AA Rankings for 12/18/22

[ClassAGuy]

Another argument to add if you hate the Holy Family one cause they are a private recruit kids (If you wanna believe that doesn't happen at Hermantown, Warroad, EGF, etc...) ok then lets throw out Privates.

What about let's say Armtrong/Cooper this year a AA by enrollments just over the line. They have zero chance in Class AA and in 6AA. However, they are a very good team this year have a really nice group of kids. If they were in Class A they would make Class A overall better and they would have chance to be playing on Friday at the X. As we saw in Class A with the Monticello Moose (2017) & Alexandria (2018) & Greenway (2019) once you get the Semis crazy things can happen and you could end up playing on Saturday with a chance to win a title.

My point is Armstrong/Cooper should be in A not AA and they would on good years like this year help Class A.

[east hockey]

As someone once said "Seriously?" I firmly believe if schools Class A size that are outsiders in AA but still good programs but just not able to truly contend for AA titles to name a few: Blake & AHA (as mentioned before), Bemidji in 8A could turn into a contender, Cloquet in 7A in certain years could be a contender they have played the Hawks very tight over the years.

Heck you know what just to blow up your argument entirely Gentry just won the Class A Title 2 years again if they returned they at least be considered in the hunt for Class A where as in AA they are an outsider.

I am not understanding your rebuttal at all I guess....

I wouldn't characterize Cloquet playing Hermantown very tight over the years or even remotely tight, and certainly not over the last ten years. They're 1-10-2 and have been defeated by five or more goals in five of those, included the last three. Them moving down to Class A only means there will be less teams pounding on them on a regular basis.

If you really want Class A to be nearly as meaningful as Class AA, there is one possible solution and one which used to make me throw up in my mouth--disallow opt ups. I realize by doing this, private schools will now dominate Class A and we remember the screams from the days when schools such as STA and Breck ran roughshod over their lesser Class A opponents.

Lee

Finally Thank you Lee a reasonable reply.

The Cloquet was more reference to teams I think it was like 2017-18, 2018-19 around those years when they still had Langenbrunner, Stoyanff, Rassmussen etc... I don't know if they have a group like that coming up again anytime soon and even that group kind of well self destructed at the high school level.

I dont ever intend or think Class A will be as meaningful to most as AA. That was never my argument or point. I was saying that if certain Class A size enrollment teams like Blake, AHA, Bemidji and even Cloquet in good cycle of kids they could add depth to the Class A field and contend for a Title where as in AA not gonna happen the way things are set up. I know AHA was power keg in the early 2000's but things are way different and the area they draw from is different.

Example is Holy Family this year was Class A they would make Class A deeper they wouldn't blow everyone out and they probably would not win the Class A title but they could at least contend where as in 2AA its gonna be a mighty mountain for them to just get to the Tourney.

I agree I hate the idea of enrollment cut off forced and we have seen when teams get good at Class A and win there is a call to move AA (Like STA, Gentry, Breck, and Hermantown) recently.

My point was it would be better overall for Class A if those teams that are not in the "Country Club" of AA go back to A and it would deepen the sections.

I just got annoyed when someone took what I said and turned it into Class A vs AA there is no comparison and I wasnt even arguing about A vs AA, and when they came back with the argument that no one coming down from AA to A would contend it was just such a oblivious and wrong statement I could not resist and blow that terrible take out of the water.

Again I am not campaigning for any changes or trying to compare A vs AA its not close I know this. But I do think there are schools right now in AA who have no chance to contend that could come to A make it better field not run roughshod over Class A teams and every once in awhile have group or team good enough to win the thing. Thats all....

Thank you again for your take Lee it was reasonable and made sense.

No problem, Class A. The class thing tends to bring out some strong reactions where emotions can at times overrule logic. Sort of like me reacting to the old "Why doesn't East play Hermantown?" thing

Lee

[headsupsticksdown]

I wouldn't characterize Cloquet playing Hermantown very tight over the years or even remotely tight, and certainly not over the last ten years. They're 1-10-2 and have been defeated by five or more goals in five of those, included the last three. Them moving down to Class A only means there will be less teams pounding on them on a regular basis.

If you really want Class A to be nearly as meaningful as Class AA, there is one possible solution and one which used to make me throw up in my mouth--disallow opt ups. I realize by doing this, private schools will now dominate Class A and we remember the screams from the days when schools such as STA and Breck ran roughshod over their lesser Class A opponents.

Lee

Finally Thank you Lee a reasonable reply.

The Cloquet was more reference to teams I think it was like 2017-18, 2018-19 around those years when they still had Langenbrunner, Stoyanff, Rassmussen etc... I don't know if they have a group like that coming up again anytime soon and even that group kind of well self destructed at the high school level.

I dont ever intend or think Class A will be as meaningful to most as AA. That was never my argument or point. I was saying that if certain Class A size enrollment teams like Blake, AHA, Bemidji and even Cloquet in good cycle of kids they could add depth to the Class A field and contend for a Title where as in AA not gonna happen the way things are set up. I know AHA was power keg in the early 2000's but things are way different and the area they draw from is different.

Example is Holy Family this year was Class A they would make Class A deeper they wouldn't blow everyone out and they probably would not win the Class A title but they could at least contend where as in 2AA its gonna be a mighty mountain for them to just get to the Tourney.

I agree I hate the idea of enrollment cut off forced and we have seen when teams get good at Class A and win there is a call to move AA (Like STA, Gentry, Breck, and Hermantown) recently.

My point was it would be better overall for Class A if those teams that are not in the "Country Club" of AA go back to A and it would deepen the sections.

I just got annoyed when someone took what I said and turned it into Class A vs AA there is no comparison and I wasnt even arguing about A vs AA, and when they came back with the argument that no one coming down from AA to A would contend it was just such a oblivious and wrong statement I could not resist and blow that terrible take out of the water.

Again I am not campaigning for any changes or trying to compare A vs AA its not close I know this. But I do think there are schools right now in AA who have no chance to contend that could come to A make it better field not run roughshod over Class A teams and every once in awhile have group or team good enough to win the thing. Thats all....

Thank you again for your take Lee it was reasonable and made sense.

No problem, Class A. The class thing tends to bring out some strong reactions where emotions can at times overrule logic. Sort of like me reacting to the old "Why doesn't East play Hermantown?" thing

Lee

This conversation is interesting…. When talking A, then moving up to AA and weighing the pluses and minuses things become eerily similar to Hermantown. In fact, I’ve heard on several occasion that the old regime has been in the new regimes ear by saying, “Build a new rink. Move up to AA. Look what happened to Cloquet…” Obviously, there is more at play as the population, demographics and overall geographic lay of the land are much different, but it’s an interesting point about the grass always not being greener on the other side.

Don’t flame me. It’s just what I’ve heard.

[rainier2]

To me, the Class A or AA question is easy: Do you have relatively easy access to AA-sized talent pool or not?

Even more so than in the past, winning is all that matters. Any Class A-sized program with an easily accessible AA-sized talent pool is potentially a Class A juggernaut. The judgement of these programs is whether they've been able to leverage these pools or not. Hopkins has been great at basketball, so why not hockey? Winning. If Hopkins starts winning at hockey, then they'll be the next Rogers, or Andover, or program du jour.

The easiest solution for the A/AA debate is to not allow any team from a metro area into A. This is already done at a state level, where the TC metro, St Cloud, Duluth, Rochester, Mankato, and F-MH areas are not considered "rural" for various state programs. The vast majority of outstate teams don't have easy access to huge pools of talent; metro schools do. Start from here, then tweak from there.

[headsupsticksdown]

To me, the Class A or AA question is easy: Do you have relatively easy access to AA-sized talent pool or not?

Even more so than in the past, winning is all that matters. Any Class A-sized program with an easily accessible AA-sized talent pool is potentially a Class A juggernaut. The judgement of these programs is whether they've been able to leverage these pools or not. Hopkins has been great at basketball, so why not hockey? Winning. If Hopkins starts winning at hockey, then they'll be the next Rogers, or Andover, or program du jour.

The easiest solution for the A/AA debate is to not allow any team from a metro area into A. This is already done at a state level, where the TC metro, St Cloud, Duluth, Rochester, Mankato, and F-MH areas are not considered "rural" for various state programs. The vast majority of outstate teams don't have easy access to huge pools of talent; metro schools do. Start from here, then tweak from there.

Hopkins is a bad, bad example…. They’re literally 2-3 miles between Edina, SLP and Tonka. They’re like Proctor in the sense that any kid with high level talent is going to end up at Tonka or a private school.. I personally don’t see them being competitive anytime soon. Their youth numbers don’t seem to be growing either, but I don’t believe it’s due to lack of effort. They are just in a pocket surrounded by much larger communities.

[goldy313]

My argument for years has been access to year around ice. Schools that do should be AA. Schools that don’t are A. Why is Hermantown, with all their available year around ice put in the same class as Worthington? A school with local access to 4 months of ice?

Every school in Minnesota that plays football has basically the same access to a practice field, same with basketball. Why hockey is treated differently is astounding.

[BSUBeaver]

Every school in Minnesota that plays football has basically the same access to a practice field, same with basketball. Why hockey is treated differently is astounding.

Costs. A lot of programs cannot afford to run an ice plant year round. Also, a lot of these facilities are multipurpose (example: fairground buildings) and the fair boards can make more money taking the ice out after the hockey season and running dry floor events during the warm months.

[BlueLineSpecial]

Remind me again why there would be resistance to taking hockey to 3, 4, or 5 classes instead of having just A & AA?

[Joe2015]

Remind me again why there would be resistance to taking hockey to 3, 4, or 5 classes instead of having just A & AA?

Currently there are 145 boys hockey teams in MN. 4 or 5 classes seems like a bit much. Maybe 3 would work? That would mean about 48 teams per class, which means 6 team sections.

[elliott70]

Remind me again why there would be resistance to taking hockey to 3, 4, or 5 classes instead of having just A & AA?

See above/below thread

[ClassAGuy]

Not that I think we need 3 classes but you could steal from the idea from Football.

Have the Top 32 Teams for Class AAA

First Round of 32 and Sweet 16 at Big Neutral Sites

Elite 8 normal Thursday

Final 4 Friday

Championship Saturday

Next 48 Teams For Class AA

8 Geographic Sections (6 Teams per Section Top 2 seed get byes into Section Semifinals (4v5 & 3vs6 games in 1st round)

Final 8 1st Round of State on Wednesday

Final 4 Friday

Championship Saturday

Remaining 65 teams For Class A

8 Geographic Sections (8-9 team per Section)

First Round of State on Tuesday

Final 4 Friday

Championship Saturday

Would add Tuesday to extend the Tourney.

Issue would be TV for Friday
Would have to be like
9 AM & 11:30 AM For Class A

1:00 PM & 3:30 PM For Class AA

6:00 PM & 8:30 PM for Class AA

Saturday would be easy
Noon Class A
3:00 PM Class AA
7:00 PM Class AAA

With taking the Top 32 teams you could get all the "Country Club Teams" in one Batch and it would be outstanding take out the Geography part to eliminate the free Trips for Lakeville and Moorhead and it would be great matchup all the way through. Draw back the North may get shut out but I think we are getting closer to those days anyways.

Next 48 for AA would hopefully create more depth and better results and not so many blowouts as teams get down to the Final 4

Final 65 would hopefully open the door for smaller programs that Class A originally wanted to offer the State Tournament opportunity and experience to grow the game in those areas and programs.

I know this idea has flaws but just a thought....