Future improvement or rule change to "Better" HS H

paulsonj72 · Post by **paulsonj72** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:30 pm

tonkafan77 wrote:Why does Edina hop out of the Lake conference area for sections then? Why can't Tonka or Benilde just hop over to a different area after regular season?

Because Edina is assigned to that section by the MSHSL. They don'y just jump out of the lake for section play. In all seriousness there is NEVER going to be a method to satisfy everybody.

tonkafan77 · Post by **tonkafan77** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:31 pm

I understand that, I just wish that more teams from the top 10 could make it into the tournament.

mulefarm · Post by **mulefarm** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:34 pm

tonkafan77 wrote:Why does Edina hop out of the Lake conference area for sections then? Why can't Tonka or Benilde just hop over to a different area after regular season?

Please don't whine about 6AA teams. Great teams have been knocked out in sections forever. Things seem to go in cycles and the lake and 6AA happen to have the most depht at this time. Also some of the other metro communities have opened new high schools, instead of having one large school like the lake schools, their talent is distributed among two schools.

PuckU126 · Post by **PuckU126** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:42 pm

Teak wrote:Cheerleaders in bikinis??

Dude, some cheerleaders are nasty...

Weekend_Warrior · Post by **Weekend_Warrior** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:48 pm

I'd take an ugly cheerleader over a really fat one any day.

northwoods oldtimer · Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:50 pm

tonkafan77 wrote:Ha what team wouldn't?
Benilde and Wayzata both had outstanding seasons and in my opinion, deserved to be in the state tournament. I understand it'd be a huge hassle to redo the sections and all but don't we want the tourney to be filled with teams from the top 10? There shouldn't be any games where you see the brackets and know for sure the outcome of that game.

Well tonkafan77 I wanted Maple Grove and Grand Rapids they both "deserved" to be in the tournament too. Guess what they just happened to get knocked off in some tough sections.

scarlethockey33 · Post by **scarlethockey33** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:59 pm

Just happens to be that the 6AA has a ton of talent in the past couple of years. I swear I make this argument every year, "It's the MINNESOTA STATE Hockey Tournament."

I don't know about you, but having the whole state represented through the sections is a great thing for high school and for the state of hockey, and regardless it ends up to be a great tournament in terms of competition. If the tournament had all metro teams, the feel wouldn't be nearly authentic or tradition as it is now, and not to mention I wouldn't have any team to cheer for because I always cheer against the metro.

Plus just having the top 10 teams in the tournament (or top 16) there are hardly any underdogs especially with this year the parity in teams between maybe the top 10 teams is very little. As the saying goes, "there's nothing better than a good underdog story." Certainly there would be no real large underdogs in any of the top teams if they were to be matched up.

Hey, I wanna see a great state tournament, but take away the sections and just having the top teams in the state will still have some drawbacks to what the state tournament means to WHOLE state of Minnesota.

Personally one change I would make, if you're going to seed the top 4, seed the rest. I want all 8 teams seeded, might as well finish it up.

love2skate · Post by **love2skate** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:00 am

do the tourney like the NCAA basketball. 8 section winners. and 8 "at large" teams. this would ensure having teams like Duluth East, Wayzata, Edina, BSM, Tonka, Hill ect. in the tournament. 16 team tournament.

The Best in the Bizz3 · Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:22 am

The sections are argued about every year. The truth is, no matter how fair it is, there is going to be 2-3 good teams in each section (not including 1aa), geography comes into a bit. But does it really have to? driving 40 miles for a section game does not seem bad at all. Driving across the state is definitely over doing it. Here is my take on something they could do.

Section 1AA

Apple Valley
Lakeville South
Lakeville North
Burnsville
Rochester's

(adding Burnsville and Apple Valley would add some competition, Lakeville South should be getting better, maybe one of the Rochester's will bounce back?)

Section 2AA

Jefferson
Edina
Holy Angels
Chanhassen

(There is no clear cut favorite next year, all teams lose a lot)

Section 3AA

Eden Prairie
Eagan
Cretin Durham Hall

(EP may be down, Eagan will be good, this section will be more balanced than last year. 2 really good semi's possibly)

Section 4AA

Hill-Murray
White Bear Lake
Stillwater
Roseville

(as we now know, this isn't Hill's section. It could happen again.)

Section 5AA

Maple Grove
Blaine
Centennial

(this section is going to be very competitive and adding another powerhouse wouldn't be a great idea.)

Section 6AA

Minnetonka
Wayzata
BSM

(taking a team out makes it more reasonable, but there is only so much you can do. It will still be very fun to watch)

Section 7AA

Duluth East
Grand Rapids
Elk River

(The rise of GR this year sure made DE play, this won't be a cake walk anymore, ER should improve and make this a good battle)

Section 8AA

Moorhead
Roseau
Bemidji

(will still be competitive)

This is just an opinion. There is only so much one can do to make these sections realistic. Geographically speaking, these make sense. Sections are a time of gut wrenching hockey. You need to play your best. No team should be allowed to make it to the X easily. The semi's and finals should be demanding the most out of your team. All 8 AA sections now have 2-3 good teams that won't allow an undeserving team to the X (pending an upset)

2012 State Tournament field could look something like this;

1AA: Burnsville, Apple Valley

2AA: Edina, Jefferson, Holy Angels

3AA: Eden Prairie, Eagan, C-DH

4AA: HM, WBL

5AA: MG, Blaine, Centennial

6AA: Tonka, Wayzata, BSM

7AA: DE, ER, GR

8AA: Roseau, Moorhead, Bemidji

You could have around 7 top 10 teams playing at state next year rather than 4 this year

Thoughts?
4aa could use more depth but not sure how it will work

PuckU126 · Post by **PuckU126** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:30 am

The Best in the Bizz3 wrote:Thoughts?

No St. Thomas.

Week or two ago the AD and head of the school announced their hockey program was not going to opt up starting next year.

Unless I missed something in the past week...?

The Best in the Bizz3 · Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:36 am

PuckU126 wrote:
The Best in the Bizz3 wrote:Thoughts?
No St. Thomas.

Week or two ago the AD and head of the school announced their hockey program was not going to opt up starting next year.

Unless I missed something in the past week...?

fixed

clutterbuck22 · Post by **clutterbuck22** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:04 am

Rossbury21 wrote:No ties, let's go big or go home, NCAA should do it as well.

CCHA has a Shootout and has no ties in the regular season. If they get rid of ties in HS hockey, they should play just a 5 minute OT and do a best of three shootout or something like that if it is still tied.

zamboni14 · Post by **zamboni14** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:19 am

tonkafan77 wrote:Why does Edina hop out of the Lake conference area for sections then? Why can't Tonka or Benilde just hop over to a different area after regular season?

ummmm... I waited for YEARS to not have to go though Edina to get to state, I don't want to be BACK with them. Move someone else

paulsonj72 · Post by **paulsonj72** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:25 am

clutterbuck22 wrote:
Rossbury21 wrote:No ties, let's go big or go home, NCAA should do it as well.
CCHA has a Shootout and has no ties in the regular season. If they get rid of ties in HS hockey, they should play just a 5 minute OT and do a best of three shootout or something like that if it is still tied.

Shootouts in the CCha regular season are OFFICIALLY recorded as ties for NCAA statistical purposes. So when (for example) you see Miami(example) at 27-7-7(last years record entering NCAA) that lat number in number of league shootouts(not shootout losses) That a tie is the official result of the game is codified in the NCAA Hockey rule book

2good4u · Post by **2good4u** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:34 am

i feel the rules are fine as they are now, stop trying to be like USA hockey rules, WE ARE MINNESOTA HOCKEY stop listening to USA hockey and it's "skill development" b.s. oh ya this is high school hockey get rid of the second linesman during the state tourney

here's a rule if a coach or a program gets caught recruiting they should be fired on the spot, that would change things wouldnt it?

paulsonj72 · Post by **paulsonj72** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:39 am

2good4u wrote:i feel the rules are fine as they are now, stop trying to be like USA hockey rules, WE ARE MINNESOTA HOCKEY stop listening to USA hockey and it's "skill development" b.s. oh ay this is high school hockey get rid of the second linesman during the state tourney

here's a rule if a coach or a program gets caught recruiting they should be fired on the spot, that would change things wouldnt it?

High School hockey follows National Federation rules not USA Hockey rules and the 4 man (2R 2L) in the recommended officiating system

paulsonj72 · Post by **paulsonj72** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:40 am

2good4u wrote:i feel the rules are fine as they are now, stop trying to be like USA hockey rules, WE ARE MINNESOTA HOCKEY stop listening to USA hockey and it's "skill development" b.s. oh ya this is high school hockey get rid of the second linesman during the state tourney

here's a rule if a coach or a program gets caught recruiting they should be fired on the spot, that would change things wouldnt it?

2good4u · Post by **2good4u** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:46 am

paulsonj72 wrote:
2good4u wrote:i feel the rules are fine as they are now, stop trying to be like USA hockey rules, WE ARE MINNESOTA HOCKEY stop listening to USA hockey and it's "skill development" b.s. oh ay this is high school hockey get rid of the second linesman during the state tourney

here's a rule if a coach or a program gets caught recruiting they should be fired on the spot, that would change things wouldnt it?
High School hockey follows National Federation rules not USA Hockey rules and the 4 man (2R 2L) in the recommended officiating system

sorry its still a waste of space to have 4 officials on the ice and it proved a few times during the tourney that they were getting in the way

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:43 am

DL44 wrote:
warriors41 wrote:
bubblehockey27 wrote:Get rid of being able to change off an ice. Seems to me that whenever these kids get into trouble they just send it. Enforcing them to stay on the ice and not be able to get fresh legs out there would change that.
I'd like the icing rules to look more like the college icing rules. If a player from the team that sends it down is gonna be the first to get there than wave it off.
I don't like either point here. First off, Icing is only waved off in the NHL not college, unless that rule has been changed. Second, why are trying to change the rules of the game to always help offense. I like offense as much as anybody but I like the fact that you can ice the puck and get fresh players on the ice. Plus a lot of goals are scored from offensive zone faceoffs.

I also like the race to the hash marks to negate an icing. make the defensive team work also if they place the no line change after an ice.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:47 am

mulefarm wrote:
tonkafan77 wrote:Why does Edina hop out of the Lake conference area for sections then? Why can't Tonka or Benilde just hop over to a different area after regular season?
Please don't whine about 6AA teams. Great teams have been knocked out in sections forever. Things seem to go in cycles and the lake and 6AA happen to have the most depht at this time. Also some of the other metro communities have opened new high schools, instead of having one large school like the lake schools, their talent is distributed among two schools.

Bravo well stated. Population growth has been huge in the west metro the past 20 yrs but hasnt changed high additions where as woodbury gets a little growth and wella new school. killed that program.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:52 am

Is it really the best teams that make state or the teams playing thier best at the right time?? No team or section should get a Free pass because they are strong at this particulaur time. They are playing vs thier peers in their neck of the woods. Moving STA up wouldnt change much as they play AA teams all season. Making a team thats wins Class A 2x's in row or in 3yrs might be something to look at.

HockeyMN1 · Post by **HockeyMN1** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:22 pm

2good4u wrote:
paulsonj72 wrote:
2good4u wrote:i feel the rules are fine as they are now, stop trying to be like USA hockey rules, WE ARE MINNESOTA HOCKEY stop listening to USA hockey and it's "skill development" b.s. oh ay this is high school hockey get rid of the second linesman during the state tourney

here's a rule if a coach or a program gets caught recruiting they should be fired on the spot, that would change things wouldnt it?
High School hockey follows National Federation rules not USA Hockey rules and the 4 man (2R 2L) in the recommended officiating system
sorry its still a waste of space to have 4 officials on the ice and it proved a few times during the tourney that they were getting in the way

Yeah they got in the way a lot, and they contradicted themselves on what ended up being a horrible offsides call in OT. One linesman waved it off and one signaled offsides. Nobody blew the whistle but everyone stopped except Rau who put it in but obviously to no avail. Three refs can handle it, four is unnecessary.

The X · Post by **The X** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:35 pm

tonkafan77 wrote:If they redo the sections so that the 8 teams in the tournament truly are the 8 best teams in state, then we wouldn't have to worry about any blow-outs in the tournament. The state tournament should be the cream of the crop..

This will never be possible because of upsets. Example: WBL goes instead of HM

sllek · Post by **sllek** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:32 pm

I agree that the "race to teh hash marks" would be a nice change. I don't think you'll ever see the "no line change after an icing" in high school because of the fear of injury. In some of the mismatch games, kids could be on the ice for an extended time, which could increase the chances of a player being injured. Not sure how valid that is, but it has been brought as an argument against the rule.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:02 pm

Get rid of the individual preplanned goal celebration, it's getting ridiculous and it's even a penalty in the NFL now. I'm all for emotion but when the goal scorer skates away from his team and pretends to shoot a bazooka? Throw him in the box.