New Transfer Rules - Deadline Approaching

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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ghshockeyfan
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

OntheEdge wrote:As far as GHS' opinion that you are penalizing kids that transfer for academic reasons by implementing a rule that tries to stop the creation of super teams (e.g. EP Girls Hockey, Hopkins Boys Basketball, Central's girls basketball, and arguably some of the private schools) let's just say we disagree.
If I OE for academics and am not allowed to play sports I would be punished/penalized by the rule that was to stop the creation of super teams. I don't think that's an opinion when they clearly state that's the purpose of the new rule. However, if I suck as an athlete I think they have missed their target audience with my punishment/penalty.
OntheEdge wrote:In my opinion no rule is perfect. I can see GHS' point that potentially some kids may be harmed although I think his claims are theoretical and I have not heard of any such an example. However, I think there is much evidence that many student/athletes are transferring for sports. For example, I know of at least one player who transferred this year and didn't even take one class at the new high school. How do you stop this without some kind of rule? I guess the other side of the argument is, do you want to stop allstar teams? If not, leave everything the same. If trying to make HS sports more community based and less club-like I think MSHSL has made maybe an imperfect but best attempt in the changes to the OE rules.
Agreed - but a few thoughts...

1) I think a lot more will be harmed under new vs. old rule as should be quite obvious. Any non-elite kid that moves is really being hurt then unfairly if the goal is only to stop Super Teams.

2) Some kids move schools to facilitate post-secondary/college coursework, etc. This may mean that if they have been ahead of the game in grades 9-11 that maybe by 12th they only have those college courses to take off-HS campus...

3) I understand the goal (reduce Super Teams) but I think addressing OE/private movement only is not going to stop them. We'll see more use of alternate addresses used/transfer of guardianship, moving, etc. My greatest fear is what will happen to the kids that won't have these options though and are doing things for the right reasons (and not certain still that any of us are really supposed to be determining what's right for someone else's child but their family - but that another whole discussion too...)
hockeyrube
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Post by hockeyrube »

[GHS WROTE]

OK - Let's count the "abuses" by # of players. I bet they are less than 10 in G HS Hockey MSHSL wise. And what are these "abuses?" The move of NDP level players between schools? I guess that's what I assume we're referencing?

How many were OE?

How many were Private?

I don't want names - not names of kid nor school/teams, just numbers please...

Agreed that we shouldn't name names.... but I think there are exponentially more than 10.
Publics
EP - if you include all grades - at least 6
Centennial - 2 I know about - more ???
Edina - 1 for sure - more ???
Northern schools - much moreso than cities - Bemidji goalie + others ???
Stillwater - 1 for sure

Privates - many more but IMO have to be considered seperately - like comparing an apple/orange.

What lies in there motivations - athletics or academics ???? truthfully none of us really knows but the kids/familys.

I guess I am tired of the whole O/E debate - lots of emotions and lots of good arguments on both sides. Personally, I just don't give a flip anymore -
Rube
[/quote]
ghshockeyfan
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

hockeyrube wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote: OK - Let's count the "abuses" by # of players. I bet they are less than 10 in G HS Hockey MSHSL wise. And what are these "abuses?" The move of NDP level players between schools? I guess that's what I assume we're referencing?

How many were OE?

How many were Private?

I don't want names - not names of kid nor school/teams, just numbers please...
Agreed that we shouldn't name names.... but I think there are exponentially more than 10.
Publics
EP - if you include all grades - at least 6
Centennial - 2 I know about - more ???
Edina - 1 for sure - more ???
Northern schools - much moreso than cities - Bemidji goalie + others ???
Stillwater - 1 for sure

Privates - many more but IMO have to be considered seperately - like comparing an apple/orange.

What lies in there motivations - athletics or academics ???? truthfully none of us really knows but the kids/familys.

I guess I am tired of the whole O/E debate - lots of emotions and lots of good arguments on both sides. Personally, I just don't give a flip anymore -
Rube
I would argue that there are many more kids that OE for education that also play hockey than those NDP level players. And, I'm not sold that those NDP kids are always moving for hockey alone - we just perceive this as the case automatically even if it's not the reality.

Agreed on the OE debate - I'm sick of it too...
OntheEdge
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Post by OntheEdge »

hockeyrube wrote:[GHS WROTE]

I guess I am tired of the whole O/E debate - lots of emotions and lots of good arguments on both sides. Personally, I just don't give a flip anymore -
Rube
[/quote]

Amen Rube I'm with you. I can see everyone's point and I don't think there is a clear perfect answer. Whatever they decide is fine by me. In the grand scheme of life the fact that some parents and schools take advantage of rules or lack there of is just another little annoyance.
ghshockeyfan
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/NewTransferBylaw.doc

New as of today:

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/TransferQA2007.doc?mj=9

Updated 3-22-07
Minnesota State High School League
Bylaw 111, Transfer and Residence
Questions and Answers


Q. What do I need to do to open enroll before March 30, 2007?

A. You must contact the athletic administrator at the school you intend to transfer to and notify him or her of your desire to transfer to that school. The athletic administrator or another person with that responsibility assigned by the school will begin the transfer process. You should obtain a written verification form from the school that your application preceded the March 30, 2007 deadline.

Q. If I’m already open enrolled or attending a school that’s not in the area where I live, can I continue to go to that school and be eligible?

A. Yes, you can continue to attend your current school. The new transfer bylaw will not change your current eligibility status. Should you decide to transfer in the future, the conditions of the new bylaw would be applied.

Q. What information do I need to give a “new” school if I plan to transfer before March 30, 2007?

A. Each school will have their own intake process for new students. You should ask them what they need from you, but you should also obtain a written verification from the school that your application preceded the March 30, 2007 deadline.

Q. Do I need to get anything in writing from the school I plan to transfer to before the March 30, 2007 deadline?

A. Once you meet with the school and inform them of your intent to transfer, you should obtain a written verification from the school that your application preceded the March 30, 2007 deadline. The school will also keep your name on a master list and submit the list to the League.

Q. How will the school I transfer to identify me as a new student with full eligibility when I attend there in the fall of 2007? How will they know I’ve met the March 30, 2007 deadline?

A. All schools will submit a master list to the League indicating those students who have expressed their intent to transfer. If you have contacted the school by the deadline, the school will confirm your intent in writing.

Q. What if I register at a “new” school before March 30, 2007, and then decide not to go there and stay in my current school?

A. If you do not transfer, your eligibility status will not change at your current school.

Q. What if I’m not sure if I want to transfer to a “new” school but have registered before March 30, 2007? If I just go to a couple of practices before school starts and change my mind, can I go back to my old school and be eligible?

A. Your intent to transfer becomes an actual transfer if you participate in a practice or attend school at the new school.

Q. What happens if I don’t physically transfer to my “new” school before March 30, 2007?

A. If you physically transfer to your new school before the end of the current school year, you’ll be subject to conditions of the current bylaw. To be able to use the existing “One Time Free Move” under open enrollment you must declare your intent to transfer by the March 30 deadline. You should not physically transfer until you complete the school year at your current school.

Q. What is my eligibility status if I’m accepted as a transfer student but filled out all of the paperwork after the March 30, 2007 deadline?

A. If you do not declare your intent to transfer by the March 30 deadline, your eligibility will be subject to the rules of the new transfer bylaw.

Q. What if I just transfer to a new school after the March 30, 2007 deadline but don’t do so under open enrollment or anything else? Where am I eligible and at what level(s) am I eligible? What if I transfer after the school year ends?

A. If you transfer up until the conclusion of the 2006-2007 school year the current bylaw rules will apply, and the conditions of your transfer will determine your eligibility status. If you transfer after the conclusion of the 2006-2007 school year and you do not have a corresponding parent residence move from one school district attendance area to another school district attendance area, you will be ineligible for varsity competition at your new school for one calendar year, beginning with your first day of attendance at the new school.

Q. What if my school drops a sport I’m in? Can I transfer and be eligible at another school?

A. You are eligible to participate in the League sponsored programs at the school you attend. If the school does not offer a program or decides to drop a program, you would no longer be able to participate in that sport. If you transfer to a new school that offers that program, you will be subject to all of the conditions of the new transfer rule.

Q. Can my parents change guardians through the courts so that I can live with someone else, go to another school and be eligible at that school?

A. Guardianship is not recognized by the League for purposes of establishing residence. If your parents do not move to another school district attendance area, you will be ineligible for varsity participation at your new school for one calendar year, beginning with your first day of attendance at the new school.

Q. I know my parents have to move from one school district attendance area to another school district attendance area for me to be eligible at a “new” school. I know they also have to show lots of papers showing that they moved, but what if our cell phone has a different address than where we move?

A. There are a number of documents your school or the League may require from you to show proof of a bona fide parent residence move and occupancy. Your cell phone statement is one of those documents. The school has the responsibility of determining your eligibility and any residence information that does not match may delay or change your eligibility status.

Q. What if my parents have never been married? Can I live with each of them and still be eligible?

A. You can live with each of your parents and remain eligible at your school. The conditions of the transfer rule affect your eligibility when you transfer schools, not when you move between parents. You could attend school in the district where your mom lives and then move to live with your dad in another school district without changing your eligibility status at your current school. However, if you decide to move from one parent to another and also transfer schools, you will be subject to the conditions of the transfer bylaw.

Q. What if a school district has more than one school? How can I transfer and still be eligible?

A. A school district with more than one school will have attendance areas for each school. If you transfer between schools in one school district and you want to be fully eligible at the new school, your parents must move from your current school district attendance area to the other school district attendance area. Multiple high school districts may also have local attendance and eligibility issues that would be handled through a waiver process.

Q. What if none of the transfer reasons for eligibility apply to me? What can I do?

A. You should contact your “new” school’s athletic administrator who can, in turn, contact the League office regarding a possible waiver.

Q. What does public school district attendance area mean?

A. The term “public school district attendance area” shall be understood to refer to the area assigned to a specific high school by a Board of Education and shall not refer to a school district except in cases in which only one high school exists in a school district.

Q. What is a marking period? Can I stay in my current school and pick any marking period when I’m able to transfer to where my mom and dad moved and be eligible right away?

A. A marking period is defined by your school at the time you receive your grades. A marking period could be at the end of the quarter, trimester or semester, but this is an independent decision made at the local school level.

Q. Who decides when a marking period ends?

A. The school decides when the marking period ends.

Q. What if my school has a co-op and I transfer to another school in the co-op but my parents don’t move? Am I eligible for all of the sports and fine arts activities in the school to which I transferred?

A. No, you would only be eligible at the varsity level in the activities already cooperatively sponsored between the school from which you transferred and the “new” school to which you transferred.

Q. Does this transfer eligibility apply to fine arts activities too?

A. No. The transfer bylaw applies only to a student’s eligibility for participation in MSHSL athletic programs sponsored by the school the student attends.

Q. What if none of the transfer rules apply to me but I think my situation is unique and want to appeal? What do I do?

A. Your “new” school’s athletic/activities director can help you complete a waiver form, which would be submitted to your “old” school for verification. The form would then be sent to the League office for a final determination of eligibility.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

I noticed there were no questions on private schools and requirements to change residences. The last I heard, in order for the penalty to not apply the parent(s) must change residences, but not necessarily to within the public school district boundary that the private school is located in. Is this still correct?

And of course all of this assumes that the Legislature won't act in some fashion to modify or totally override the new rules.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

It appears that the whole issue just became less of a priority for the Legislature:

http://www.startribune.com/526/story/1073025.html
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

Well the deadline is now upon us and there doesn't seem to be much chance of an override in the Legislature - they're now too preoccupied with spending and raising taxes to worry much about high school kids.

So has anyone heard of any high profile players who plan to take advantage of the grace period leading up to 3/31? I guess by now I would have thought there would at least be a few...
Oilers08
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Post by Oilers08 »

MNHockeyFan wrote:So has anyone heard of any high profile players who plan to take advantage of the grace period leading up to 3/31? I guess by now I would have thought there would at least be a few...
Lindsey Burman from Cambridge O.E.'s to Hopkins. She finished her year with 19 goals and 11 assists.

Hopkins sends 4 girls to phase 2, 5 including their newest addition;
Kallie Billadeau G 92
Cara Johnson F 91
Becky Kortum F 91
Molly Ostroot D 90
Lindsey Burman F 91

O.K. People lets spill the beans on O.E.'s :D
trilogy
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Post by trilogy »

MNHockeyFan wrote: So has anyone heard of any high profile players who plan to take advantage of the grace period leading up to 3/31? I guess by now I would have thought there would at least be a few...
Seems more likely right now that we'd hear who is transfering from publics to privates, especialy those going into 9th grade fall 2007.

Anyone know who Holy Angels, Hill Murray, Blake, Breck, Benilde have attracted for next fall?

Only one I can think of is Jordan Burns to Benilde next year, but her parents say she is in a private school now and always planned to go to Benilde, so it is no surprise and nothing to do with the transfer rule.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

Oilers08 wrote:
MNHockeyFan wrote:So has anyone heard of any high profile players who plan to take advantage of the grace period leading up to 3/31? I guess by now I would have thought there would at least be a few...
Lindsey Burman from Cambridge O.E.'s to Hopkins. She finished her year with 19 goals and 11 assists.
That's a long ways to go, from Cambridge to Hopkins. There are many good "hockey schools" in between...
Thunderbird77
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Post by Thunderbird77 »

Maybe it has something to do with academics. Isn't Hopkins a top rated school academically. It's amazing that if a top player transfers, everyone assumes its all about and only about athletics.
rwb1351
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Post by rwb1351 »

Thunderbird77 wrote:Maybe it has something to do with academics. Isn't Hopkins a top rated school academically. It's amazing that if a top player transfers, everyone assumes its all about and only about athletics.
well how often is it the case? it's only natural to assume when probably 90% of the time it is in fact true.
ghshockeyfan
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

I think we might be surprised. And, the only ones that ever really know are the student-athletes & their family members.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

Thunderbird77 wrote:Maybe it has something to do with academics.
Yes, you would certainly hope this would be the case. From their house north of Cambridge it's a 60 mile drive one way, 120 miles round trip. To put up with this everyday, the academics would have to be pretty special.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

MNHockeyFan wrote: Yes, you would certainly hope this would be the case. From their house north of Cambridge it's a 60 mile drive one way, 120 miles round trip. To put up with this everyday, the academics would have to be pretty special.
Just learned that Lindsay will be staying during the school week with another family and will therefore will not have to endure the long commute back and forth. It might be just a coincidence, but the other family happens to have a daughter who plays on the hockey team. :wink:
Thunderbird77
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Post by Thunderbird77 »

MNHockey Fan-

Doesn't Trunzo travel from Andover every day to go to BSM? My guess is that when she transferred it wasn't just about hockey. It seems hypocritical to question one person's motives when there is a similar example in your own backyard. You know what they say about people that live in glass houses. GHS has it right again. "...the only ones who really ever know are the student-athlete and their family members.". Let's stop attaching a stigma to the players and schools that have transfers. All of the transfers have been (and will continue to be) according to what the rules allow. If it wasn't according to the rules, I have faith that the MSHL would ban the player from competition and we'd hear about it here first.
MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan »

Thunderbird,

First I agree with you that players should be perfectly free to transfer as long as they stay within the rules, and in fact I wish they would have left the rules just as they were. At least in girls hockey there haven't been enough "abuses" of the system, if you want to call it that, to warrant the new restrictions on individuals being able to exercise their right to school choice, and this has been my opinion from Day 1. And if in some way I implied there was any intent to skirt the new rules, then I wish to apologize as this was not what I meant. Whatever the intentions really are in a transfer situation, it really doesn't matter (in the grand scheme of things) as long as no rules are broken, and again I certainly didn't mean to imply that they might have been here.

It's best that I leave it at that so we can move on.
Stillh2ofan
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Post by Stillh2ofan »

Runor has it a goalie from Somerset has transfered to Cretin.
ghshockeyfan
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

Stillh2ofan wrote:Runor has it a goalie from Somerset has transfered to Cretin.
It is true. She is outstanding. I've posted her name on here before. She is a Junior. She's already at Cretin I believe.
UWhockey88
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Post by UWhockey88 »

EP - if you include all grades - at least 6
Centennial - 2 I know about - more ???
Edina - 1 for sure - more ???
Northern schools - much moreso than cities - Bemidji goalie + others ???
Stillwater - 1 for sure

FYI: Centennial school district encompasses Lino Lakes, Blaine, Circle Pines, Lexington and Centerville. Centennial had one O/E player that did not live in any of those cities. Academics are better at Centennial than in her district. She also graduats this year with a 3.9 GPA. Kudos to her!
icefan
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Post by icefan »

Heard one of the Lakeville goalies is OE to Eastview this fall. Her Dad is one of the EV coaches. Also heard Eastview's U14A goalie will be going to AHA or Visitation next year. I guess she's always been in private school and wasn't ever planning on attending Eastview.
trilogy
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EP losing a few

Post by trilogy »

Heard at the superrink this weekend, some defections expected from Eden Prairie. A couple of seniors will not be returning. Might they be headed to TBreds or moving in order to attend another school, it was not clear but word is two or three players definitely leaving. Is there trouble brewing in the house of Morris?
MNHockeyFan
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Re: EP losing a few

Post by MNHockeyFan »

trilogy wrote:Heard at the superrink this weekend, some defections expected from Eden Prairie. A couple of seniors will not be returning. Might they be headed to TBreds or moving in order to attend another school, it was not clear but word is two or three players definitely leaving. Is there trouble brewing in the house of Morris?
I have heard that Hannah Riggs along with her younger sister Megan are intending to enroll at Benilde. But you never know on these types of situations until the first day of school. Don't know anything about any of the other seniors you might be alluding to.
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Post by ghshockeyfan »

I think a lot of people put through the paperwork a lot of places before the deadline to keep their options open leading up to the start of school next year. As long as that paperwork was done before the deadline, you then have options. If not, you will be sitting a year by the new guidelines.

I have heard far more movement rumored this year than any past year and I believe this is due to the new rules. After this year though it will be harder.
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