Now is the time to force all Privates up to "AA"

[PuckU126]

Where is PuckU126 with the two little guys eating popcorn????

The other two images are pretty good as well.

[PuckU126]

BTW

^^^ Best. Music. Video. Ever.^^^

[Mite-dad]

The more you complain or try to prove your point the more I laugh. I hope Breck and STA stay in class A just to make you mad! Your moaning has become quite pathetic. Not everything is fair, get over it!

Its more about growing a pair and playing where you truly belong. Most private school supporters agree they should move up like other private schools have that have had success at the A level.

where does cathedral belong in your small town opinion? i think you need to differentiate between metro and outstate private schools. i think i know how you will answer...the last time cathedral and little falls where in the same section cathedral beat them in the section final to go to the tier II tournament. (1993)

I'm not sure. You could argue that Cathedral is consistently the best hockey team in central MN. They are nearly always the best team in St. Cloud and typically draw the best talent in the area (which is not small town IMO). I think they are on the fence. I think I'd let them stay in A until (if) they started dominating the tournament. Honestly, I don't know why they get put into the section they do. Put them into 6 and the section gains credibility although they would probably dominate it which would suck for the teams that are in the section now. I feel the same way about Lourdes and Marshall at this point.

[northern_guy]

mite-dad...i agree...a stonger central minnesota section with teams like little falls, alexandria, cathedral, hopefully sartell plays to their potential in a few years and apollo rebounds to something of a respectable team and it would be a fun area for section hockey..right now its not where it needs to be. i am sure you like seeing little falls dominate 6A every year but come on...they do not compete at the high Class A level. I do not think Cathedral will ever dominate or even ever win a class A title until the brecks and STA's are gone. st. cloud is a working mans town and not many can justify the $8200 tuition (if you are catholic) ...i do not think of duluth marshall, rochester lourdes and cathedral as the privates people love to hate.

[hockey59]

For those of us who (insist) that all the best (or highest level) MN HS hockey programs compete for a State title in the highest class level available...maybe the answer is actually very simple.

The highest level class should be re-named the "A" level by the MSHSL (ie, similiar to the Bantam A and PeeWee A youth level State Tournaments)

The 2nd level class should be re-named the "B " level by the MSHSL (ie, similiar to Bantam B1 and PeeWee B1 youth level State Tournaments)

I have a feeling that is about the only thing the MSHSL could actually do which would SHAME the Headmaster of STA and the leader of other privates like BRECK into playing where they belong...because they certainly couldn't stomach the idea of their teams being classified a "B" level

[rainier]

The Breck-STA game was excellent, two very good teams. Hermantown will have to play better than they did today to beat them.

These kids obviously know they should be in AA. The refusal of the powers that be to move up sends a bad message to the students about sportsmanship and respecting your opponents.

I'm sorry, but if you only admit the smartest kids and the best hockey players, then your boasts of academic and athletic excellence ring hollow, especially when you play in Class A. Like the poster who worked at both private/public schools said, you take the top kids academically at any public school and they are every bit as talented as STA kids.

Put STA in any outstate city where they have only the local community to choose from instead of a huge slice of a major metro area and they would do no better than the local public school has, academically and athletically. It's a good thing all you STA guys are so impressed with yourselves, because no one else is.

Leadership? Please.

[KrautBache]

qqq

[HShockeywatcher]

Comparing swimming to hockey?? That is your argument? That's bad, even for you.

Lee

Well this statement just shows how little you know about swimming.

Sure, they're different types of games, but all the external things that are required to be successful, especially on a team level, are the same or very similar.
It is no coincidence that many of the teams who are at the top of one in their respective class are at the top of their class in the other.

No, your response shows how little you know about high school hockey in Minnesota. Which wouldn't be bad otherwise, except you're posting this drivel on a forum dedicated to high school hockey in Minnesota. No wonder the Lessers used to take such pleasure in their comments regarding you.

Swimming similar to hockey? In what imaginary world does that happen? Hockey is different. One secret reason why: "It's the money, stupid". That "external thing" you speak of. How much of a financial commitment, over the years, is required for a family to grow a top-notch swimming prospect? Compared to hockey? This is what you don't understand. Again.

Lee

Gee, that is grand. The moderator of the board calls me stupid implying I don't know the one thing that I have personally posted numerous times on this board.

Sure, a suit/goggles cost more than hockey equipment so you may be right that it is not exactly the same amount, but a lifelong financial commitment is generally part of swimming success.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be "right," just trying to participate in a discussion that is full of people with many misconceptions. From my time using this board, I have learned a lot and my opinion has been changed numerous times from both posts and PM discussions I've had with people from varying experiences and backgrounds. Generally, I post either about things I know about or questions about what I don't.

After 15 pages of this, it is apparent that people who are unfamiliar with something are not that interested in learning about it, but rather continually pointing fingers. Anyway, have fun repeating yourself over and over and solving nothing.

[east hockey]

Well this statement just shows how little you know about swimming.

Sure, they're different types of games, but all the external things that are required to be successful, especially on a team level, are the same or very similar.
It is no coincidence that many of the teams who are at the top of one in their respective class are at the top of their class in the other.

No, your response shows how little you know about high school hockey in Minnesota. Which wouldn't be bad otherwise, except you're posting this drivel on a forum dedicated to high school hockey in Minnesota. No wonder the Lessers used to take such pleasure in their comments regarding you.

Swimming similar to hockey? In what imaginary world does that happen? Hockey is different. One secret reason why: "It's the money, stupid". That "external thing" you speak of. How much of a financial commitment, over the years, is required for a family to grow a top-notch swimming prospect? Compared to hockey? This is what you don't understand. Again.

Lee

Gee, that is grand. The moderator of the board calls me stupid implying I don't know the one thing that I have personally posted numerous times on this board.

Sure, a suit/goggles cost more than hockey equipment so you may be right that it is not exactly the same amount, but a lifelong financial commitment is generally part of swimming success.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be "right," just trying to participate in a discussion that is full of people with many misconceptions. From my time using this board, I have learned a lot and my opinion has been changed numerous times from both posts and PM discussions I've had with people from varying experiences and backgrounds. Generally, I post either about things I know about or questions about what I don't.

After 15 pages of this, it is apparent that people who are unfamiliar with something are not that interested in learning about it, but rather continually pointing fingers. Anyway, have fun repeating yourself over and over and solving nothing.

I hope you were looking in a mirror when you typed that.

Lee

[KrautBache]

Maybe this has already been proposed (and if so I apologize for not reading the past 10 years of postings on this forum). But maybe a step towards encouraging teams that shouldn't be in "A" to move up to "AA" would be to prohibit "A" teams from playing "AA" teams (and vice versa). Right now, some A teams get the best of both worlds -- the chance to show they're "legitimate" by playing AA teams, and an easier ticket to the X by staying in A. Perhaps a rule requiring teams to play only within their "class" would encourage teams to pick the "right" class.

[east hockey]

Maybe this has already been proposed (and if so I apologize for not reading the past 10 years of postings on this forum). But maybe a step towards encouraging teams that shouldn't be in "A" to move up to "AA" would be to prohibit "A" teams from playing "AA" teams (and vice versa). Right now, some A teams get the best of both worlds -- the chance to show they're "legitimate" by playing AA teams, and an easier ticket to the X by staying in A. Perhaps a rule requiring teams to play only within their "class" would encourage teams to pick the "right" class.

The main problem in this is that some conferences are a mix of A and AA teams (Lake Superior Conference, Iron Range Conference come immediately to mind).

Lee

[KrautBache]

Maybe this has already been proposed (and if so I apologize for not reading the past 10 years of postings on this forum). But maybe a step towards encouraging teams that shouldn't be in "A" to move up to "AA" would be to prohibit "A" teams from playing "AA" teams (and vice versa). Right now, some A teams get the best of both worlds -- the chance to show they're "legitimate" by playing AA teams, and an easier ticket to the X by staying in A. Perhaps a rule requiring teams to play only within their "class" would encourage teams to pick the "right" class.

The main problem in this is that some conferences are a mix of A and AA teams (Lake Superior Conference, Iron Range Conference come immediately to mind).

Lee

There could be an exception to the rule for geographical areas where there is a shortage of teams to play in one class or the other. That would be pretty easy to determine (e.g., X number of teams available to play within Y miles of the school).

[thestickler07]

Maybe this has already been proposed (and if so I apologize for not reading the past 10 years of postings on this forum). But maybe a step towards encouraging teams that shouldn't be in "A" to move up to "AA" would be to prohibit "A" teams from playing "AA" teams (and vice versa). Right now, some A teams get the best of both worlds -- the chance to show they're "legitimate" by playing AA teams, and an easier ticket to the X by staying in A. Perhaps a rule requiring teams to play only within their "class" would encourage teams to pick the "right" class.

Its an interesting idea that I'd like them to try and work into scheduling. If sections and conferences were merged together this would be much closer to reality because you would only be playing schools in your class in conference. I suppose the only exceptions you could make would be for holiday tournaments? Or none at all?

[KrautBache]

Maybe this has already been proposed (and if so I apologize for not reading the past 10 years of postings on this forum). But maybe a step towards encouraging teams that shouldn't be in "A" to move up to "AA" would be to prohibit "A" teams from playing "AA" teams (and vice versa). Right now, some A teams get the best of both worlds -- the chance to show they're "legitimate" by playing AA teams, and an easier ticket to the X by staying in A. Perhaps a rule requiring teams to play only within their "class" would encourage teams to pick the "right" class.

Its an interesting idea that I'd like them to try and work into scheduling. If sections and conferences were merged together this would be much closer to reality because you would only be playing schools in your class in conference. I suppose the only exceptions you could make would be for holiday tournaments? Or none at all?

I'd say no exceptions for tournaments. If you're a class A team, you should be happy to only play other class A teams (unless because of geography/population you don't have enough class A teams to play).

[thestickler07]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_201 ... er-classes

Throw another log on the fire!! Let's get this baby to 20+ pages!!

[The Talon]

St Thomas enrollment is listed at 1066. I assume they double the boys enrollment numbers to come up with this...Why doesnt MSHSL draw the AA line at 1000?

Anyway, I do find it interesting that the 2 schools that opted up in AA will be playing for the championship, averaging 1/6 the enrollment of the publics

[Master Recruiter]

St Thomas enrollment is listed at 1066. I assume they double the boys enrollment numbers to come up with this...Why doesnt MSHSL draw the AA line at 1000?

Anyway, I do find it interesting that the 2 schools that opted up in AA will be playing for the championship, averaging 1/6 the enrollment of the publics

enrollment should never be part of the argument. It is the talent pool (size of the community) that should be taken into consideration when determining what class each team should play

[paulsonj72]

St Thomas enrollment is listed at 1066. I assume they double the boys enrollment numbers to come up with this...Why doesnt MSHSL draw the AA line at 1000?

Anyway, I do find it interesting that the 2 schools that opted up in AA will be playing for the championship, averaging 1/6 the enrollment of the publics

That enrollment IS the doubled enrollment. STA has an enrollment of 533. Which is then doubled because it is an all boys school(and the only one left in the state)

[goldy313]

STA is inching closer to AA hockey, the top 64 keeps dropping, it was 1165 or so this year with Kennedy and Rochester Century the bottom 2 teams. With the inner ring suburbs F/R rates increasing and some programs folding we're getting closer and closer to STA becoming an AA team. If they changed the Co-op rule back to a percentage system STA probably would be AA.

[goldy313]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_201 ... er-classes

Throw another log on the fire!! Let's get this baby to 20+ pages!!

Les Larson quote "We have 185 boys (in grades) 9 through 12, I don't know how we have a football team but we do. We have 47 kids in our program. That's 25% of our boys, and that's OK if you're Shattuck but we're not Shattuck, we're Breck."

Really he can't be that ignorant can he?
First off Breck is a AAA football program there are 3 classes below them that still play football, the cut off for 9 man is 165 students, not boys, students. The State Academy for the Deaf has 46 students and fields a football team for cripes sakes Les. Kittson Central made the state semi finals with 80 students/

Second, there are AA teams that don't have 47 boys out for hockey, probably more than half the AA teams don't. The 3 Rochester schools don't cut anyone anymore, outside of the Lakeville schools I'd be suprised if any team in 1AA or 8AA has 47 kids even try out for hockey. There are plenty of A teams that can't even field a JV.

Geez talk about a really clueless spokesman for the status quo....

[HShockeywatcher]

STA is inching closer to AA hockey, the top 64 keeps dropping, it was 1165 or so this year with Kennedy and Rochester Century the bottom 2 teams. With the inner ring suburbs F/R rates increasing and some programs folding we're getting closer and closer to STA becoming an AA team. If they changed the Co-op rule back to a percentage system STA probably would be AA.

Interesting; I've been saying this for a while. We have co-ops in AA that are just a combination of multiple A schools that can't field teams themselves. Mpls in AA, Johnson in AA, that's silly. Change that and things are different.

[PuckRanger]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_201 ... er-classes

Throw another log on the fire!! Let's get this baby to 20+ pages!!

Les Larson quote "We have 185 boys (in grades) 9 through 12, I don't know how we have a football team but we do. We have 47 kids in our program. That's 25% of our boys, and that's OK if you're Shattuck but we're not Shattuck, we're Breck."

Really he can't be that ignorant can he?
First off Breck is a AAA football program there are 3 classes below them that still play football, the cut off for 9 man is 165 students, not boys, students. The State Academy for the Deaf has 46 students and fields a football team for cripes sakes Les. Kittson Central made the state semi finals with 80 students/

Second, there are AA teams that don't have 47 boys out for hockey, probably more than half the AA teams don't. The 3 Rochester schools don't cut anyone anymore, outside of the Lakeville schools I'd be suprised if any team in 1AA or 8AA has 47 kids even try out for hockey. There are plenty of A teams that can't even field a JV.

Geez talk about a really clueless spokesman for the status quo....

Maybe Mr. Larson (and a few others) should go spend a year or two coaching a class A team up on the Iron Range. Maybe after they realize they have to be careful how many periods some guys play in the JV game so they have enough players for the varsity game they will understand what class A size really is. Even the more successful programs like Hibbing and Virginia would LOVE to have 47 kids try out...

[defense]

norther_guy: you're off your rocker, you add one team to section 6 and all of a sudden it is ten times better???? give me a break.

KrauteBache: At least you throw out ideas, I personally don't like being forced to play games only in your class or being forced to play all section teams.
The MSHSL does not set up sections based on competive reasons. This is reason enough to not do it. You would have teams like Little Falls or Willmar who have decent youth programs and over longer periods time have very strong teams being forced to waste way too many games on teams that just are not competitive. Put another way: Willmar, Fergus Falls, Alexandria, Little Falls, Sartell, and Apollo High School are in section 6. Not all are having great runs lately, but all have been successful in the past and likely will be successful in the future. Forcing theim to waste games against teams who have not been succesful for whatever reason would not be fair. Why force them to lower their competition level to the lesser 4 for 5 teams in the section??? We all agree that having a strong schedule is key... for further proof look at what has happened in Detroit Lakes compared to Moorhead. Doubtfull Moorhead would've been in OT against Hill tonight in the semi's of the AA tournement had they started playing a schedule like DL's.... it also can be argued that DL would likely be in much better shape if they would schedule more games with programs of their caliber...
HSHW: though I am not around swimming, I have to assume that probably people do talk the same way. I am not saying that I care if St. Thomas Academy ever moves classes in any sport, but I would doubt the subject never comes up. Maybe the swim coaches are less frank???
I know that last year's champion really had something to be proud of compared to if St. Thomas was not there.....

[rainier]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_201 ... er-classes

Throw another log on the fire!! Let's get this baby to 20+ pages!!

Les Larson quote "We have 185 boys (in grades) 9 through 12, I don't know how we have a football team but we do. We have 47 kids in our program. That's 25% of our boys, and that's OK if you're Shattuck but we're not Shattuck, we're Breck."

Really he can't be that ignorant can he?
First off Breck is a AAA football program there are 3 classes below them that still play football, the cut off for 9 man is 165 students, not boys, students. The State Academy for the Deaf has 46 students and fields a football team for cripes sakes Les. Kittson Central made the state semi finals with 80 students/

Second, there are AA teams that don't have 47 boys out for hockey, probably more than half the AA teams don't. The 3 Rochester schools don't cut anyone anymore, outside of the Lakeville schools I'd be suprised if any team in 1AA or 8AA has 47 kids even try out for hockey. There are plenty of A teams that can't even field a JV.

Geez talk about a really clueless spokesman for the status quo....

Maybe Mr. Larson (and a few others) should go spend a year or two coaching a class A team up on the Iron Range. Maybe after they realize they have to be careful how many periods some guys play in the JV game so they have enough players for the varsity game they will understand what class A size really is. Even the more successful programs like Hibbing and Virginia would LOVE to have 47 kids try out...

Yep.

[KrautBache]

KrauteBache: At least you throw out ideas, I personally don't like being forced to play games only in your class or being forced to play all section teams.
The MSHSL does not set up sections based on competive reasons. This is reason enough to not do it. You would have teams like Little Falls or Willmar who have decent youth programs and over longer periods time have very strong teams being forced to waste way too many games on teams that just are not competitive. Put another way: Willmar, Fergus Falls, Alexandria, Little Falls, Sartell, and Apollo High School are in section 6. Not all are having great runs lately, but all have been successful in the past and likely will be successful in the future. Forcing theim to waste games against teams who have not been succesful for whatever reason would not be fair. Why force them to lower their competition level to the lesser 4 for 5 teams in the section??? We all agree that having a strong schedule is key... for further proof look at what has happened in Detroit Lakes compared to Moorhead. Doubtfull Moorhead would've been in OT against Hill tonight in the semi's of the AA tournement had they started playing a schedule like DL's.... it also can be argued that DL would likely be in much better shape if they would schedule more games with programs of their caliber...

Defense, I think that you have helped to illustrate why my idea (requiring A teams to only play other A teams (subject to an exception for areas where the # of teams is below a certain number)) would work. "A" teams could travel around the state to play better A teams as much as they want (just like AA teams like Moorhead, GR, and Duluth East do to play a better variety of decent AA competition then would otherwise be available in their area). If an A team still believes that it is "too good" to play the available A talent, its only option would be to opt up and be an AA team. Nobody is forcing them to lower their competition level -- it is their choice whether they are A or AA. If they are truly an A level team, they should be happy to only play other A level teams. If they are not happy being limited to A teams, that's a pretty good sign that they are in the wrong class.