will run out of gas playing Wayzata and Wayzata wins.

[InigoMontoya]

Look at the cookie cutter, skate like the wind, metro Gophers.

Take a look at Roseau, they take a kid that would probably be a Tuba player at Minnetonka and turn them into a great hockey player.

Which is it? Or is it that Donnie has messed him up so badly in a year and a half that the creativity learned over 15 years has been beaten out of him?

The smiles are usually the biggest there.

And the rainbows are chocolate covered...

That was northwoods point....

Muck isn't stupid, he disagreed.

Keep your kid having fun and skating on the pond

Wow is that condescending!




Here's a theory: it's not the pond, it's the kid. The kids on the pond all day on a Saturday aren't gone for a couple hours to eat lunch and get warm, they're off to indoor practice with their teams, then back onto the pond when practice is over. The kid on the pond at 8:00pm had his dad drop him off after the hour drive back to town from the game with his team. It was the same kid on the same pond 15 years ago. 30 years ago there were a bunch of other kids out there, too - a snow day was a choice between skating and one of the soap operas on the 3 TV channels you received. Fewer of the other kids are out there; they have other choices. But that kid is there, and he is talented, and she is creative, and he is dedicated, and she is becoming a better hocky player than the kid on that pond 30 years ago.

[dogeatdog1]

sorry to strike a nerve Jet. I didn't mean anything bad by being average. I have seen them play and EV has a nice team. But once the tourney starts, the other teams will play their players in their best positions and not be rotating kids like they do during the district games. EV doesn't have the horses to play with Tonka, EP, or Wayzata.

I don't think the Fire can go because the tourney specifically states you cannot assemble All Star teams by taking kids from different associations and play in the tourney.

Dog, Lakeville South is going to have to play and beat Tonka, and then play Wayzata (while Wayzata has an easier draw). LS will run out of gas playing Wayzata and Wayzata wins.

Point taken.. New winner Wayzata...)

[muckandgrind]

I agree hockey is more skilled and faster. Like I said before the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. Hockey sense and creativity on the other hand has gone down hill the last 10-15. That was northwoods point....

...and how. exactly, do you base your opinion that creativity "has gone down hill the last 10-15" years? If this were true, wouldn't we see fewer and fewer kids moving on to play at higher levels? Surely, the NHL wouldn't be wasting their time drafting Minnesotan-born players because they aren't as creative as they used to be....but wait....aren't MORE Minnesotans being drafted now than ever before? If what you say is true, wouldn't the opposite be taking place?

So I ask again, how did you form your opinion that players have less hockey sense and creativity than ever before? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I keep hearing people saying this same thing time and time again, yet I haven't seen any evidence that what you (and they) is true. All the evidence points to the contrary. I'd like to see some evidence that backs up what you are saying....seriously.

I equate this topic to the one that "Europeans are better at teaching skilled-hockey than we do in North America"....this is completely bogus. Perfect evidence of that is the World Juniors tournament a few months ago and now the Olympics. The Euros teach and employ a rigid trapping sytle of player that allows for very little creativity on behalf of the players, while the Canadians and Americans play up and down the ice, firewagon hockey. Very exciting to watch. The Europeans can't hold our water when it comes to training hockey players. I don't care what Jack Blatherwick says....he's crazy.

[TheJet]

No problem. I would just say all of those mentioned are "above" average and none likely have a shot at final 4. What's to bad is some teams that don't need to will shorten the bench and some teams that need to won't, but that's a whole nother forum. Thx.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Lets talk about the great 8 as follows:

1. Out of group 1 will come STMA.
2. Out of group 2, it will be a test between OMG and Jefferson.
3. Out of group 3 (which is a difficult bracket overall) it will be either Waconia (which will have a tough test against Woodbury) or Chaska/Chanhassen (which will have a tough test against Edina)
4. Out of group 4, it will be Prior Lake.
5. Out of group 6, it will be Wayzata (who is my favorite for the tourney because of their depth)
6. Out of group 6, it will either be Tonka or Lakeville South. A very tough draw for two good teams.
7. I don't even understand group 7--one average team in Eastview and one well below average team in Eagan, and the rest out of town teams. Generally speaking the out of town teams are not as strong. It is too bad they could not have put either Tonka or Lakeville south in this bracket. I'll throw a dart and pick Ventura.
8. Out of group 8, it will be EP because of the easy bracket.

Because of the way the brackets are set up, one team will come out of brackets 1 through 4 above, and one team will come out of brackets 5 through 8 above.

I am going to pick Wayzata over Lakeville South in one semi and Waconia over STMA in the other. Waconia gets to play with a very short bench which helps them alot.

Wayzata is Champion

The teams from up north will need to take their ball and go home because none of them will make the final 8!

Gorilla those are solid picks, one sleeper may be OMG to make a push.

Any reason the Fire doesn't participate in this tourney? I hate to see the greatest squirt team ever assembled not given a chance to compete

Agree OMG is good dark horse/sleeper. I believe they were missing one of their best players for portion of the year.


Puck didn't your Elks scrimmage them and others (STMA, Wayzata, Waconia) recently ? How did that go and curious how you see it ?

[tonyleepers]

Where is all the Woodbury steam from? Keep in mind, I only saw them play once, and they got wiped out by an average Farmington team a couple weeks ago. Maybe I'm missing something?

[MrBoDangles]

Look at the cookie cutter, skate like the wind, metro Gophers.

Take a look at Roseau, they take a kid that would probably be a Tuba player at Minnetonka and turn them into a great hockey player.

Which is it? Or is it that Donnie has messed him up so badly in a year and a half that the creativity learned over 15 years has been beaten out of him?

The smiles are usually the biggest there.

And the rainbows are chocolate covered...

That was northwoods point....

Muck isn't stupid, he disagreed.

Keep your kid having fun and skating on the pond

Wow is that condescending!




Here's a theory: it's not the pond, it's the kid. The kids on the pond all day on a Saturday aren't gone for a couple hours to eat lunch and get warm, they're off to indoor practice with their teams, then back onto the pond when practice is over. The kid on the pond at 8:00pm had his dad drop him off after the hour drive back to town from the game with his team. It was the same kid on the same pond 15 years ago. 30 years ago there were a bunch of other kids out there, too - a snow day was a choice between skating and one of the soap operas on the 3 TV channels you received. Fewer of the other kids are out there; they have other choices. But that kid is there, and he is talented, and she is creative, and he is dedicated, and she is becoming a better hocky player than the kid on that pond 30 years ago.

Have you ever seen the Roseau kid off his skates? He is probably 2 inches shorter than they have listed. He is very talented and creative..... just undersized. ( a Tuba player at MTKA - a different setting). Hmm... funny how ND didn't end up with him

Hockey players that I see have more fun on outdoor rinks.

Who said muck is stupid?

Keep your kid indoors and make sure it's structured.

Gotta go, the kids want me to bring them to the OUTDOOR rink after school.

[keep skating]

Group 1 STMA defense, strong goalies, and coaching
Gruop 2 OMG offense and quick
Group 3 Edina total speed and scoring
Group 4 Prior Lake good top end then slide in talent
Group 5 Wayzata overall depth and veteran team
Group 6 Lakeville South play well as a team and smart coaching
Group 7 Grand Forks Blues weakest of the bunch but slide in
Group 8 Eden Praire physical and deep little defense team play

I want to cheer for the small programs but this is a long tournament and depth is key. Good luck to all the teams.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

Are any going to challenge the MN teams?

They shouldn't. The Minnesota teams are Pee Wee Minor teams while the others are Squirt A teams, but give them high marks for taking up the challenge. Looks like a good tournament.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

IM - If your so desperate to defend the assinine age classification in Minnesota by referencing population sizes, perhaps you should make it real by considering the number of registered hockey players within the referenced geographic location. Otherwise you simply are not making a fair comparison. The bottom line is that out of state teams are having to compete against teams that extend the spectrum of age available players.

That is true. Only Michigan (45K) registers more players than Minnesota (44K). Minnesota also registers more by a significant margin than the entire Western District (Califiornia, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada combined).

It's interesting when Minnesota teams travel to Tournaments they always play in events where they enjoy the 6 month advantage but never play in events where they give away the 6 month advantage. For example, the Squirt A teams in Minnesota play like Pee Wee Minor teams in the rest of the world, but when Minnesota (and North/South Dakota) teams enter tournaments out of state they never enter Pee Wee minor Tournaments, they opt for the tournaments where the age is an advantage and they are always welcome.

It's not a big deal to the rest of the world, but it is certainly a big advantage. That's the way Minnesota wants to do it and that's fine with the rest of the world, but it's nothing to get defensive about. It is what it is. Certainly the coaches and players have no control over it and at the end of the day it's not that big a deal who wins and who loses in a youth tournament as long as they all have fun.

[wayupnorth]

Good stuff! Let us keep track of the Champion outside of MN. A MN team will win it, but what non-MN team will go the furthest or give the MN teams a run.

My bet is Afton.

I still would like to know how many 00s are on the so called top teams.

[offside14]

I can tell you way up north that STMA has 4 2000's on the roster dont know about the rest.

[takeitwide]

Group 1 STMA defense, strong goalies, and coaching
Gruop 2 OMG offense and quick
Group 3 Edina total speed and scoring
Group 4 Prior Lake good top end then slide in talent
Group 5 Wayzata overall depth and veteran team
Group 6 Lakeville South play well as a team and smart coaching
Group 7 Grand Forks Blues weakest of the bunch but slide in
Group 8 Eden Praire physical and deep little defense team play

I want to cheer for the small programs but this is a long tournament and depth is key. Good luck to all the teams.

I like your choices for the groups and would have to go with Wayzata for there depth on the bench they have 5 solid players followed by strong bench. Watched them play in WhiteBear tournament the other week and really rolled throught all the teams the only reason Woodbury was close is Wayzata was in the box at least 30 minutes that game otherwise it might have been ugly. But at the end of the day who knows welcome to 10 and 11 year olds.

[big mac 15]

I like LS to win the tournament.I know Wyzata is a good team but LS beat them in the bloomington tournament 4-2 and also went on to beat EP and win the tournament.they have some key players such as 15,2,10,11,13,and their goalie is starting to preform better later in the year.My prediction is that LS will play STMA.LS will win 5-2.but anything can happen.

[offside14]

An aggressive prediction Big Mac considering nobody but the Fire has scored more than 3 on STMA all year. The most the Fire has scored in 3 meetings is 5, but like you say anything is possible.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

An aggressive prediction Big Mac considering nobody but the Fire has scored more than 3 on STMA all year. The most the Fire has scored in 3 meetings is 5, but like you say anything is possible.

Offsied14 I believe your wrong in your statment, didn't you just get beat by Elk River 4 to 2 Plus didn't you just get beat by Crow River, I don't think your team is as unbeatable as you promote.

[High Off The Glass]

An aggressive prediction Big Mac considering nobody but the Fire has scored more than 3 on STMA all year. The most the Fire has scored in 3 meetings is 5, but like you say anything is possible.

Offsied14 I believe your wrong in your statment, didn't you just get beat by Elk River 4 to 2 Plus didn't you just get beat by Crow River, I don't think your team is as unbeatable as you promote.

STMA goes down to Crow River? WOW. Why do you compare your team with the FIRE? I've seen better FIRE teams than the current 99 team. STMA may go far in Fargo, but not deep enough to win the tourney. If a metro team wins the tourney, I'd put money on Lakeville South or Wayzata.

[buzzsaw]

In my opinion Lakeville South takes title. Speed always has and always will kill. They have more team skill than anyone i've seen this year and they are well coached. STMA is good and they have great goaltending but LS is better and would win 4 out of 5 from STMA. Wayzata is good too and will be in the hunt but it won't happen this weekend for them.

[TheJet]

Haven't seen any of these 3 teams play this year, so I'll take the field against them? Ha. Good Luck to all teams, there will be some surprises. Should be a blast!

[Old Man Hockey]

In my opinion Lakeville South takes title. Speed always has and always will kill. They have more team skill than anyone i've seen this year and they are well coached. STMA is good and they have great goaltending but LS is better and would win 4 out of 5 from STMA. Wayzata is good too and will be in the hunt but it won't happen this weekend for them.

I agree Buzzsaw. Lakeville South is by far the best I have seen. The championship game will be played early between LS & Wayzata. If your in Fargo this weekend you will not want to miss this game. Good Luck to All!

[My_Kid_Loves_Hockey]

Wow finally some Smalltownbigstick talk......must be that side of town.

Just remember to enjoy the weekend at a great tourny and bring lots of pins for the kid!

[wayupnorth]

Now we have the winner picked with Lakeville South and Wayzata.

Which Fargo team will advance the farthest?

Who will be the team that does not win a game. I believe looking at the brackets that only one team goes home without a win.

[big mac 15]

Now we have the winner picked with Lakeville South and Wayzata.

Which Fargo team will advance the farthest?

Who will be the team that does not win a game. I believe looking at the brackets that only one team goes home without a win.

LS will go on to beat Wyzata 5-2 and win the tournament.