O-town, just because I don't necessarily agree with you based on my experience doesn't mean I'm rigid in my thinking. It just means that I might have a different opinion and I tried to support that with some experiences. I could say the same thing of your thinking. I didn't say your idea was bad, I just don't think it would have much support in the EHA, I could be wrong since I haven't asked them. When my son was a squirt there were 4 B teams each year. We were in a D6 squirt league with the 1 of the other Edina teams. The other 2 were in a different league, i.e. American, National. We were not scheduled against all the Edina teams but we set up scrimmages with the other teams. I was happy with our time in squirts, in fact 2nd yr. squirts was the best year in terms of fun, imo. You are right I don't want to play in Valley @ 6p during the week, but I also don't care for 10 league EvE.
So if I have to choose, I'll play Valley @ 6p. Sorry, it's just a differrent opinion. Back when you played maybe there were 200 squirts every year, as far as I know 200 squirts now, 6 B teams, is a bubble. I 'll bet the average is more like 4 teams. Look at the PW's and Bantams, there are 4 B at each level and there are 4 and 3 C teams. From my experience this is the norm as far as number go for teams.
Edina's Squirt Bs in District 6 league action
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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greybeard58
- Posts: 2567
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
OTC
If any team wishes to play in a USA Hockey sanctioned tournament or against USA Hockey registered teams then they must register with USA Hockey. This is a USA Hockey rule not a District 6 rule.
I think that a year or 2 back a coach chose not to register a team and played in a sanctioned tournament in another state where he had friends and the check in was waived, rumor has it the coach was suspended by his home association and I am not sure what happened to the tournament host.
If any team wishes to play in a USA Hockey sanctioned tournament or against USA Hockey registered teams then they must register with USA Hockey. This is a USA Hockey rule not a District 6 rule.
I think that a year or 2 back a coach chose not to register a team and played in a sanctioned tournament in another state where he had friends and the check in was waived, rumor has it the coach was suspended by his home association and I am not sure what happened to the tournament host.
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O-townClown
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- Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town
Boni
Sorry if it came out wrong, but part about rigid in your thinking was because you seem to have concluded this cannot be sold internally. The D6 Squirt B tournament this week looks like a blast for the teams that advance out of the 8 pools, mainly because it will force a bunch of competitive games.zboni99 wrote:O-town, just because I don't necessarily agree with you based on my experience doesn't mean I'm rigid in my thinking. It just means that I might have a different opinion and I tried to support that with some experiences. I could say the same thing of your thinking. I didn't say your idea was bad, I just don't think it would have much support in the EHA, I could be wrong since I haven't asked them. When my son was a squirt there were 4 B teams each year. We were in a D6 squirt league with the 1 of the other Edina teams. The other 2 were in a different league, i.e. American, National. We were not scheduled against all the Edina teams but we set up scrimmages with the other teams. I was happy with our time in squirts, in fact 2nd yr. squirts was the best year in terms of fun, imo. You are right I don't want to play in Valley @ 6p during the week, but I also don't care for 10 league EvE.
So if I have to choose, I'll play Valley @ 6p. Sorry, it's just a differrent opinion. Back when you played maybe there were 200 squirts every year, as far as I know 200 squirts now, 6 B teams, is a bubble. I 'll bet the average is more like 4 teams. Look at the PW's and Bantams, there are 4 B at each level and there are 4 and 3 C teams. From my experience this is the norm as far as number go for teams.
Your experience is that when D6 was unable to provide games between Edina teams the coach/managers scheduled them on their own. That did not happen this year. If there were games there certainly weren't many. One friend in support of these ideas also says that there are some parents that don't understand the difference between a 10-1 win over hapless Richfield and a 4-2 loss to a very good Eden Prairie Turquoise squad. They think it means the team had it going one night and was off their game the other.
How many reminders do Edina parents need that the community has one of - if not the - strongest youth hockey programs?
When you cite the numbers of B teams at different levels, it is normal for them to decline as kids age. Some kids are lost. With the overemphasis on winning, large rosters, and poor utilization of goaltending resources is it any wonder?
Someone above mentions a Squirt Choice league and there are rumblings about a 3rd pad at Made. With the lack of a second A team in Edina I think I'd at least give my son the option of leaving one of the strongest associations in the nation merely because they couldn't find a way to avoid lots of non-competitive games for almost 100 players. There's nothing wrong with winning, but I don't see anything wrong with competition either.
If I moved to Edina for some reason in the next few years I would hope to find a better option than Squirt B hockey as it looks today. Edina's teams rarely lose games and it is even rarer that they play each other.
The good news is that your son had a very enjoyable season as a Squirt.
Be kind. Rewind.
Here's my point. The current squirt numbers are large for Edina. I know numbers get smaller as kids get older. From my experience, the average number of SQB teams is 4. This current bunch of squirts is good and maybe their competition is a little down. how many teams does Jefferson have? They couldn't even muster a BB1 team this year. I'll bet at the beginning of the year the 1st yr. squirt parents were not talking about how nice it would be to have an in-house league. It's too bad they are having such a competition problem. Maybe the squirts should setup an agreement with Wayzata. I'll bet they have a similar problem in D3. As for combining B and C and playing then you probably have more numbers to work with on a yr. by yr. basis.
I think I've spent too much time talking about something I only have a casual interest in at best. The competition will get better as kids get older and catch up to the full timers. Just look at the A's, from what I read they are not killing teams like they did at the beginning. Maybe this group will be a future feeder group for the privates in HS. There are only so many spots and as good the current HS is the sophs only took 5 spots. I wish that gruop all the success in the world, but I'm delighted that I don't have a skater in that morass.
I think I've spent too much time talking about something I only have a casual interest in at best. The competition will get better as kids get older and catch up to the full timers. Just look at the A's, from what I read they are not killing teams like they did at the beginning. Maybe this group will be a future feeder group for the privates in HS. There are only so many spots and as good the current HS is the sophs only took 5 spots. I wish that gruop all the success in the world, but I'm delighted that I don't have a skater in that morass.
We can all talk about what the optimum way to develop a player is, but I believe if you look at the top players at almost any level, they have probably skated more than the middle or bottom (in general). These top associations appear to have a lot of good parent coaches who have played the game and can get good quality ice time at a lower cost since they can teach the kids as well or better than any of the multitude of $30/hr hockey camps.
It usually goes like this: Rookie mite shows promise; parents get excited and start sending them to clinics. Early success continues since Johnny is getting more quality ice time than one who's parents didn't see the early promise or said it is too early to specialize.
All of a sudden, Johnny is significantly better and the competition between parents heats up. Johnny's dad only wants to be associated with kids of like ability and they form a cocoon around their talented young stars. Other parents, who cannot start to get into the inner circle start sending their kids to clinics, form their own cocoon, and an arms race begins.
It ends up with the cut throat competition to make that squirt A team. They think if they make squirt A, then their destiny is determined (high school, college, pro). A lot of parents do what they think is best for their child, not the program as a whole. You end up with 8,9, and 10 year olds playing hockey 11-12 months out of the year. They dominate the competition early on, but the gap narrow as each year goes on.
With such huge numbers and high quality and excessive ice time, the program dominates through the youth years. There is a huge room for error due to the numbers. Outside of the exceptional few, there is a large mass of similar talented kids in the 2nd tier. Some will drop off and you never notice since there are so many of them. In the end, the high school coach only plays two lines and does not develop the 3rd an 4th due to the desire to go undefeated or have only a couple of losses for the year.
In short, you won't change the super sized programs since whatever they are doing now works. It may not be optimum, but few parents who have a top end squirt wants to develop the middle or bottom. They like the fact that the pyramid forms early and get involved to do their best to keep it that way.
The programs that have to develop all the kids to be successful are the best situation for any kid. Roseau is a perfect example. Those kids who can't skate well at an early age get the attention so they can catch up. It is funny how a Wayne Gretzky and Sidney Crosby still developed exceptional skill when there was no real competition for them until they reached puberty. Too much emphasis on pre-pubescent success drives these programs, not what is best for the whole group.
It usually goes like this: Rookie mite shows promise; parents get excited and start sending them to clinics. Early success continues since Johnny is getting more quality ice time than one who's parents didn't see the early promise or said it is too early to specialize.
All of a sudden, Johnny is significantly better and the competition between parents heats up. Johnny's dad only wants to be associated with kids of like ability and they form a cocoon around their talented young stars. Other parents, who cannot start to get into the inner circle start sending their kids to clinics, form their own cocoon, and an arms race begins.
It ends up with the cut throat competition to make that squirt A team. They think if they make squirt A, then their destiny is determined (high school, college, pro). A lot of parents do what they think is best for their child, not the program as a whole. You end up with 8,9, and 10 year olds playing hockey 11-12 months out of the year. They dominate the competition early on, but the gap narrow as each year goes on.
With such huge numbers and high quality and excessive ice time, the program dominates through the youth years. There is a huge room for error due to the numbers. Outside of the exceptional few, there is a large mass of similar talented kids in the 2nd tier. Some will drop off and you never notice since there are so many of them. In the end, the high school coach only plays two lines and does not develop the 3rd an 4th due to the desire to go undefeated or have only a couple of losses for the year.
In short, you won't change the super sized programs since whatever they are doing now works. It may not be optimum, but few parents who have a top end squirt wants to develop the middle or bottom. They like the fact that the pyramid forms early and get involved to do their best to keep it that way.
The programs that have to develop all the kids to be successful are the best situation for any kid. Roseau is a perfect example. Those kids who can't skate well at an early age get the attention so they can catch up. It is funny how a Wayne Gretzky and Sidney Crosby still developed exceptional skill when there was no real competition for them until they reached puberty. Too much emphasis on pre-pubescent success drives these programs, not what is best for the whole group.
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Lily Braden
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:45 pm
I'm not 100-percent sure on this, but it appears that all the Edina teams advanced in the District 6, Squirt B tournament....along with a Minnetonka team.
I think two wild card teams also move on, but when I went to take a closer look at the rules, I was frightened off by all the talk of points, penalties, goals against, tie-breakers, that I said "forget it" and had another glass of wine and went back to reading US Weekly.
Anyway, the winner of the District 6, Squirt B tournament is likely to be from Edina.
Or Minnetonka.
Or possibly somewhere else.
Hope this helps.
I think two wild card teams also move on, but when I went to take a closer look at the rules, I was frightened off by all the talk of points, penalties, goals against, tie-breakers, that I said "forget it" and had another glass of wine and went back to reading US Weekly.
Anyway, the winner of the District 6, Squirt B tournament is likely to be from Edina.
Or Minnetonka.
Or possibly somewhere else.
Hope this helps.
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O-townClown
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town
Squirt B
Sorn, you and I see a lot of the same things here. Nothing wrong with having winning teams, but the way it is set up today is fun in a we-have-a-real-strong-program-and-are-reminded-of-it-daily kind of way and not man-this-is-exciting-look-at-all-these-close-games way.
Lily, you are right. 6 for 6 on the Edina teams. Two other teams advanced and will join Edina Rainbow in the Quarterfinals.
At the Pee Wee level, Edina's two B teams met in the state final.
Lily, you are right. 6 for 6 on the Edina teams. Two other teams advanced and will join Edina Rainbow in the Quarterfinals.
At the Pee Wee level, Edina's two B teams met in the state final.
Be kind. Rewind.
Edina Hockey Blah Blah Blah
How many more posts can we have about Edina hockey this year? It is obvious they have a great program that developes 5 to 6 great kids every year. That is it, 5 to 6 great kids. The benefit is not talent, it is numbers and extra cash to invest in youth hockey. They could easily support two A teams and still win 80% of their games, but I don't think that is what the old blood in Edina wants. They want to win 100% of their games and any less is unexceptable. I know for a fact that an A1 and an A2 team were discussed, but it was shot down without even discussing it. Why? What would happen if the A1 team happen to lose to a team that the A2 team beat.
I think some associations would go with two "A" teams if the districts allowed them to go A1 and A2. As I understand it, the districts want them to be even.
It really does not matter in the long run. I am in this for my kids to have fun. I see these parent politicians working the coaches and board members for the possible chance that their kid will be selected for the higher team. It is absolutely nuts at times, but it is what it is. The good athletes that develop a passion for the game when they hit puberty will be the kids who stick out in the end. There is no need to get worked up about 5-11 year olds and their parents NHL dreams. Some youth superstars will remain superstars, some will fade; but subjecting them to year round hockey before they learn cursive writing does more harm than good.
It really does not matter in the long run. I am in this for my kids to have fun. I see these parent politicians working the coaches and board members for the possible chance that their kid will be selected for the higher team. It is absolutely nuts at times, but it is what it is. The good athletes that develop a passion for the game when they hit puberty will be the kids who stick out in the end. There is no need to get worked up about 5-11 year olds and their parents NHL dreams. Some youth superstars will remain superstars, some will fade; but subjecting them to year round hockey before they learn cursive writing does more harm than good.
I'm with sorno on this topic. Of course it's easier for me since it's clear my son will never compete for an A slot. 
On the issue of a house league for squirts. The Edina association sent an e-mail survey out about it last year to us 3rd year mite parents. There was significant support for it...for other people's kids.
The responders thought it was a good idea, but they wanted their own kids to play traveling.
The B Edina teams were 6 for 6 in winning their pools at district. Also the C teams were 5 for 5 in winning their pools while the A won the district title. Also the U10A team was runner up to Eden Prairie while one U10B Edina team beat another for the title while a third won the consolation.
I believe every B team hs two goalies on roster. Only one C team has two and they have the non-starting goalie skate out.
On the issue of a house league for squirts. The Edina association sent an e-mail survey out about it last year to us 3rd year mite parents. There was significant support for it...for other people's kids.
The responders thought it was a good idea, but they wanted their own kids to play traveling.The B Edina teams were 6 for 6 in winning their pools at district. Also the C teams were 5 for 5 in winning their pools while the A won the district title. Also the U10A team was runner up to Eden Prairie while one U10B Edina team beat another for the title while a third won the consolation.
I believe every B team hs two goalies on roster. Only one C team has two and they have the non-starting goalie skate out.
Re: Edina Hockey Blah Blah Blah
What would (should) happen? One group of kids would feel the exhiliration of beating a better team, and another group of kids would be given the opportunity to learn from losing - nothing more. I love the fact Edina has one Squirt A (or any level) team - with no Goliaths, there can be no Davids. I watched all three Edina Squirt A teams this weekend, and watched three teams busting it on every shift to do what seemed to be the impossible, and while they didn't, the games were much closer than games earlier in the year. One could argue that is due to those kids rallying around the common goal of "beating the best" and improving as a result. Improvement, fun, reaching goals - that it is what it's all about!!Sticks24 wrote:How many more posts can we have about Edina hockey this year? It is obvious they have a great program that developes 5 to 6 great kids every year. That is it, 5 to 6 great kids. The benefit is not talent, it is numbers and extra cash to invest in youth hockey. They could easily support two A teams and still win 80% of their games, but I don't think that is what the old blood in Edina wants. They want to win 100% of their games and any less is unexceptable. I know for a fact that an A1 and an A2 team were discussed, but it was shot down without even discussing it. Why? What would happen if the A1 team happen to lose to a team that the A2 team beat.
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hockeyparent11
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:38 am
Yes. yes. yes. I would like to post this on about 20 different threads.sorno82 wrote:I think some associations would go with two "A" teams if the districts allowed them to go A1 and A2. As I understand it, the districts want them to be even.
It really does not matter in the long run. I am in this for my kids to have fun.
The good athletes that develop a passion for the game when they hit puberty will be the kids who stick out in the end. There is no need to get worked up about 5-11 year olds and their parents NHL dreams. Some youth superstars will remain superstars, some will fade.
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ty.planter
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:41 pm
Re: Edina's Squirt Bs in District 6 league action
12 kids on our roster would have still squelched any jealous B team out there. In regards to goalie rotation, yeah - I would have liked to see my kid have more ice time, but I think our team game play was very fair: a B goalie trading off is fine. Off season is for serious development: it is important for kids to understand fair play and not 'win at any cost'. Skilled coaching is the difference. Parents need to chill, big time. I cannot believe how many other team coaches were screaming at their kids. Come on, grow up! It's about the kids!
Lily Braden wrote:[
Squirt rosters at B level and below should be no more than 12 skaters. I think they are carrying 14 each this year andall 12 Edina teams at the Squirt level have two goaltenders. (Pretty sure.) This is not a good thing. Reducing rosters slightly will foster development in the form of increased ice time as well as forcing players to play different positions.
I'm not sure I agree on the goalie thing. Is it better to play every game on a C team, but be bored out of your mind in goal, or play half the amount of time on a B team and be challenged by the shots you face?
OR, are you proposing that there be two goalies on every C team? That would be a terrible thing for any goalie, imo.
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Sports Mom
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:29 pm
MM is offering a Choice Squirt league. For the 2007-2008 season, the MM Choice Mite league did reduce the EHA 3rd years Mites from 6 teams the prior year to just 4 this year.
All recommendations for change mentioned in the earlier postings totally match this parent’s viewpoint. A co-worker from another association has a son who plays goalie and lost to Edina by 16 – 1, might be Edina squirt A. I just learned of this today. Where is the sportsmanship and compassion? Where is the EHA guideline giving direction to the coaches when scores run up during the game?
So how does change happen?
To get elected to the EHA board, a person has to be nominated by the existing board. The list of people running to be elected to the board does go up for a vote to parents with children in the hockey program. As a parent, we can only vote to approve or reject the entire list of candidates. We are not allowed to vote for specific individuals. All ballots not returned are counted as yes votes. Is this how other associations are run?
All recommendations for change mentioned in the earlier postings totally match this parent’s viewpoint. A co-worker from another association has a son who plays goalie and lost to Edina by 16 – 1, might be Edina squirt A. I just learned of this today. Where is the sportsmanship and compassion? Where is the EHA guideline giving direction to the coaches when scores run up during the game?
So how does change happen?
To get elected to the EHA board, a person has to be nominated by the existing board. The list of people running to be elected to the board does go up for a vote to parents with children in the hockey program. As a parent, we can only vote to approve or reject the entire list of candidates. We are not allowed to vote for specific individuals. All ballots not returned are counted as yes votes. Is this how other associations are run?