BRECK CLASS A CHAMPIONS

[bigeater3]

well said bigbopper

[masterB]

Give it a rest! Everybody knows privates have a HUGE advantage attracting good hockey players.
All these Einsteins just don't happen to be above average hockey players.
Make them play in their own conference together and have a seperate state tourney like they do out east. Than I just wonder how many of these Einstein's (who also play hockey) would keep jumping ship!

That would be the best way to deal with it!

Huge advantage? say that to St. Bernards, St. Francis, Holy Family, De Lasalle and the numerous bottom feeding private catholic and other affiliated private schools barely competing in hockey, and in some cases barely getting by financially. for every Holy Angels that excels in hockey, there are at least 5-6 schools barely competing. would hardly call it a competitive advantage. in the case of Breck, to put things in perspective, there are only on avg 100 kids per grade. of these, more likely than not, 50 are girls. of the 50 boys remaining per grade, probably 30-35 are lifers, kids who attended their whole lives and for the most part probably never picked up a hockey stick. an additional 15-20 enter school throughout 9-12th grade as transfers, and a few of these may also play hockey. others come from poorer minority groups in mpls and st. paul and don't play hockey, some come for stricly academic reasons, some because they want to do theater or fine arts. all in all, there is ROOM in the student body for a few hockey players each year. WOW, huge competitive advantage vs. your public schools like Bloom Jefferson, Edina, Minnetonka with enrollments in the thousands, with youth leagues filled with hundreds of potential players.

[bigbopper]

(St. Bernards, St. Francis, Holy Family, De Lasalle and the numerous bottom feeding)

The above teams have yet to figure out, how to use the Hockey Magnet Program
Let's correct the problem before they do!



masterB said "your public schools like Bloom Jefferson, Edina, Minnetonka with enrollments in the thousands, with youth leagues filled with hundreds of potential players."

Than the private's (BRECK) come along and pick the top players from each school, for their little all-star team!

Must be a really tough road to hoe there buddy.

It's always nice to see the guys like (Leddy) stay home and win with there buddies.

[deacon]

lost of jealousy, hate, and anger in this thread.

[Mite-dad]

I don't care one way or another. However, I think those that don't like privates have a legit beef. If you look statistically at the number of private schools versus the number of public schools, the privates win more section and state titles than a normal distribution would dictate. Why? Because they draw top talent to their programs. Its the best of both worlds. You get a great education plus you play on a great hockey or other sports team. If you folks that think its fair and great don't see that, then you've got some blinders on.

[WayOutWest]

I don't care one way or another. However, I think those that don't like privates have a legit beef. If you look statistically at the number of private schools versus the number of public schools, the privates win more section and state titles than a normal distribution would dictate. Why? Because they draw top talent to their programs. Its the best of both worlds. You get a great education plus you play on a great hockey or other sports team. If you folks that think its fair and great don't see that, then you've got some blinders on.

Agreed.
I have no idea how anyone COULD think it is a level playing field.
Sure, there are private schools that suffer in sports, but that is because they don't make them a priority. When they do, they can select student athletes from a WIDE swath. To compare enrollment numbers is disingenuous. It would be far more accurate to compare student population in the areas from which they draw kids.
Putting private schools in public school sports tournaments creates an uneven playing field, and it degrades the competition itself.
The state hockey tournament should have three classes......A, AA and Private.

[warriors41]

Give it a rest! Everybody knows privates have a HUGE advantage attracting good hockey players.
All these Einsteins just don't happen to be above average hockey players.
Make them play in their own conference together and have a seperate state tourney like they do out east. Than I just wonder how many of these Einstein's (who also play hockey) would keep jumping ship!

That would be the best way to deal with it!

Huge advantage? say that to St. Bernards, St. Francis, Holy Family, De Lasalle and the numerous bottom feeding private catholic and other affiliated private schools barely competing in hockey, and in some cases barely getting by financially. for every Holy Angels that excels in hockey, there are at least 5-6 schools barely competing. would hardly call it a competitive advantage. in the case of Breck, to put things in perspective, there are only on avg 100 kids per grade. of these, more likely than not, 50 are girls. of the 50 boys remaining per grade, probably 30-35 are lifers, kids who attended their whole lives and for the most part probably never picked up a hockey stick. an additional 15-20 enter school throughout 9-12th grade as transfers, and a few of these may also play hockey. others come from poorer minority groups in mpls and st. paul and don't play hockey, some come for stricly academic reasons, some because they want to do theater or fine arts. all in all, there is ROOM in the student body for a few hockey players each year. WOW, huge competitive advantage vs. your public schools like Bloom Jefferson, Edina, Minnetonka with enrollments in the thousands, with youth leagues filled with hundreds of potential players.

Well there is a problem with some of the schools you listed as being low end hockey teams. Some schools like DeLasalle and Holy Family have chosen to be great football schools, not hockey. I'm not sure if the other schools you mentioned are strong in anouther sport but those two are not focues on the ice, the pick players for their football team. I don't think it is any better for them to do that either.

[chiefofmedicine]

why dont public schools ever wonder why their top kids are leaving? not just claim privates are "pluckin away the top talent", look in the mirror for once.

[WayOutWest]

why dont public schools ever wonder why their top kids are leaving? not just claim privates are "pluckin away the top talent", look in the mirror for once.

Much like many (but not all) private schools, many public schools do not make hockey recruitment a priority. Do you think they should?
Would this be your idea of leveling the playing field?
In an ideal situation, kids would simply fall where they fall. Kids from a given school district would attend school in their designated school, or kids elect to attend a private school for strictly academic reasons.
In reality, however, a number of private schools recruit kids primarily to play hockey. That's just odd, and I don't think public schools should follow that lead. (that being the case, there have certainly been cases where kids have migrated to other public schools to get to a better hockey program, but those are rare in comparison to private school recruitment.)

What's the big deal about a separate private school class?
There are different "rules" for building enrollment in a private school, which inherently produces an unlevel playing field. Why should private schools be in a public school class in the first place?

[DotaDangler]

why dont public schools ever wonder why their top kids are leaving? not just claim privates are "pluckin away the top talent", look in the mirror for once.

Much like many (but not all) private schools, many public schools do not make hockey recruitment a priority. Do you think they should?
Would this be your idea of leveling the playing field?
In an ideal situation, kids would simply fall where they fall. Kids from a given school district would attend school in their designated school, or kids elect to attend a private school for strictly academic reasons.
In reality, however, a number of private schools recruit kids primarily to play hockey. That's just odd, and I don't think public schools should follow that lead. (that being the case, there have certainly been cases where kids have migrated to other public schools to get to a better hockey program, but those are rare in comparison to private school recruitment.)

What's the big deal about a separate private school class?
There are different "rules" for building enrollment in a private school, which inherently produces an unlevel playing field. Why should private schools be in a public school class in the first place?

Because they are all high schools dude, why do people complain so much about the private schools, its not like they dominate all the others schools every year the talent level is the same. If they did form a private school league I bet it would become a better league and even more kids would transfer away from the public schools for a chance to get noticed. There will be endless whining no matter how it is done.

[WayOutWest]

Because they are all high schools dude, why do people complain so much about the private schools, its not like they dominate all the others schools every year the talent level is the same. If they did form a private school league I bet it would become a better league and even more kids would transfer away from the public schools for a chance to get noticed. There will be endless whining no matter how it is done.

Hill-Murray, STA, Holy Angels?
There's no more of a history of success with their hockey programs than the average three public high schools?

Major League Baseball teams are also "all MLB teams", but that doesn't mean that the playing field is level. I suppose you support the NY Yankees being able to have a payroll of five times that of another team?

[mnwild09]

Because they are all high schools dude, why do people complain so much about the private schools, its not like they dominate all the others schools every year the talent level is the same. If they did form a private school league I bet it would become a better league and even more kids would transfer away from the public schools for a chance to get noticed. There will be endless whining no matter how it is done.

Hill-Murray, STA, Holy Angels?
There's no more of a history of success with their hockey programs than the average three public high schools?

Major League Baseball teams are also "all MLB teams", but that doesn't mean that the playing field is level. I suppose you support the NY Yankees being able to have a payroll of five times that of another team?

This is a completely fail argument. You're talking about the free market system. Schools are not free market. These kids have to PAY to go to these schools and win these championships (or their parents rather). How much does Derek Jeter pay to win (or not win) his World Series?

Thought so.

Breck, STA, Holy Angels, etc don't have to pay their athletes to come and play for them. They have a good reputation and draw kids in on that. You can't compare free market U.S. economy to private school hockey programs Mr. Fail.

[karl(east)]

Because they are all high schools dude, why do people complain so much about the private schools, its not like they dominate all the others schools every year the talent level is the same. If they did form a private school league I bet it would become a better league and even more kids would transfer away from the public schools for a chance to get noticed. There will be endless whining no matter how it is done.

Hill-Murray, STA, Holy Angels?
There's no more of a history of success with their hockey programs than the average three public high schools?

Major League Baseball teams are also "all MLB teams", but that doesn't mean that the playing field is level. I suppose you support the NY Yankees being able to have a payroll of five times that of another team?

This is a completely fail argument. You're talking about the free market system. Schools are not free market. These kids have to PAY to go to these schools and win these championships (or their parents rather). How much does Derek Jeter pay to win (or not win) his World Series?

Thought so.

Breck, STA, Holy Angels, etc don't have to pay their athletes to come and play for them. They have a good reputation and draw kids in on that. You can't compare free market U.S. economy to private school hockey programs Mr. Fail.

Oh sure, let's just all start ripping on the Yankees.

But mnwild is right...that's a horrible analogy. The Yankees are a for-profit organization that makes tons of money, not only for themselves but for everyone else in baseball when they go to visit them. High school sports are not like that at all.

Minnesota has open enrollment. Public schools are just as capable of bringing in kids from a very large area, and a number of them do.

Also, if your intent is to design a system in which we have ten Shattuck-like schools that can openly and freely recruit whichever top hockey players they want, by all means, create an all-private class that will take nearly all of the top talent in the state out of public schools. It'd be a quick and easy way to destroy Minnesota high school hockey as we know it.

[MNHockeyFan]

Also, if your intent is to design a system in which we have ten Shattuck-like schools that can openly and freely recruit whichever top hockey players they want, by all means, create an all-private class that will take nearly all of the top talent in the state out of public schools. It'd be a quick and easy way to destroy Minnesota high school hockey as we know it.

karl(east) is right, all you have to do is look out East to see what would happen here. In New England the private (prep) schools are dominant and compete openly for the best players, offering scholarships when necessary. As a result the public schools that do have hockey teams end up with the leftovers. If you like our current system it's important to keep the privates in the MSHSL and have them abide by the MSHSL's rules.

[WayOutWest]

Also, if your intent is to design a system in which we have ten Shattuck-like schools that can openly and freely recruit whichever top hockey players they want, by all means, create an all-private class that will take nearly all of the top talent in the state out of public schools. It'd be a quick and easy way to destroy Minnesota high school hockey as we know it.

karl(east) is right, all you have to do is look out East to see what would happen here. In New England the private (prep) schools are dominant and compete openly for the best players, offering scholarships when necessary. As a result the public schools that do have hockey teams end up with the leftovers. If you like our current system it's important to keep the privates in the MSHSL and have them abide by the MSHSL's rules.

First of all, the analogy was to illustrate the unevenness of playing fields. In that regard, it is quite valid. The Yankees are not bound to the limitations that other teams have.
As for privates robbing publics of players,................psssssttt.............that's already happening. Did you SEE Breck's roster? How many of their hockey kids reside within 5 miles of Breck? And do you believe that Breck, Hill-Murray, STA and Holy Angels are NOT offering financial benefits to hockey kids, today?
What "MSHSL rules" do you imagine the private schools are adhering to today, that they would not have to if they played in a different class?
What the MSHSL should do, to level the playing field, is to implement a rule that privates cannot offer any financial perks to hockey kids at all. (but we all know that cannot happen, for hockey kids can get "academic" grants/perks as well, and thus such recruitment perks can be disguised as such.)

And comparing "out east" with Minnesota is a FAR bigger misnomer than the Yankee's analogy. Hockey in Minnesota is FAR different than in any other state in the union. High school hockey programs and associations are FAR less numerous than they are here.

[karl(east)]

Also, if your intent is to design a system in which we have ten Shattuck-like schools that can openly and freely recruit whichever top hockey players they want, by all means, create an all-private class that will take nearly all of the top talent in the state out of public schools. It'd be a quick and easy way to destroy Minnesota high school hockey as we know it.

karl(east) is right, all you have to do is look out East to see what would happen here. In New England the private (prep) schools are dominant and compete openly for the best players, offering scholarships when necessary. As a result the public schools that do have hockey teams end up with the leftovers. If you like our current system it's important to keep the privates in the MSHSL and have them abide by the MSHSL's rules.

First of all, the analogy was to illustrate the unevenness of playing fields. In that regard, it is quite valid. The Yankees are not bound to the limitations that other teams have.
As for privates robbing publics of players,................psssssttt.............that's already happening. Did you SEE Breck's roster? How many of their hockey kids reside within 5 miles of Breck? And do you believe that Breck, Hill-Murray, STA and Holy Angels are NOT offering financial benefits to hockey kids, today?
What "MSHSL rules" do you imagine the private schools are adhering to today, that they would not have to if they played in a different class?
What the MSHSL should do, to level the playing field, is to implement a rule that privates cannot offer any financial perks to hockey kids at all. (but we all know that cannot happen, for hockey kids can get "academic" grants/perks as well, and thus such recruitment perks can be disguised as such.)

And comparing "out east" with Minnesota is a FAR bigger misnomer than the Yankee's analogy. Hockey in Minnesota is FAR different than in any other state in the union. High school hockey programs and associations are FAR less numerous than they are here.

The Yankees are not "bound by limitations" because MLB only makes marginal attempts to reel in their spending. MLB is trying to make money, and the Yankees do a very good job for them at that. Also, for all the money the Yankees throw at people, they haven't won a world series in 9 years, and as the gap between their payroll and the others has grown, so has competitive balance in baseball, suggesting that this "advantage in resources" really isn't as big as it's made out to be. Apples and oranges.

Private schools "rob" kids from publics? Really?
I went to a public school, and there were several hockey players in my graduating class who left mine and went to the local private. Had these players not left, my school likely would have gone to state several more times than it did. But do I consider it robbery? No way. Some of them left for academics, some for a better shot at hockey glory, and others because they had problems with certain things at my high school. I hold no grudge against any of these people.

So if a kid wants to go to a private school, but is unable to pay for it and we've blocked him from getting any financial aid because he plays hockey, you would find that to be "fairer" than the current system? Nonsense. That would be a horrible injustice to anyone looking for a private school education who also happens to be an athlete.

I'm not an expert in MSHSL rules, but I'd suggest you ask Shattuck what rules they felt were holding them back from practicing the widespread recruiting practices they now employ. They decided they did not like the rules and chose to flaunt the system, and they've done so quite successfully. If all the private schools were similarly marginalized by being shunted into their own class, what would be stopping them from following suit?

And also, what exactly does the number of hockey organizations in a given area have to do with the public vs. private dynamic?

[WayOutWest]

The Yankees are not "bound by limitations" because MLB only makes marginal attempts to reel in their spending. MLB is trying to make money, and the Yankees do a very good job for them at that. Also, for all the money the Yankees throw at people, they haven't won a world series in 9 years, and as the gap between their payroll and the others has grown, so has competitive balance in baseball, suggesting that this "advantage in resources" really isn't as big as it's made out to be. Apples and oranges.

Private schools "rob" kids from publics? Really?
I went to a public school, and there were several hockey players in my graduating class who left mine and went to the local private. Had these players not left, my school likely would have gone to state several more times than it did. But do I consider it robbery? No way. Some of them left for academics, some for a better shot at hockey glory, and others because they had problems with certain things at my high school. I hold no grudge against any of these people.

So if a kid wants to go to a private school, but is unable to pay for it and we've blocked him from getting any financial aid because he plays hockey, you would find that to be "fairer" than the current system? Nonsense. That would be a horrible injustice to anyone looking for a private school education who also happens to be an athlete.

I'm not an expert in MSHSL rules, but I'd suggest you ask Shattuck what rules they felt were holding them back from practicing the widespread recruiting practices they now employ. They decided they did not like the rules and chose to flaunt the system, and they've done so quite successfully. If all the private schools were similarly marginalized by being shunted into their own class, what would be stopping them from following suit?

And also, what exactly does the number of hockey organizations in a given area have to do with the public vs. private dynamic?

1) Yankees - Thank you for recognizing the imbalance in the playing field. Competitive advantages do not always result in success, though the Yankees do at least make it to the post season far more than any other MLB team.

2) You proved my point about public schools luring kids away. Private schools can offer better education, a better environment, a better chance at hockey success, and they can make the financials easy or a complete non-factor. That would be a competitive advantage that public schools do not own.......i.e. competitive advantage.
I don't blame kids for taking a private school offer. More power to them. And I don't want them denied financial perks. I just believe there needs to be a level playing field in high school hockey. Is that so wrong?

3) No, you are not an MSHSL rules expert. And I highly doubt that the MSHSL is important at all, on Shattuck's radar. They enjoy success and popularity without the MSHSL. I don't believe they resisted entry into the MSHSL to avoid given rules. They simply don't need the association. If you believe that other private schools will become the hockey powerhouse that is Shattuck, if they are put in a separate class, or booted out of the MSHSL altogether, well that is quite an active imagination you have there. You have nothing to support that contention.

[bronco2828]

There is no question there is a problem. If there wasn't the issue wouldn't be revisited every year. Back in the 80's when Edina was a force with the talk of relocating family's of good hockey players to their school district. Open enrollment helped deny school's like Edina that option. Three possibilities as I see it. Go back to a single class and Tourney as it was and should be. I'm sure MSHSL would never tender this idea again due to revenues from split classes. So either a private school tourney or make private schools go class AA. If the Class A privates compete against class AA public schools during the season why not in the class AA tourney. As for the privates that don't have good programs, there are publics with programs that have never been to a state tourney or year after year have a lossing season. A public school like Roseau knows they have a better program than class A and stepped up to Class AA. Why can't the Brecks and St. Thomass figure this out.

[karl(east)]

2) You proved my point about public schools luring kids away. Private schools can offer better education, a better environment, a better chance at hockey success, and they can make the financials easy or a complete non-factor. That would be a competitive advantage that public schools do not own.......i.e. competitive advantage.
I don't blame kids for taking a private school offer. More power to them. And I don't want them denied financial perks. I just believe there needs to be a level playing field in high school hockey. Is that so wrong?

3) No, you are not an MSHSL rules expert. And I highly doubt that the MSHSL is important at all, on Shattuck's radar. They enjoy success and popularity without the MSHSL. I don't believe they resisted entry into the MSHSL to avoid given rules. They simply don't need the association. If you believe that other private schools will become the hockey powerhouse that is Shattuck, if they are put in a separate class, or booted out of the MSHSL altogether, well that is quite an active imagination you have there. You have nothing to support that contention.

2. There's a bit of a flaw with this argument...the characteristics of "competitive advantage" that you ascribe to private schools apply just as well to certain public schools.
Do some publics offer better educations than others? Undoubtedly.
Do some publics offer much nicer environments than others? Clearly.
Do some publics offer way better chances at hockey success? Of course.
Financials, of course, are a non-factor at any public school, with the possible exceptions of transportation costs and activity fees.

When you look at the schools that tend to offer these things (Edina, Eden Prairie, Duluth East, Minnetonka, Wayzata), you find just as much of a trend towards imbalance. Does this mean we should start cracking down on these schools too, or put them in their own class?

The bottom line is that, public or private, competitive advantages are going to exist in a system with open enrollment.

3. Previous posts have led me to believe that Shattuck hockey and the MSHSL have a somewhat choppy history, though I will defer to anyone who has more knowledge on that situation.

For the sake of argument, I will concede that a) there is the competitive imbalance that you suggest exists, and b) that these privates will not go the "Shattuck route." And yes, even with those preconditions, I do still think creating a separate class would only lure more kids out of publics and into privates.

Why? Because suddenly we have a class in which there are a disproportionate number of pretty good hockey programs relative to the size of the class, and this would likely become "the" tournament. Just as AA is seen as superior to A by many, the privates will be seen as superior to AA; they enjoy the same advantages over AA that AA does over A. The AA tournament still might generate the most revenue, but for the best exposure available and highest quality hockey would be played in the private tourney, seeing as they have all these advantages that you've elaborated on. It follows pretty logically, and that cycle will likely only perpetuate itself and increase the gap.

Also, you didn't answer the last question in my last post, which is relevant to the east coast example.

[MNHockeyFan]

The bottom line is that, public or private, competitive advantages are going to exist in a system with open enrollment.

Hopkins in boys basketball being a prime example!

[DotaDangler]

Well put Karl. I don't understand why people think this problem is going to go away if STA or Breck opts up to AA. I think they would then draw even more kids away from public schools and people would be complaining even more.

I have many close family ties at STA, and the reason STA doesn't opt up to AA has nothing to do with being trophy chasers or wanting to make the state tournament more often. This year they would have had a better chance at making state in other AA sections anyways. The reason they don't opt up is because the donors and board of directors(the people behind the money) want STA to stay academic and tradition focused, and moving to AA signals a shift in focus and priorities. Cretin and STA used to be mirror images of each other, but 20 years ago Cretin combined with Derham, made JROTC optional, and shifted their focus more towards athletics. This is obvious as they have produced outstanding athletes like Joe Mauer and Chris Wienke and have become a sports powerhouse. The "old school" people don't want this to happen at STA, so they will remain in A until they are either comfortable moving up or are forced to.

[deacon]

Well put Karl. I don't understand why people think this problem is going to go away if STA or Breck opts up to AA. I think they would then draw even more kids away from public schools and people would be complaining even more.

I have many close family ties at STA, and the reason STA doesn't opt up to AA has nothing to do with being trophy chasers or wanting to make the state tournament more often. This year they would have had a better chance at making state in other AA sections anyways. The reason they don't opt up is because the donors and board of directors(the people behind the money) want STA to stay academic and tradition focused, and moving to AA signals a shift in focus and priorities. Cretin and STA used to be mirror images of each other, but 20 years ago Cretin combined with Derham, made JROTC optional, and shifted their focus more towards athletics. This is obvious as they have produced outstanding athletes like Joe Mauer and Chris Wienke and have become a sports powerhouse. The "old school" people don't want this to happen at STA, so they will remain in A until they are either comfortable moving up or are forced to.

Good post. A couple things, karl(east) is absolutely crushing this thread right now, well done. To expound on DD's post, STA relies heavily on donations from alumni and as DD pointed out, they pretty much control a lot of the decision making. A couple years ago, Visitation (the all-girls school a block away) proposed the idea of merging or at the very minimum, share classes. The Board at STA pretty much walked out of the meeting laughing. They don't want things to change. Jack Zahr, STA's AD, was interviewed in Vype magazine (I think that is what it is called) and they asked him point blank; Why doesn't your hockey team move up to class AA? His response was, "Our athletic teams will remain in the classes that they are assigned to by MSHSL." This clearly evident with the swim program. They have won 9 out of the last 10 state titles in A and are considered one of the top programs in the country producing All-Americans every year and an Olympic gold medalist, yet they remain in class A because that is where they are assigned to compete. The golf team competes in class AA despite not ever winning state (other than the Catholic state championship). Being an alumnus of STA, I would love to see them move up and compete in class AA but I realize that this will most likely not happen and I am fine with it and people outside of the institution need to accept it. It's not likely to change.

[karl(east)]

Well put Karl. I don't understand why people think this problem is going to go away if STA or Breck opts up to AA. I think they would then draw even more kids away from public schools and people would be complaining even more.

I have many close family ties at STA, and the reason STA doesn't opt up to AA has nothing to do with being trophy chasers or wanting to make the state tournament more often. This year they would have had a better chance at making state in other AA sections anyways. The reason they don't opt up is because the donors and board of directors(the people behind the money) want STA to stay academic and tradition focused, and moving to AA signals a shift in focus and priorities. Cretin and STA used to be mirror images of each other, but 20 years ago Cretin combined with Derham, made JROTC optional, and shifted their focus more towards athletics. This is obvious as they have produced outstanding athletes like Joe Mauer and Chris Wienke and have become a sports powerhouse. The "old school" people don't want this to happen at STA, so they will remain in A until they are either comfortable moving up or are forced to.

Good post. A couple things, karl(east) is absolutely crushing this thread right now, well done. To expound on DD's post, STA relies heavily on donations from alumni and as DD pointed out, they pretty much control a lot of the decision making. A couple years ago, Visitation (the all-girls school a block away) proposed the idea of merging or at the very minimum, share classes. The Board at STA pretty much walked out of the meeting laughing. They don't want things to change. Jack Zahr, STA's AD, was interviewed in Vype magazine (I think that is what it is called) and they asked him point blank; Why doesn't your hockey team move up to class AA? His response was, "Our athletic teams will remain in the classes that they are assigned to by MSHSL." This clearly evident with the swim program. They have won 9 out of the last 10 state titles in A and are considered one of the top programs in the country producing All-Americans every year and an Olympic gold medalist, yet they remain in class A because that is where they are assigned to compete. The golf team competes in class AA despite not ever winning state (other than the Catholic state championship). Being an alumnus of STA, I would love to see them move up and compete in class AA but I realize that this will most likely not happen and I am fine with it and people outside of the institution need to accept it. It's not likely to change.

Thanks to the last 3 commenters for the support.

These sorts of stories about STA need to be told more often. They're very good, and serve as excellent reminders that the high school world does not revolve around hockey (as much as we might wish it did). Kudos to STA for sticking with its values. And I think DotaDangler is completely right about what would happen if STA and Breck opted up.

[Mite-dad]

Well put Karl. I don't understand why people think this problem is going to go away if STA or Breck opts up to AA. I think they would then draw even more kids away from public schools and people would be complaining even more.

I have many close family ties at STA, and the reason STA doesn't opt up to AA has nothing to do with being trophy chasers or wanting to make the state tournament more often. This year they would have had a better chance at making state in other AA sections anyways. The reason they don't opt up is because the donors and board of directors(the people behind the money) want STA to stay academic and tradition focused, and moving to AA signals a shift in focus and priorities. Cretin and STA used to be mirror images of each other, but 20 years ago Cretin combined with Derham, made JROTC optional, and shifted their focus more towards athletics. This is obvious as they have produced outstanding athletes like Joe Mauer and Chris Wienke and have become a sports powerhouse. The "old school" people don't want this to happen at STA, so they will remain in A until they are either comfortable moving up or are forced to.

Good post. A couple things, karl(east) is absolutely crushing this thread right now, well done. To expound on DD's post, STA relies heavily on donations from alumni and as DD pointed out, they pretty much control a lot of the decision making. A couple years ago, Visitation (the all-girls school a block away) proposed the idea of merging or at the very minimum, share classes. The Board at STA pretty much walked out of the meeting laughing. They don't want things to change. Jack Zahr, STA's AD, was interviewed in Vype magazine (I think that is what it is called) and they asked him point blank; Why doesn't your hockey team move up to class AA? His response was, "Our athletic teams will remain in the classes that they are assigned to by MSHSL." This clearly evident with the swim program. They have won 9 out of the last 10 state titles in A and are considered one of the top programs in the country producing All-Americans every year and an Olympic gold medalist, yet they remain in class A because that is where they are assigned to compete. The golf team competes in class AA despite not ever winning state (other than the Catholic state championship). Being an alumnus of STA, I would love to see them move up and compete in class AA but I realize that this will most likely not happen and I am fine with it and people outside of the institution need to accept it. It's not likely to change.

Thanks to the last 3 commenters for the support.

These sorts of stories about STA need to be told more often. They're very good, and serve as excellent reminders that the high school world does not revolve around hockey (as much as we might wish it did). Kudos to STA for sticking with its values. And I think DotaDangler is completely right about what would happen if STA and Breck opted up.

If academics is the backbone of the institution, why are they even recruiting hockey players. They should focus on nerds with IQs of 150. Obviously athletic dominance is also a very important, although denied, priority of these institutions. Probably because it increases the amount of money they can charge students to come. Money talks. With the recent success of private schools recently in both classes, I see the problem getting worse.

[karl(east)]

If academics is the backbone of the institution, why are they even recruiting hockey players. They should focus on nerds with IQs of 150. Obviously athletic dominance is also a very important, although denied, priority of these institutions. Probably because it increases the amount of money they can charge students to come. Money talks.

1. Define "recruiting." That's a very vague charge. What circumstances constitue recruiting, and why exactly are these ones bad?
2. Irrelevant, but IQ tests are among the dumbest things ever invented by anyone.
3. (Related to #2) It takes more than a bunch of smart kids to make a good community.
4. (Just looking for clarification) How does athletic performance of a school drive tuition? I'm not sure that I see the correlation.

With the recent success of private schools recently in both classes, I see the problem getting worse.

IF you look at it that way (saying that this is a "problem"), I guess I agree...so long as private schools continue to offer better environments than public schools. But that's getting into a policy debate that we should probably avoid.

Even if we buy that premise, though, and we're out to prevent privates from gaining even more players, we have to ask, how can we best do that? Honestly, it's probably the system we have right now. Giving them their own exclusive class or forcing them up to AA will only increase exposure. Actually, the only thing that might work to decrease their "recruiting potential" would be ending the opt-out clause and forcing all of them but CDH to play single-A. But if you do that, you lose Roseau, GR, DE, Cloquet, and Bemidji from AA too, and suddenly the A tournament is looking just as strong as the AA one, which might just defeat the whole purpose.