Minnesota Made Ice Center

[tomASS]

MS PACMAN one could put TOM'sa$$ on the line that Duckyboy is a proud member of the BOOGEYMAN fan club. I wonder if Bernard can get him to mow his lawn? Clinically this is referred to as "first son syndrome"

I personally was only responding to Dmom's post and endorse no specific clinical diagnosis no matter how correct I feel it may be. Nor do I condone the legal gambling of my money (except for the occasional powerball) no matter how good the odds or return on my sure thing investment.

[Doglover]

Ahhhh - I LOVE that song and cheers to you for writing what everyone was thinking and hinting at...

Now how many MM parents have an 8 yr old "playing up" to Squirts? So which association are we talking about? Hmmm, so many questions, so little time...

Remember folks - we are listening to a parent of an 8 year old! All those years of hockey knowledge! I'm sure the little guy has participated in tons of hockey clinics so that Quaker dad can realistically evaluate them for quality. We should probably all be shot for even continuing this ludicrous discussion. It's been amusing, but I'm out!

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

Bernie "hello"

Duckboyboogeytime " is my son doing ok"

Bernie " is your check good"

Duckboyboogeytime " i can borrow"

Bernie " i got this program coming this fall, i call it the Escape During Recess and Make Peewee A's clinic..all school year $500"

Duckboyboogeytime " Bern I am tapped it is 14 miles to MM from school and recess is 20 minutes long"

Bernie " that is the beauty of it, 5 minutes of ice at a high speed all school year long, the kid never will have down time..except for the 1 minute warmup, and 1 minute of direction"

Duckboyboogeytime " I cannot fall behind "

Bernie " if you dont take this spot I am calling the Nelsons and they will pay double "

[O-townClown]

1. I think the fact that someone actually knows the per hour calcluations for his son's ice time is proof positive that they are drunk on Kool Aid. Seroiusly? I have no idea what it broke down to per hour for my son last year. If I had to guess I'd say between 10 and 15 bucks, but these quotes are to the penny.

2. If I'm reading this right, someone says their 8-year-old is playing "AAA" level hockey. How can anyone be at AAA so young? Nationally there are AAA programs in Pee Wees and maybe 2nd year Squirts. Anyone calling travel hockey at the Mite level a AAA experience is just making stuff up.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

1. I think the fact that someone actually knows the per hour calcluations for his son's ice time is proof positive that they are drunk on Kool Aid. Seroiusly? I have no idea what it broke down to per hour for my son last year. If I had to guess I'd say between 10 and 15 bucks, but these quotes are to the penny.

2. If I'm reading this right, someone says their 8-year-old is playing "AAA" level hockey. How can anyone be at AAA so young? Nationally there are AAA programs in Pee Wees and maybe 2nd year Squirts. Anyone calling travel hockey at the Mite level a AAA experience is just making stuff up.

Seriously? Let's see $895 for 100 hours of ice time. I guess I could say $9 per ice time if that makes you feel better. I know one thing for sure. I'd rather pay $9 per ice time to get better training versus $14 per hour to skate around cones and jump through hoola-hoops.
Keep in mind there are many associations making lets say adjustments to find more ice time for their younger kids. All of a sudden associations are finding more ice time to develop Mites. Hmmmm? Where do you suppose they got that idea from?
Lets take Edina for example. Some one sent me an email from the Edina hockey association selling the parents on more ice time and longer practices. Let me ask. Could they be using someone elses idea? It appears the Kool-aid is being spread around to some associations.

As for AAA hockey. Why do you suppose that every tourney my sons team has played in is called (blank) AAA tourney? If you want I can rephrase. My son is playing traveling hockey at Minnesota made. Whoa! I feel better don't you?

Good luck where ever your kids play hockey. Hopefully everything works out.
Some people actually don't worry where other kids play hockey. Then you have the hockey know it alls that feels the need to spread their knowledge. We're all better for it.

[misspacman]

Quacker doesn't care where your child plays hockey, unless he isn't playing at Minnesota Made. Remember, any idea concerning hockey was originated at Minnesota Made, right Quacker?

Quote:
Lakeville parents send your kids to Minnesota made to play in the Choice Mite league.



Quote:
misspacman- Why does it concern you where other kids play hockey? Are you really concerned where other parents kids play hockey? Why?



two quotes, same person

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Quacker doesn't care where your child plays hockey, unless he isn't playing at Minnesota Made. Remember, any idea concerning hockey was originated at Minnesota Made, right Quacker?

Quote:
Lakeville parents send your kids to Minnesota made to play in the Choice Mite league.



Quote:
misspacman- Why does it concern you where other kids play hockey? Are you really concerned where other parents kids play hockey? Why?



two quotes, same person

Pretty simple and straight forward. In the end it doesn't matter where the kids skate. If some one is having a problem with the association they do have some options. That's the beauty of it. Why would I care where kids skate?
I'm in a no lose situation. Next year my son will be back in his local association next year playing with local friends playing at least squirt "B" hockey. For AAA (I mean) traveling hockey he can play with his other buddies at Minnesota made. Choices are good.
My goal is to hear how good the squirt program is in our local association this year. If I hear bad things then I still have a choice for next year. Options are great!

[DMom]

My goal is to hear how good the squirt program is in our local association this year. If I hear bad things then I still have a choice for next year.

I am sorry, with attitudes like this out there, than you wonder why associations like Lakeville are taking the actions they are taking?? Not that I agree with that action either, but this type of "I'll wait and see" if you meet my standards is not how association hockey is based. It's mighty tough to decide how many teams to field when you don't know if twelve kids are signing up. One of the other problems with DuckBoogeyBernieQuack, is that people think that he represents Minnesota Made and I don't believe he does. There are plenty of people involved there who are great people.

The other key is that we are talking about an 8 year old. The child is not eligible for Squirt hockey in Minnesota. Every year there is ONE 8 year old that HAS got to tryout for the Squirt A team in every association, like that is the key to lifetime hockey greatness. The ripple effect of bumping kids (who may, after a year with a coach who emphasizes skating, become much better) who are ten years old down from A to B to C is not what makes an association strong. The ten year old that gets displaced from B to C, may not come back for PeeWees. Maybe he tries basketball because he grew four inches. Lo and behold, between 8th and 9th he grows A LOT more. The hockey coach is now looking at this athlete and wishing the kid had stuck with hockey. But not to worry, we have a phenom that is now trying to play PeeWees at the age of 10 and he's almost 4 foot tall.

I am coming to know quite a few 12-14 year olds, that are tired of skating. Guess what? They do get burned out. Who would have thought that people who have been there and done that would actually know what they are talking about. Suddenly they would much rather go to the cabin for the weekend than skate in an all star tournament. And there's no one to blame, the kids just don't want to do it anymore. Why? they get it, they have to fight so hard to stay on top and it just isn't fun anymore. It was easy when half the kids you skate against can't skate and they don't hit you and the goalies don't know much about angles, but it is a grind and hard on their young bodies to continue.

This is where you say, "when my son wants to do something else we will we'll go camping and boating and hunting, yada yada yada". IF that's the case why put so much effort into it now?

Why even join in this topic? Because there are parents out there who will believe that their six year old needs this to be a star. But you are right Doglover, and I did fight it for a long time, because I don't need the headache. What I need in my life are a few more U12 tournaments so I can get that part of volunteering for an association over and done with for the year.

Without duckboogeyberniequacker there hasn't been this uproar over Minnesota Made on the bored, people didn't care if others took their kids there.

[goep]

Bernie is the best period.

[Doglover]

Nice post Dmom! Couldn't agree with you more.

One thing to remember is that all of us in the metro owe QuakerBoogieBernie a big thank you. If it weren't for all those overly competitive parents of 4-8 year olds, Bernie couldn't pay the ice bill. It is nice having the additional rinks available in the cities, even if you have to pay a fortune for it. So thanks Quakerboogiebernie for spending all that money to keep the MM rink open.

Finally, a bigger thank you to all the volunteers at the hockey associations. You are greatly appreciated by all of us who care about ALL the hockey kids, not just our own.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

Is DuckcrackboogeyBerniewipped going to have his kid leave his current FOR PROFIT TEAM for a more attractive Deuce team in 2009? Stay tuned..... I will leave to my confidant TomA$$ to define "Berniewipped"

DuckboogeyRocketmeABernie, if your son CHOSE squirt choice league, did he really CHOSE Chaska squirts for 2009 100%, or did you perhaps suggest to him some alternatives???? Like my former Gilles Meloche, save the melodramatics.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Look at all the concerned hockey parents. You gotta love it! Are people really worried where my son skates this winter? If so, why? You must share your reasoning. If you really think about it. You're spending time on a youth hockey website worrying about other parents and kids?

I wonder why did 12 kids from my association played at Minnesota made last year? Without saying too much it sounds like they were looking for something that they couldn't receive elsewhere. I'm merely pointing out the truth.

You also have to realize that many local associations are altering their Mite programs this year to receive more ice time, maybe allowing kids to move up, some are making practices 1.5 hours. All of a sudden associations are a little more concerned with Mite development.
My association revamped its Mite program this year. I applaud the move.
It doesn't take genius to point out the ONLY reason for this is the fact that Minnesota made was successful last year that Bernie offered something new and creative. It was so successful that many associations took notice. This year you are starting to see the changes.

Yet people still sit on this site and rip away on Bernie and all his programs. Hmmm?

Doglover wrote: Finally, a bigger thank you to all the volunteers at the hockey associations. You are greatly appreciated by all of us who care about ALL the hockey kids, not just our own.
I 100% agree! This is why I ran clinics and coached in our association. Next year I'm hoping to help make our association even better when we come back home.

[gorilla1]

You should not feel bad about having your child play at MM or for the Duece if that what a family decides is best for their kid. Duck Duck Quack Quack is not doing anythign different then many families that are out there. The family is just making a decision that they feel is best. That's it. Its nothing more or nothing less. Can anyone say that Duck Duck Quack Quack or anyoneelse that makes the decision is just flat out wrong? If not, we need to respect the decisions that people make.

[Marty McSorely]

Boy has this thread ever gotten off topic! I didn't mean to create hate and discontent.

I'm really bothered by a lot of the chatter. Lakeville punishing kids, come on, make mommy and daddy pay an extra fee. Sorry to say but all youth sports are now a business, like it or not. If you own a business and you find out a customer went elsewhere do you punish them when they come back?

It's time hockey associations start running the business and finding out what makes the customer happy and what products the customer wants. This might even include hiring a full-time hockey operations director.

Lastly Dmom, I think more parents should enforce the some time off rule. In our house summer weekend are for the outdoors..... no jobs, no summer hockey, no traveling baseball or soccer that tie up the weekend. Winter is made short by hockey season but we spend every weekend indoors from Oct to April. Maybe if more of these kids had a break they would be hungrey to play in the winter instead of bored by December.

[O-townClown]

Why do you suppose that every tourney my sons team has played in is called (blank) AAA tourney?

Because if we call it that, maybe we can get some people to believe that it is superior to other levels.

I really don't have a problem with "AAA" hockey, but I find it funny that some Minnesotans are gung-ho about the idea when they have the most robust association hockey in the nation.

A "Minor Pee Wee" - what we used to call first year - AAA program from Tampa had a national ranking of about 10th. Yet they weren't as good as a AA team from that area that won the Tier II National Championship. Basil McRae's kid plays Junior A in the OHL; when he was in Bantams he played AAA but when he was a Pee Wee the team was AA. If McRae's Junior Blues were AA as Pee Wee, how could anyone just throw a group of Mites together and have a AAA anything?

AAA in name only. I don't think Minnesotans know what all the A's mean. Is this team registered AAA with USA Hockey? I didn't think they registered Mites at that level

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

O-town: I'm not sure why majority of people in Minnesota call it AAA hockey. I do know that every tourney we sign up for is called AAA something. Even the Canadians teams in Manitoba call it AAA hockey. Our team matches up very well against those teams in the 99 age group.

[tomASS]

This is why I ran clinics

Really?

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Is it Fire season again? Sounds like its all about you coach. This is the reason why the Fire and Choice league exist. Many of these players and parents choose to leave because of this old school mentality. Lets face it , there are alot of poorly run associations with below average coaching and families are starting to look at other options. The amount of positive feedback for Fire/Choice programs seems to be much higher than association hockey.

Let's see I was one of the lucky few that made it yo both college and pro. Won 2 high school state titles, and still my best friends are the kids I grew up playing with from my community. I have been to the highest level not sure about you Bruins, but I think I can coach and offer a 6 & 7 grader a lot. Yes, many associations may not have coaches that have played at the higher levels.

I still have many friends coaching at both the college and pro level you should talk to them once. You willnot find one of them that would support MN Made or think it is a great thing. If the has the talent and the desire they will make it, but I think you probably know the stats on how many really make it. It is a game to enjoy and play with friends that you go to school with. The numbers are so small that move on why take away something that you will have forever no matter on good of player you are.

MN Made is born off of 1 great class of athletes, and know a bunch of parents who think throwing thousands of dollars and thousands of hours at there kid when they are 8,9,10 will make them stars.

Check the stats it could not be any farther from the truth.

Stay with your association, enjoy the game, play with friends that you will grow up with and live near.

If it's not great try to offer help don't run away beacuse you think or more likley hope that your bigger and better than everyone else.

gotothenetman- Interesting view point. If I may. Can I ask if you went to high school in the city where you played youth hockey? Or did you play high school hockey at a private school? It sounds like you were a good player.
I'm also interested to see if you're part of a clinic or private program right now? Maybe a AAA team? (please be honest - I know a little birdy) I know it's important to you that you support your community.

Last year we had a player leave our association to develop his skills elsewhere outside the state of Minnesota. Keep in mind that he left our program going into his sophmore year. I personally applaud his decision. I thought it was funny to see my biggest critic blast me for having my son at Minnesota made. But yet he was very happy to see that this player left for bigger and better things. He even said this kid came from a great family and he wished him luck. Are you kidding me? This kid was developed in our association and AAA hockey. He made varsity as a 9th grader and then he bails to develop his skills elsewhere and the same guy who's very critical is happy for this player? Huh? Not to mention we have others being groomed to play at private schools. I know, I know these kids are leaving for one reason. Education right? Not! Here we have kids that are developed through our program planning on leaving the minute the first private school calls and we have people in our association upset because my son is playing at Minnesota made?

gotothenetman wrote: I still have many friends coaching at both the college and pro level you should talk to them once. You will not find one of them that would support MN Made or think it is a great thing. If the has the talent and the desire they will make it, but I think you probably know the stats on how many really make it. It is a game to enjoy and play with friends that you go to school with. The numbers are so small that move on why take away something that you will have forever no matter on good of player you are.

Ask your friends who coach college or pro teams where most of their players played hockey. Are you telling me that all the players played association hockey in their community? I would think that most of their players played in some sort of development program some time in their careers. Devlopment programs, private programs, national teams, juniors or AAA teams ect....

As for Minnesota made only having one good class of players. We'll see! Give it some time. Only time will tell. There are some really good players at Minnesota made. In fact, there's also some really good team all over Minnesota. Bernie didn't invent the wheel there's also some good youth associations, clinics, private programs and camps. No one is disputing this.

What is a bigger disappointment?

1) kids leaving association at the Mite level?

2) kids leaving in junior high or high school to develop their skills at private schools or private programs? Keep in mind these kids have developed in the association and bail the first opportunity they get?

If people are mad that Mites leave their association. Why don't they get mad when older kids leave? Doesn't make sense. Nothing like devoting blood, sweat and tears into the association to build a solid program only to have kids leave for bigger and better things.

[tomASS]

Last year we had a player leave our association to develop his skills elsewhere out the state of Minnesota. Keep in mind that he left our propram going into his sophmore year. I personally applaud his decision. I thought it was funny to see my biggest critic blast me for having my son at Minnesota made. But yet he was very happy to see that this player left for bigger and better things. He even said this kid came from a great family and he wished him luck. Are you kidding me? This kid was developed in our association and AAA hockey. He made varsity as a 9th grader and then he bails to develop his skills elsewhere and the same guy who's very critical is happy for this player? Huh? Not to mention we have others being groomed to play at private schools. I know, I know these kids are leaving for one reason. Education right? Not! Here we have kids that are developed through our program planning on leaving the minute the first private school calls and we have people in our association upset because my son is playing at Minnesota made?

Because there is a big difference in age that we are talking about and it was the player who was making the decisions because he was capable of doing so.

No one cares about your son and where he plays. that was never the point of debate nor does the association care where you have your son play. It was never about your son or your choice. It was about your approach.

The Chaska Association was never mad about your choice and you know that. I have seen almost all the formal correspondences.

Regarding the players that were groomed in the association, I can only think of one out of 10 that did not attend private school most of their educational upbringing. Most were always going to go to private school. That was never a secret and those kids were always treated equal based upon their ability.

[O-townClown]

O-town: I'm not sure why majority of people in Minnesota call it AAA hockey. I do know that every tourney we sign up for is called AAA something. Even the Canadians teams in Manitoba call it AAA hockey. Our team matches up very well against those teams in the 99 age group.

AAA in Minnesota seems to be a catch-all for hockey that doesn't follow the Association ("zip code hockey") model.

Canadians have AAA-level hockey. I don't know when it starts, but I know they have it by Bantams. You tell me how a team comprised mostly of Squirt B players from Edina can call themselves the Cougars and all of a sudden be AAA for the summer.

The Wisconsin Fire were registered as AAA. I don't know any 8-year-olds that are. Call it whatever you want. Sounds like a few all-star teams to me.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

O-town: I'm not sure why majority of people in Minnesota call it AAA hockey. I do know that every tourney we sign up for is called AAA something. Even the Canadians teams in Manitoba call it AAA hockey. Our team matches up very well against those teams in the 99 age group.

AAA in Minnesota seems to be a catch-all for hockey that doesn't follow the Association ("zip code hockey") model.

Canadians have AAA-level hockey. I don't know when it starts, but I know they have it by Bantams. You tell me how a team comprised mostly of Squirt B players from Edina can call themselves the Cougars and all of a sudden be AAA for the summer.

The Wisconsin Fire were registered as AAA. I don't know any 8-year-olds that are. Call it whatever you want. Sounds like a few all-star teams to me.

I'm not doubting you. I'm only going by what they tell me. I personally could careless what they call it.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Last year we had a player leave our association to develop his skills elsewhere out the state of Minnesota. Keep in mind that he left our propram going into his sophmore year. I personally applaud his decision. I thought it was funny to see my biggest critic blast me for having my son at Minnesota made. But yet he was very happy to see that this player left for bigger and better things. He even said this kid came from a great family and he wished him luck. Are you kidding me? This kid was developed in our association and AAA hockey. He made varsity as a 9th grader and then he bails to develop his skills elsewhere and the same guy who's very critical is happy for this player? Huh? Not to mention we have others being groomed to play at private schools. I know, I know these kids are leaving for one reason. Education right? Not! Here we have kids that are developed through our program planning on leaving the minute the first private school calls and we have people in our association upset because my son is playing at Minnesota made?

Because there is a big difference in age and it was the player who was making the decisions because he was capable of doing so.

tomASS- You really didn't answer the question. There's a difference in age? Is this the best you could do?

Think about it. Imagine the people that put blood, sweat and tears into developing players only to have them leave for better opportunities. Either way the kids are leaving the association or community. There's NO WAY anyone can justify it.

There's two ways you can look at it.

1) We did a great job at developing these players. Good for us and we're proud and wish him luck.

2) We did a great job at developing these players now he's bailing on us? That leaves us with a weaker team.

Either way the kid is leaving his program and community. What does it matter if he's doing it at the age of 8 or or leaving for private schools at the early age of 12- 18 years old? Are you kidding me? The greater effect will be the older kids leaving the program versus the younger kids.

Important note: I do admit I like what I see in our association this year. They are making some positive moves to better the program.

[tomASS]

Because the kid was able to make his own decision - and besides this player was inspired to do a lot of training on own without any encouragement from anyone except his own passion for the game and to become better

It doesn't matter what you do at Mites whether you leave or stay. Everyone agrees with that point

Talking about these age players and what is good or bad for them or who is best is pretty insignificant

It does matter what you do at when you are at a more physically and mentally mature age.

There is a huge difference in what a player does at this age (8?)and what a Bantam or HS player does.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Because the kid was able to make his own decision - and besides this player was inspired to do a lot of training on own without any encouragement from anyone except his own passion for the game and to become better

It doesn't matter what you do at Mites whether you leave or stay. Everyone agrees with that point

Talking about these age players and what is good or bad for them or who is best is pretty insignificant

It does matter what you do at when you are at a more physically and mentally mature age.

There is a huge difference in what a player does at this age (8?)and what a Bantam or HS player does.

Ok! You mentioned: Because the kid was able to make his own decision - and besides this player was inspired to do a lot of training on own without any encouragement from anyone except his own passion for the game and to become better. Are you kidding me?
When my son is begging me to take him to open skating or open hockey or he's puck handling in the garage on his own this doesn't count? If my son did all of this while he played in our association this is good? But if he does this being a Minnesota made athlete then this is bad? Someday we will meet. I'm actually looking forward to meeting you. I welcome you to ask my son where he wants to play hockey and why he wants to play there. He will tell you it's good development and he's playing with his friends.

I do admit the player we're refering to did work hard to become a great player. It's a great story. I do agree with his decision to leave the state of Minnesota at the young age of 15 to chase his dreams. Keep in mind that he's leaving his family and friends. I hope it all works out for him. From an earlier email I read we're both are happy for this player. It sounds like you know him or maybe have coached him? It must be rewarding to see this kid get the opportunity he's getting. Not to mention I read that this skater struggled when our association actually offered a advance Mite team. He didn't make that team and he said it made him work even harder.
I still think players like this are making these hard decisions to leave their community. I realize my son is only 8 years old. I made sure to put everything in perspective for him regarding playing for his association or Minnesota made. Why can't he just be comfortable playing with friends at Minnesota made? If he's happy why can't you accept this? Don't look any further into than you have to. There's no hidden agenda or trying to speed him through the process. He's having fun playing hockey. That's it!

I've spoken to some parents making the move back to the association. I told them it was a hard to decision to stay at MM. I told them I hope to hear that everything is great in our association this year. I want to hear how great it is and how great the coaches are. I want to hear how much fun the kids are having. This will make the move back to the association next year more enjoyable. Next year my hopes are for my son has fun playing with his local buddies. Nothing more nothing less. By the way..... I'm fine with him playing on the squirt B team next year. I'd rather have him be the better player on the B team versus playing on the third line on the A team.