Wisconsin Fire Shut Down

[JSR]

WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold. USA Hockey always recognized the Fire as Tier 1 (and so did the rest of the USA and Canada).

WAHA created the unclassified status to allow the teams to register in WI but not be allowed to qualify for the State and National USA Tournaments, yhus protecting the other Tier 1 teams in WI.

The fallout of this decision is that the Somerset rink will likely be in jeopardy as the Fire was a significant tenant who purchased ice from the arena which serviced the debt on the rink.

It's a shame, not just for the Fire players, but for the community in general.

The Fire are/were not that significant of a tenant. Somerset high school team and the Somerset youth organization are far larger and more significant tenants than the Fire at that rink. The Fire were a nice additional tenant. Also, the Fire's status as Unclassified had nothing to do with protecting the other Tier 1 teams in the state. THe Fire did not wish to do what was necessary to be labeled as Tier 1 under the bylaws that have been around long before the Fire existed, it is that plain and simple. The guidelines for becoming a Tier 1 team in the state are there for all to see and follow.... follow them and abide by the rules and you are fine, don't and you won't get aapproved. let's not twist this into something it was not.

[Quasar]

WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold. USA Hockey always recognized the Fire as Tier 1 (and so did the rest of the USA and Canada).

WAHA created the unclassified status to allow the teams to register in WI but not be allowed to qualify for the State and National USA Tournaments, yhus protecting the other Tier 1 teams in WI.

The fallout of this decision is that the Somerset rink will likely be in jeopardy as the Fire was a significant tenant who purchased ice from the arena which serviced the debt on the rink.

It's a shame, not just for the Fire players, but for the community in general.

Thanks. Saying USA Hockey recognized Fire as Tier I is confusing to me. If you can't play in Nationals... Were they coded Tier I on the official roster, and their qualifying path was blocked by the WAHA affiliate? Interesting.

We see the same thing here in that "have not" rinks often agree to host teams that target players from the "haves". If Somerset has been unable to build a youth hockey program to support its rink, why should they get players from other areas? Just a rhetorical question. There's no easy solution.

We have a rink that is always struggling. Finally I realized maybe we need it to go away and then we don't have to worry so much about protecting them. Similarly, a youth program has languished and asked for one concession after another. This year they did away with it and directed the kids to get on other teams. While I want to see hockey grow and thrive, at some point it is just too hard for some places.

This may help explain a little.

Minneapolis and Saint Paul are part of a larger geographic area which is called the greater Twin cities metro. it contains 11 Minnesota counties, and 2 Wisconsin counties. The area has a population of 3.5 million people. Many people in the two Wisconsin counties commute to the cities everyday. They are in essence dual citizens. My family is settled in both states. I think the "unclassified" and now, the outright denial of any classification to the Fire is because of collusion between the Minnesota, and Wisconsin hockey boards. For their own special reasons. Somerset is in St. Croix county. It is not some little burg in the sticks. It is part of the greater metro. New Richmond Wisconsin, Somerset Wisconsin and Stillwater Minnesota are connected. Somerset would have to turn away players if Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey had a reciprocity agreement like the two states. If WAHA and MNH would allow for teams with kids from both states , Hudson, New Richmond,Somerset,and quite possibly Baldwin would have a vibrant hockey community. Instead Minnesota hockey says a Minnesota kid can play in Wisconsin if he plays on a Tier 1 team because it's not offered in Minnesota. Wisconsin says no tier 1 teams unless they are majority Wisconsin players..
In my view a lot of well meaning hockey people in both states are making a basic mistake by not recognizing the geographic significance of the "Greater Twin Cities Metro Area" By shutting down the pioneer team trying to straddle the border we have just taken a giant step backwards.

[O-townClown]

And people that live in Southwest Minneapolis shop at 50th & France all the time. That doesn't mean their kids get to play hockey in Edina.

Q, if you think the relations between Minnesota Hockey and WAHA are unfriendly, how do you feel about USAH and Hockey Canada?

Aren't the poor children of Buffalo being held back and denied their rightful choice?

[Quasar]

WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold. USA Hockey always recognized the Fire as Tier 1 (and so did the rest of the USA and Canada).

WAHA created the unclassified status to allow the teams to register in WI but not be allowed to qualify for the State and National USA Tournaments, yhus protecting the other Tier 1 teams in WI.

The fallout of this decision is that the Somerset rink will likely be in jeopardy as the Fire was a significant tenant who purchased ice from the arena which serviced the debt on the rink.

It's a shame, not just for the Fire players, but for the community in general.

The Fire are/were not that significant of a tenant. Somerset high school team and the Somerset youth organization are far larger and more significant tenants than the Fire at that rink. The Fire were a nice additional tenant. Also, the Fire's status as Unclassified had nothing to do with protecting the other Tier 1 teams in the state. THe Fire did not wish to do what was necessary to be labeled as Tier 1 under the bylaws that have been around long before the Fire existed, it is that plain and simple. The guidelines for becoming a Tier 1 team in the state are there for all to see and follow.... follow them and abide by the rules and you are fine, don't and you won't get aapproved. let's not twist this into something it was not.

Let's just quit kidding around.

If Wisconsin let Minnesota kids play Tier 1 in the two counties of St. Croix and Pierce, They would be overwhelmed by Minnesota kids. This means that the Tier 1 scene would be drastically altered. I can understand the concern, But you can just get off the high horse about if they just followed the rules everything would be fine.

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

[O-townClown]

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

Did I miss something? Minnesota approved Tier I hockey? Whatever you know, the rest don't.

[Quasar]

And people that live in Southwest Minneapolis shop at 50th & France all the time. That doesn't mean their kids get to play hockey in Edina.

Q, if you think the relations between Minnesota Hockey and WAHA are unfriendly, how do you feel about USAH and Hockey Canada?

Aren't the poor children of Buffalo being held back and denied their rightful choice?

I used to hang out at 50th and France in my youth.. Being from North Minneapolis, Most of us only went there to pick on the Edina kids.

I must confess.. I don't know a thing about whats going on between USAH and Canada..All I know about Canada hockey is it's fun to watch, and the people I've met are really nice.

Again I know nothing about Buffalo other that they get a lot of Lake effect snow..

I do know something about Western Wisconsin..

[Quasar]

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

Did I miss something? Minnesota approved Tier I hockey? Whatever you know, the rest don't.

Will my friend...Will...

I suppose I better add ... If they don't someone will fill the void.

[MrBoDangles]

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

Did I miss something? Minnesota approved Tier I hockey? Whatever you know, the rest don't.

No, the Fie just shut down and Walser!!!!!!! is going to fund the Made's Attack(lesser teams) and their "DESIRE" to travel the globe......... They're going to have the Machine fund themselves

They only plan on doing this in the Summer when no teams from Minnesota are allowed to play high caliber teams from across North America.

It makes sense to me......

USA Hockey will run their name through the mud if they deny them..

[goaliewithfoggedglasses]

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

Did I miss something? Minnesota approved Tier I hockey? Whatever you know, the rest don't.

No, the Fie just shut down and Walser!!!!!!! is going to fund the Made's Attack(lesser teams) and their "DESIRE" to travel the globe......... They're going to have the Machine fund themselves

They only plan on doing this in the Summer when no teams from Minnesota are allowed to play high caliber teams from across North America.

It makes sense to me......

USA Hockey will run their name through the mud if they deny them..

Well it won't be this winter. MM just recently sold Edina 90 hours of ice the Fire had there. They must not have had any other plans for it.

[JSR]

WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold. USA Hockey always recognized the Fire as Tier 1 (and so did the rest of the USA and Canada).

WAHA created the unclassified status to allow the teams to register in WI but not be allowed to qualify for the State and National USA Tournaments, yhus protecting the other Tier 1 teams in WI.

The fallout of this decision is that the Somerset rink will likely be in jeopardy as the Fire was a significant tenant who purchased ice from the arena which serviced the debt on the rink.

It's a shame, not just for the Fire players, but for the community in general.

The Fire are/were not that significant of a tenant. Somerset high school team and the Somerset youth organization are far larger and more significant tenants than the Fire at that rink. The Fire were a nice additional tenant. Also, the Fire's status as Unclassified had nothing to do with protecting the other Tier 1 teams in the state. THe Fire did not wish to do what was necessary to be labeled as Tier 1 under the bylaws that have been around long before the Fire existed, it is that plain and simple. The guidelines for becoming a Tier 1 team in the state are there for all to see and follow.... follow them and abide by the rules and you are fine, don't and you won't get aapproved. let's not twist this into something it was not.

Let's just quit kidding around.

If Wisconsin let Minnesota kids play Tier 1 in the two counties of St. Croix and Pierce, They would be overwhelmed by Minnesota kids. This means that the Tier 1 scene would be drastically altered. I can understand the concern, But you can just get off the high horse about if they just followed the rules everything would be fine.

It wont matter anyway because by next year all the super talent in Wisconsin that lives in the border towns will be playing Tier 1 in Minnesota.

I am not kidding around, nor am I on a high horse. WI has had Tier 1 for as long as it's been around. There are established rules for it. You folks who want Tier 1 in MN are right to want it, but you are not right to impose your petty arguments on us in WI and then say we are the ones in the wrong. No one has ever been denied membership in WAHA that has followed the rules to my kowledge. That is not a high horse viewpoint, it is just fact. A fact some across the border don't like but it is what it is. WI doesn't have it's rules to inconvenience MN kids and their families, trust me.

[Quasar]

Did I miss something? Minnesota approved Tier I hockey? Whatever you know, the rest don't.

No, the Fie just shut down and Walser!!!!!!! is going to fund the Made's Attack(lesser teams) and their "DESIRE" to travel the globe......... They're going to have the Machine fund themselves

They only plan on doing this in the Summer when no teams from Minnesota are allowed to play high caliber teams from across North America.

It makes sense to me......

USA Hockey will run their name through the mud if they deny them..

Well it won't be this winter. MM just recently sold Edina 90 hours of ice the Fire had there. They must not have had any other plans for it.

Thanks for that...This winter is too soon. Next winter maybe. There are some that would like to move this winter, but not enough time... Could be somebody in the weeds, but I doubt it. Any way dosn't look like it will be the Made.

[the_juiceman]

WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold. USA Hockey always recognized the Fire as Tier 1 (and so did the rest of the USA and Canada).

WAHA created the unclassified status to allow the teams to register in WI but not be allowed to qualify for the State and National USA Tournaments, yhus protecting the other Tier 1 teams in WI.

The fallout of this decision is that the Somerset rink will likely be in jeopardy as the Fire was a significant tenant who purchased ice from the arena which serviced the debt on the rink.

It's a shame, not just for the Fire players, but for the community in general.

Thanks. Saying USA Hockey recognized Fire as Tier I is confusing to me. If you can't play in Nationals... Were they coded Tier I on the official roster, and their qualifying path was blocked by the WAHA affiliate? Interesting.

We see the same thing here in that "have not" rinks often agree to host teams that target players from the "haves". If Somerset has been unable to build a youth hockey program to support its rink, why should they get players from other areas? Just a rhetorical question. There's no easy solution.

We have a rink that is always struggling. Finally I realized maybe we need it to go away and then we don't have to worry so much about protecting them. Similarly, a youth program has languished and asked for one concession after another. This year they did away with it and directed the kids to get on other teams. While I want to see hockey grow and thrive, at some point it is just too hard for some places.

This may help explain a little.

Minneapolis and Saint Paul are part of a larger geographic area which is called the greater Twin cities metro. it contains 11 Minnesota counties, and 2 Wisconsin counties. The area has a population of 3.5 million people. Many people in the two Wisconsin counties commute to the cities everyday. They are in essence dual citizens. My family is settled in both states. I think the "unclassified" and now, the outright denial of any classification to the Fire is because of collusion between the Minnesota, and Wisconsin hockey boards. For their own special reasons. Somerset is in St. Croix county. It is not some little burg in the sticks. It is part of the greater metro. New Richmond Wisconsin, Somerset Wisconsin and Stillwater Minnesota are connected. Somerset would have to turn away players if Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey had a reciprocity agreement like the two states. If WAHA and MNH would allow for teams with kids from both states , Hudson, New Richmond,Somerset,and quite possibly Baldwin would have a vibrant hockey community. Instead Minnesota hockey says a Minnesota kid can play in Wisconsin if he plays on a Tier 1 team because it's not offered in Minnesota. Wisconsin says no tier 1 teams unless they are majority Wisconsin players..
In my view a lot of well meaning hockey people in both states are making a basic mistake by not recognizing the geographic significance of the "Greater Twin Cities Metro Area" By shutting down the pioneer team trying to straddle the border we have just taken a giant step backwards.

90% of the people in this area consider the Twin Cities a seven county area--in your rational, St. cloud & Cambridge are part of the Twin Cities--they are not. Just as the Wisconsin counties are not. Maybe, once again it's that mystery 10% you're always speaking about in some shape or form. It seems everything is a big conspiracy when things happen that you don't agree with. It's always about collusion, secrets, mystery & drama with you. It's only hockey--Minnesota has been at it for years--and it's produced a great amount of talent in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. If it ani't broke don't fix it.

[O-townClown]

Q, it is very complicated for an American resident to play in Canada and vice versa.

Our District allows Tournament rosters. Does anyone know the answer to this question? Can I form at team to play in a tournament, roster Minnesota kids, and take to play in Detroit? Our affiliate would approve the roster.

Remember, two kids from Lakeville played Tier I last year and lost in the final of the National Championship. It isn't like Minnesota Hockey can stop players from playing Tier I.

[Task Force 34]

JSR - I'd be interested to know what criteria the Fire did not meet to be granted Tier 1 status.

The explanation given to the Fire for denial was that they already had 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not meet their own definition of Tier 1 per the WAHA guidebook. There was not one area that the Fire did not meet the Tier 1 test. If there is, I would love to know what it was.

[Quasar]

Thanks. Saying USA Hockey recognized Fire as Tier I is confusing to me. If you can't play in Nationals... Were they coded Tier I on the official roster, and their qualifying path was blocked by the WAHA affiliate? Interesting.

We see the same thing here in that "have not" rinks often agree to host teams that target players from the "haves". If Somerset has been unable to build a youth hockey program to support its rink, why should they get players from other areas? Just a rhetorical question. There's no easy solution.

We have a rink that is always struggling. Finally I realized maybe we need it to go away and then we don't have to worry so much about protecting them. Similarly, a youth program has languished and asked for one concession after another. This year they did away with it and directed the kids to get on other teams. While I want to see hockey grow and thrive, at some point it is just too hard for some places.

This may help explain a little.

Minneapolis and Saint Paul are part of a larger geographic area which is called the greater Twin cities metro. it contains 11 Minnesota counties, and 2 Wisconsin counties. The area has a population of 3.5 million people. Many people in the two Wisconsin counties commute to the cities everyday. They are in essence dual citizens. My family is settled in both states. I think the "unclassified" and now, the outright denial of any classification to the Fire is because of collusion between the Minnesota, and Wisconsin hockey boards. For their own special reasons. Somerset is in St. Croix county. It is not some little burg in the sticks. It is part of the greater metro. New Richmond Wisconsin, Somerset Wisconsin and Stillwater Minnesota are connected. Somerset would have to turn away players if Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey had a reciprocity agreement like the two states. If WAHA and MNH would allow for teams with kids from both states , Hudson, New Richmond,Somerset,and quite possibly Baldwin would have a vibrant hockey community. Instead Minnesota hockey says a Minnesota kid can play in Wisconsin if he plays on a Tier 1 team because it's not offered in Minnesota. Wisconsin says no tier 1 teams unless they are majority Wisconsin players..
In my view a lot of well meaning hockey people in both states are making a basic mistake by not recognizing the geographic significance of the "Greater Twin Cities Metro Area" By shutting down the pioneer team trying to straddle the border we have just taken a giant step backwards.

90% of the people in this area consider the Twin Cities a seven county area--in your rational, St. cloud & Cambridge are part of the Twin Cities--they are not. Just as the Wisconsin counties are not. Maybe, once again it's that mystery 10% you're always speaking about in some shape or form. It seems everything is a big conspiracy when things happen that you don't agree with. It's always about collusion, secrets, mystery & drama with you. It's only hockey--Minnesota has been at it for years--and it's produced a great amount of talent in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. If it ani't broke don't fix it.

The greater Metro is an official designation.. Look it up. There's even a map. I didn't make it up.

Your take on mystery, collusion, drama etc. Is just a way to discount the argument. This is a worn out tactic used by people with a weak argument. You are welcome to have your opinion. But I think you are using a straw man to distract from the main argument.
If you think everything is fine Ok.. No need to belittle me because I have a different point of view. But if you need to tha'ts ok I'm a big boy
I can handle it.

[the_juiceman]

This may help explain a little.

Minneapolis and Saint Paul are part of a larger geographic area which is called the greater Twin cities metro. it contains 11 Minnesota counties, and 2 Wisconsin counties. The area has a population of 3.5 million people. Many people in the two Wisconsin counties commute to the cities everyday. They are in essence dual citizens. My family is settled in both states. I think the "unclassified" and now, the outright denial of any classification to the Fire is because of collusion between the Minnesota, and Wisconsin hockey boards. For their own special reasons. Somerset is in St. Croix county. It is not some little burg in the sticks. It is part of the greater metro. New Richmond Wisconsin, Somerset Wisconsin and Stillwater Minnesota are connected. Somerset would have to turn away players if Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey had a reciprocity agreement like the two states. If WAHA and MNH would allow for teams with kids from both states , Hudson, New Richmond,Somerset,and quite possibly Baldwin would have a vibrant hockey community. Instead Minnesota hockey says a Minnesota kid can play in Wisconsin if he plays on a Tier 1 team because it's not offered in Minnesota. Wisconsin says no tier 1 teams unless they are majority Wisconsin players..
In my view a lot of well meaning hockey people in both states are making a basic mistake by not recognizing the geographic significance of the "Greater Twin Cities Metro Area" By shutting down the pioneer team trying to straddle the border we have just taken a giant step backwards.

90% of the people in this area consider the Twin Cities a seven county area--in your rational, St. cloud & Cambridge are part of the Twin Cities--they are not. Just as the Wisconsin counties are not. Maybe, once again it's that mystery 10% you're always speaking about in some shape or form. It seems everything is a big conspiracy when things happen that you don't agree with. It's always about collusion, secrets, mystery & drama with you. It's only hockey--Minnesota has been at it for years--and it's produced a great amount of talent in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. If it ani't broke don't fix it.

The greater Metro is an official designation.. Look it up. There's even a map. I didn't make it up.

Your take on mystery, collusion, drama etc. Is just a way to discount the argument. This is a worn out tactic used by people with a weak argument. You are welcome to have your opinion. But I think you are using a straw man to distract from the main argument.
If you think everything is fine Ok.. No need to belittle me because I have a different point of view. But if you need to tha'ts ok I'm a big boy
I can handle it.

The map you refer to is for the Census bureau. It also shows a map for Twin Cities proper, which only includes the 7 counties.
90% are happy--as pointed out by another poster. I would'nt call that a weak argument. Keep stiring the pot--you do it well.

[Quasar]

Q, it is very complicated for an American resident to play in Canada and vice versa.

Our District allows Tournament rosters. Does anyone know the answer to this question? Can I form at team to play in a tournament, roster Minnesota kids, and take to play in Detroit? Our affiliate would approve the roster.

Remember, two kids from Lakeville played Tier I last year and lost in the final of the National Championship. It isn't like Minnesota Hockey can stop players from playing Tier I.

Hi OT,

I think we are talking about next door in the same county let alone in a different country. But I understand what your saying.

As far as I know the only tournaments our districts play are within the state. Could be wrong..Any body know?

Kids can play outside Minnesota it's just hard to do because The system here makes it difficult.

Remember there is nothing like tier 1 in Minnesota.

[Quasar]

90% of the people in this area consider the Twin Cities a seven county area--in your rational, St. cloud & Cambridge are part of the Twin Cities--they are not. Just as the Wisconsin counties are not. Maybe, once again it's that mystery 10% you're always speaking about in some shape or form. It seems everything is a big conspiracy when things happen that you don't agree with. It's always about collusion, secrets, mystery & drama with you. It's only hockey--Minnesota has been at it for years--and it's produced a great amount of talent in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. If it ani't broke don't fix it.

The greater Metro is an official designation.. Look it up. There's even a map. I didn't make it up.

Your take on mystery, collusion, drama etc. Is just a way to discount the argument. This is a worn out tactic used by people with a weak argument. You are welcome to have your opinion. But I think you are using a straw man to distract from the main argument.
If you think everything is fine Ok.. No need to belittle me because I have a different point of view. But if you need to tha'ts ok I'm a big boy
I can handle it.

The map you refer to is for the Census bureau. It also shows a map for Twin Cities proper, which only includes the 7 counties.
90% are happy--as pointed out by another poster. I would'nt call that a weak argument. Keep stiring the pot--you do it well.

Thank you!!

[Quasar]

For what it's worth.. My wife calls me a "Heat Merchant"

[Deep Breath]

Can I form at team to play in a tournament, roster Minnesota kids, and take to play in Detroit? Our affiliate would approve the roster.


Have to have an affiliate (such as Minnesota or Wisconsin) sign off on the roster, before it could play in a USA sanctioned event; which will not happen.

If it was that simple, the Fire teams could simply call themselves the Metro Fire and go to the Nike Bauer or the Silver Stick. An afilliate member has to sign off.

[Quasar]

JSR - I'd be interested to know what criteria the Fire did not meet to be granted Tier 1 status.

The explanation given to the Fire for denial was that they already had 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not meet their own definition of Tier 1 per the WAHA guidebook. There was not one area that the Fire did not meet the Tier 1 test. If there is, I would love to know what it was.

I would kinda like to know too..

[MrBoDangles]

Can I form at team to play in a tournament, roster Minnesota kids, and take to play in Detroit? Our affiliate would approve the roster.


Have to have an affiliate (such as Minnesota or Wisconsin) sign off on the roster, before it could play in a USA sanctioned event; which will not happen.

If it was that simple, the Fire teams could simply call themselves the Metro Fire and go to the Nike Bauer or the Silver Stick. An afilliate member has to sign off.

Bernie is forming a team. He'll try to enter his team in these tournaments. He might be denied. Just like the stupid D6 decision, a denied decision will be called a stupid decision for the fact that he's not BEING ALLOWED to run his business the way he wants to. Instead of being big news in just the state of Hockey, it will be national news at the grandest level..... Kids being held back again by our totalitarian governing body. USA and MN Hockey will be exposed in that they don't allow the same opportunities for MN kids

It's really very simple....... Denied...... Hey sir, do I have a news story for you!

[O-townClown]

Have to have an affiliate (such as Minnesota or Wisconsin) sign off on the roster, before it could play in a USA sanctioned event; which will not happen.

If it was that simple, the Fire teams could simply call themselves the Metro Fire and go to the Nike Bauer or the Silver Stick. An afilliate member has to sign off.

Deep, the Southeastern District has a designation on CyberSport called "Tournament" with the intent of allowing players to come together, in season, on a limited basis to enter a tournament. Florida, one-fourth of the SE District, has rules that spell out what will and won't be allowed.

The first step is to have a player obtain permission from their program to leave for that weekend. If the Forest Lake Bantam A coach doesn't care, is this a way to let his star player pursue - on a limited basis - this level of play that his community-based program allegedly doesn't.

I am talking about having the roster signed off by the Affiliate Registrar within the Southeast District.

Of course, the registrar won't sign off if these rosters don't consist of a meaningful number of players from within the host affiliate.

I've seen a group of kids from West Palm Beach play in a tournament with some kids from Detroit, and even a Canadian.

I don't know the MAHA rulebook. They may have a rule that prohibits players from being rostered on multiple teams or with multiple programs at once.

Q's on a mission here, but it doesn't seem like he's started by trying to work within the existing rules. We see the same thing down here. Rules will permit certain things, but people don't even try to go that path before trying to circumvent. I'll refer to the MAHA website to see if I can find rules regarding this.

[Quasar]

WI has a rule that says that you either have 90% of the kids from WI on your team or you play 90% of the games in WI. Without the 90% rule you are not a sanctioned WAHA affiliate.

The other thing about this too is that people are so fed up with the political crap and status quo right now that they would be willing to put together Tier 2 teams to go play games with just to escape the association model currently in place, it does not have to be about the hyper competitive Tier 1 and HPC type teams.

Thanks for the rule. I thought It was something like that..

As for Tier II .. It's in full swing right now. It's called AAA

I still want to see an alternative in the winter for those that want it

[the_juiceman]

JSR - I'd be interested to know what criteria the Fire did not meet to be granted Tier 1 status.

The explanation given to the Fire for denial was that they already had 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not meet their own definition of Tier 1 per the WAHA guidebook. There was not one area that the Fire did not meet the Tier 1 test. If there is, I would love to know what it was.

I would kinda like to know too..

WI has a rule that says that you either have 90% of the kids from WI on your team or you play 90% of the games in WI. Without the 90% rule you are not a sanctioned WAHA affiliate.



For what it is worth, Juiceman, if 10% of the kids in MN hockey are not happy that is a whole lot of kids with a corresponding whole lot of parents and money too. I don't know what line of work you are in but if you had (following yours and MN Hockey's numbers here to use as the basis for the math) about 5000 potential customers who were begging for something better and different to come along I bet you would at least go give them a look. You could put together a team with 20 kids on it, get it sanctioned by somebody who does not have a 90% rule and be off and running. That is what is going to happen and if MN Hockey thinks that USA Hockey is going to save them by denying them sanctioned status MN Hockey is wrong. I do not have any insider knowledge or connections (hence the name) but not much is required to do basic math and to follow basic business ideas. The other thing about this too is that people are so fed up with the political crap and status quo right now that they would be willing to put together Tier 2 teams to go play games with just to escape the association model currently in place, it does not have to be about the hyper competitive Tier 1 and HPC type teams.

NPC--point taken. You make a solid argument. Let me ask you this--of that estimated 10%--how many would actually participate? in otherwords, how many just like to piss & moan, but when push comes to shove--they were just full of hot air. I know of a few in my association that are just that. Come crunch time, they do nothing. they complain just to complain. I'd be very interested if this came to be, just how many would indeed participate.