Referee Experiences

[nahc]

Consistancy will continue to be a major challenge. Northern tiered refs seem to "let the kids play" and call very little. This is a challenge to southern teams playing north and vise versa especially in the state tourney. An interference penalty in New Ulm should be called the same way in Roseau. Checking from behind should be called again the same in Moorehead as in Maple Grove.........Individual interpretations of the rules drives coaches and players nuts.......

[TriedThat2]

Impressive philosophy, inthestands, very impressive! What mountain must I climb to receive to such wonderful advice on a daily basis?

Hockey, just like life, is what we make it, not what someone else let's it be, wants it to be, wishes it was, or allows it to be/become. That is a life lesson that is learned too late in life.

Unfortunately, how do we change the "system?" The wake up call has been sent (many times), but most people simply roll over!

[inthestands]

Impressive philosophy, inthestands, very impressive! What mountain must I climb to receive to such wonderful advice on a daily basis?

Hockey, just like life, is what we make it, not what someone else let's it be, wants it to be, wishes it was, or allows it to be/become. That is a life lesson that is learned too late in life.

Unfortunately, how do we change the "system?" The wake up call has been sent (many times), but most people simply roll over!

I don't have the answer to changing the system, and am not sure there is a "right answer". I hesitate to use this analogy, but will anyway. The NHL decided to change the way professional games were to be officiated. The buy in was difficult, even though some of the direction change came from the teams, and the NHL has just a few referee's to get this change dealt with.

This change rolled down hill all the way to the USA hockey program. The buy in was more difficult from the team aspect since we have very few NHL caliber coaches, managers, players and so on. Next there are thousands of youth level officials across the US, just as with the teams, we have very few NHL caliber officals. Trying to get a state to be consistent from border to border is not something I can realistically comment on.

From comments here, and through out our state I would have to say USA hockey did an adequate job of teaching and selling the change. How does the calling get more consistent from here, I don't know.

For you "triedthat2", just send me a PM, and you can have my cell phone, e-mail and what ever else you feel might be helpful.

[RLStars]

Just a thought. I have an idea that I think would be a good tool in helping people understand what is happening on the ice during a game. This could be done in conjuction with HEP.

USA Hockey and/or MN Hockey could outfit cameras on helmets of officials to make a video of some actual games being played. They could even go so far as to using differnt ages to see how the younger officals are treated. Have one "helmet cam" on the referee and one on a linesmen at different youth hockey age level games. Tape a whole game and include the sounds so people can get a true indication of what gets yelled at from the stands and what is said to and by the coaches and players. They could also have some cameras going from a few spectaors from each team filming what the would actually be focused on during the game as well as from the coaches eyes on the bench.

Now, have the parents watch these games from the spectators viewpoint and write dowwn or stop the tape when they see a penalty. After going through the game, they could then watch the same series of events from the officials "helmet cam" and see what the play looked like from the officals eyes. Go through a whole game and again, write down or mark the penalties they spot. Compare the two and see how much different the game is from the stands, the bench and the ice.

If it was done right, they could make it interactive. Stop the play and hear what coaches, players and fans have to say about the call. Before the viewing the viewers would have to watch the "Standards of Play" videos that are currently out to help them understand what is supposed to be called.

This could also be a great training tool for officals, not just parents, coaches or players.

What do you think?

[RLStars]

I'll bet some of the attitudes would change if your child was the player on the ice with a black and white striped officials jersey and whistle.... I've never seen a player have a perfect game. I've never witnessed an official call one. At the final buzzer, more times than not, both have done their best even if they haven't met with the fans approval.

Those words are so true and I for one have had this happen. My son is a youth hockey official and I'm very proud of him for continuing to be one.

I have been a coach as well as a parent spectator for quite a few years now. I have been a parent in the stands that felt compelled to question and yell things from the stands and am embarrassed to admit that. I have been a coach that complains and makes the official aware of every call or none call that was made or missed during the game. Again, I'm embarrassed to admit to it.

All that changed after my son decided to give officiating a try. When he started officiating, I would have to drive him to the rink and watch the game he was working. Usually I had no ties to any team on the ice and didn't care who won or lost. It is amazing how the parents and coaches of the team that is slower, less skilled or just plain down in points on the scoreboard acts when a call goes against their team. It didn't matter how blatant it was to me as an unbiased observer, it was always the wrong call. At the same time, nobody complains when an obvious penalty occurs from their team and the call is missed.

After games and on the ride home, I'll ask questions about certain calls and non calls that I observed during the game. I'm looking for his perspective. He'll tell me what he saw and what was said and I almost always end up thinking his call or lack there of made sense in that instance.

I have friends who still coach and can't help but shake my head every time they complain about an off sides that was missed during their teams game. In the end, that off sides didn't cause your team to lose and it really doesn't matter. Play the game because you love to play. Watch the game because you love to watch it or your kids love to play.

Here is a story for you. He was officiating a 10u game. The puck was shot on net and the goalie covered it. Right before the whistle was blown, the offensive team player hit the goalies glove (very lightly, but noticeable) to try to dislodge the puck. The official skated over to retrieve the puck, asked the goalie if she was okay (she was) and proceeded to explain to the player that if the puck is covered by the goalie, they can't hit the goalies glove.

The goalies coach was livid and wanted to speak to the official so he did. The coach wanted a penalty (of course his team was losing) because the puck was covered. The official asked the coach if he teaches his 10u players to keep going until they hear the whistle. The coach said "yes". The official said "The other coach teaches the same thing, so I explained to the player that even if she doesn't hear a whistle, she can not try to knock the puck out of the goalies glove. If it is covered by the goalie and doesn't hear the whistle, she needs to stop. If she does it again, she will be called for slashing and have to sit in the penalty box".

The official then said to the questioning coach: "Coach, if your player hit the goalies glove before the whistle, would you want me to give your 10u player the same treatment and give her a warning and explain the problem?" The coach gave a reluctant "Yes". End of story.

[elliott70]

I'll bet some of the attitudes would change if your child was the player on the ice with a black and white striped officials jersey and whistle.... I've never seen a player have a perfect game. I've never witnessed an official call one. At the final buzzer, more times than not, both have done their best even if they haven't met with the fans approval.

Those words are so true and I for one have had this happen. My son is a youth hockey official and I'm very proud of him for continuing to be one.

I have been a coach as well as a parent spectator for quite a few years now. I have been a parent in the stands that felt compelled to question and yell things from the stands and am embarrassed to admit that. I have been a coach that complains and makes the official aware of every call or none call that was made or missed during the game. Again, I'm embarrassed to admit to it.

All that changed after my son decided to give officiating a try. When he started officiating, I would have to drive him to the rink and watch the game he was working. Usually I had no ties to any team on the ice and didn't care who won or lost. It is amazing how the parents and coaches of the team that is slower, less skilled or just plain down in points on the scoreboard acts when a call goes against their team. It didn't matter how blatant it was to me as an unbiased observer, it was always the wrong call. At the same time, nobody complains when an obvious penalty occurs from their team and the call is missed.

After games and on the ride home, I'll ask questions about certain calls and non calls that I observed during the game. I'm looking for his perspective. He'll tell me what he saw and what was said and I almost always end up thinking his call or lack there of made sense in that instance.

I have friends who still coach and can't help but shake my head every time they complain about an off sides that was missed during their teams game. In the end, that off sides didn't cause your team to lose and it really doesn't matter. Play the game because you love to play. Watch the game because you love to watch it or your kids love to play.

Here is a story for you. He was officiating a 10u game. The puck was shot on net and the goalie covered it. Right before the whistle was blown, the offensive team player hit the goalies glove (very lightly, but noticeable) to try to dislodge the puck. The official skated over to retrieve the puck, asked the goalie if she was okay (she was) and proceeded to explain to the player that if the puck is covered by the goalie, they can't hit the goalies glove.

The goalies coach was livid and wanted to speak to the official so he did. The coach wanted a penalty (of course his team was losing) because the puck was covered. The official asked the coach if he teaches his 10u players to keep going until they hear the whistle. The coach said "yes". The official said "The other coach teaches the same thing, so I explained to the player that even if she doesn't hear a whistle, she can not try to knock the puck out of the goalies glove. If it is covered by the goalie and doesn't hear the whistle, she needs to stop. If she does it again, she will be called for slashing and have to sit in the penalty box".

The official then said to the questioning coach: "Coach, if your player hit the goalies glove before the whistle, would you want me to give your 10u player the same treatment and give her a warning and explain the problem?" The coach gave a reluctant "Yes". End of story.

The kids smarter than the old man.

[Reggie]

Blew the whistle on us( the guy with the puck. His mouth guard wasn't all the way in his mouth) as he was about to score, after that misses checking from behind right in front of him (player broke arm) admits seeing it and should have called boarding????? 2 late!!

[theref]

ahh.......Most of these post have been greatly refreshing. It is great to see that there are still a few people out there that have a great perspective on the game of hockey, life, and us officials. To all of you that do have the patience to accept that we do make mistakes, I say thank you. I have been around the game for a while and it is always nice to hear that there are still people that have a clue as to how we work, even though they don't do what we do. Good luck to all your teams and keep enjoying the game of hockey. Thank you to those that support us.

[jancze5]

My only gripe against officials is with those that make it their duty to screw one team..not knowing any player or coach on that team, they just decide that for whatever reason they don't like that program and proceed to file that team one after another to the box...while blatantly not calling anything on "their" team. If the shoe fits, wear it.

My point being, as an official you are entrusted within the RULES to officiate a fair and impartial game. Read the conduct standards. You are a PAID participant, the ONLY PAID participant on the ice. Your conduct should be the most questionable and accountable. Yes, coaches and parents get upset for missed things here and there...for the most part, REF's get 99% of the stuff right and the rest we will all live with and that's not what I'm talking about. If you think a ref cost you a game on one blown call...consider what your team did the other 40+ minutes on the ice. But when REF's blatanly are biased it's just not fair for the kids and is outright disrespect the game. If you are a REF and have ever done this, you should quit and quit now, you have no business being on the ice.

REFS: call the game fair, you are PAID to do it

[QuackerTracker]

My only gripe against officials is with those that make it their duty to screw one team..

Are you serious? Do you really thing that an official goes on the ice and says "Hmmm... I think I am going to go after that team tonight?"

[RLStars]

The kids smarter than the old man.

At least that means I AM doing something right

[inthestands]

The kids smarter than the old man.

At least that means I AM doing something right

Maybe you could have reggie and jancze5 over for dinner some night???

[stealthbandit]

Hows this scenerio: Two top ranked Bantam teams playing a very physical game. The visiting coach is kicked out of early in the game without warning for asking a question (and maybe mumbling something about the refs mother??). With 3 minutes remaining in the tied game, the visitors receive 2 questionable penalties within 30 seconds of each other. The home team then scores scores to win the game. I certainly appreciate referees for the split second decisions they have to make and the crap they have to listen to during the game, but I find it hard to swallow when this happens to your team and the referee leaves the arena wearing his White Bear jacket. Who do you think the home team was??

[theref]

Hows this scenerio: Two top ranked Bantam teams playing a very physical game. The visiting coach is kicked out of early in the game without warning for asking a question (and maybe mumbling something about the refs mother??). With 3 minutes remaining in the tied game, the visitors receive 2 questionable penalties within 30 seconds of each other. The home team then scores scores to win the game. I certainly appreciate referees for the split second decisions they have to make and the crap they have to listen to during the game, but I find it hard to swallow when this happens to your team and the referee leaves the arena wearing his White Bear jacket. Who do you think the home team was??

I'm sure if I was reffing a game and a coach decided to throw out personal comments about my family, he would probably going home as well. That is stepping outside the boundries of questioning a referee and it's obvious that this coach had no business being on the bench that night.

[mnreferee1]

For all of those individuals that feel the need to criticize officials I think it would be nice if we started on an equal playing field. I am providing the link to the USA Hockey rule book that you can download in PDF format to your computer.
http://www.usahockey.com/uploadedFiles/ ... 200709.pdf

I have two points I want to personally address:

The first is concerning control of players and of games. As an official we are the last line of defense to controlling behaviour. We, unfortunately, are probably the only person in that players life that is going to hold them accountable for their on ice actions. We do not have the opportunity to raise the player from an infant and teach them respect. We expect that they will have had that upbringing prior to getting onto the ice. We are only able to penalize a player after they have committed an offense. If a player gets hurt as the result of a players on ice action it is never the officials fault. If a game is "getting out of hand" due to your interpretation of poor officiating, it is still the players responsibility to behave with respect to other players. If they take it upon themselves to avenge justice, and in so doing injure another player, that player is the only one that could have prevented that action from occurring. As a coach I told my players that they should be more concerned with what I saw happen on the ice as the official's responsibilty is to officiate the game and enforce the rules. My job as coach is to teach the game and teach respect for the game.

The second point is the infamous "Call it both ways" mentality or the "he's out to get our team" mentality, or any form of the above mentality. This essentially is saying that an official is knowingly seeing a penalty and either intentionally ignoring it or calling depending on who the player, team, association, city, or whatever group they are affilliated with is. I am only going to say this once WE ARE NOT THAT SMART. We see dark and light colored jerseys. I challenge anyone to provide information where a referee assessed a penalty by saying "johnny from yourtown, two minutes for whateverpenalty" Officials are not out to get teams.

In closing I just want to encourage all participants in this great game to treat each other with respect. We don't have to agree on a particular set of events but I as an official I respect what you are doing as a coach and I will treat you with respect. I only ask that you show me the same respect for what I am bringing to the game, which is an impartial, unemotional, perspective to the game.

[inthestands]

Hows this scenerio: Two top ranked Bantam teams playing a very physical game. The visiting coach is kicked out of early in the game without warning for asking a question (and maybe mumbling something about the refs mother??). With 3 minutes remaining in the tied game, the visitors receive 2 questionable penalties within 30 seconds of each other. The home team then scores scores to win the game. I certainly appreciate referees for the split second decisions they have to make and the crap they have to listen to during the game, but I find it hard to swallow when this happens to your team and the referee leaves the arena wearing his White Bear jacket. Who do you think the home team was??

Stealth, aside from all the speculation about what was said or questionable calls being made, the official in question should not have been wearing clothing with home town indicators. Although more times than not, we are dealing with local people working games, they shouldn't be advertising the fact.

If I were the head coach of the team that was on the visiting side of that equation, I would probably notify the local supervisor of officials. This gets a bit clouded since it sounds like one of the coaches in question was given a game misconduct during the contest...

[stealthbandit]

Theref: Lighten up, I'm not sure what was said so it was a joke about your mom...Bottom line, keep the kids safe and keep it fair!

[quote="theref"][quote="stealthbandit"]Hows this scenerio: Two top ranked Bantam teams playing a very physical game. The visiting coach is kicked out of early in the game without warning for asking a question (and maybe mumbling something about the refs mother??). With 3 minutes remaining in the tied game, the visitors receive 2 questionable penalties within 30 seconds of each other. The home team then scores scores to win the game. I certainly appreciate referees for the split second decisions they have to make and the crap they have to listen to during the game, but I find it hard to swallow when this happens to your team and the referee leaves the arena wearing his White Bear jacket. Who do you think the home team was??[/quote]

I'm sure if I was reffing a game and a coach decided to throw out personal comments about my family, he would probably going home as well. That is stepping outside the boundries of questioning a referee and it's obvious that this coach had no business being on the bench that night.[/quote]

[hiptzech]

The kids smarter than the old man.

At least that means I AM doing something right

Maybe you could have reggie and jancze5 over for dinner some night???

Don't serve them ice cream, they will complain that it's too cold...

[BobbyOrrFraud]

Worst refs i've ever seen are in St. Cloud (lazy,no control)

[jancze5]

THere are certainly situations that warrant removal of coaches, etc...
all I'm saying in my position...be fair in your calling of the game.
I'm not saying anyone has done it, I'm not pointing at one imparticular Ref, I'm just saying call the game fair and with integrity.

Integrity should be an officials most important attribute. If you're a REF and call a fair and equal game, you will certainly earn the respect of the Coaches and players on the ice. I think the majority of the refs see that.

I think if you're a ref and you're constantly giving bench minors and kicking parents out of the game, it may be time to look in the mirror and wonder if maybe it's partly your contribution as well. Self evaluate.

They should close rink 2 at the BIG by the way, you whisper a "WHAT" to your wife and suddenly you're watching the game from the picture taking guys screen in single frame!! Too close to the action standing up there..close that rink and I'll whisper lower next time...sorry!

[RLStars]

At least that means I AM doing something right

Maybe you could have reggie and jancze5 over for dinner some night???

Don't serve them ice cream, they will complain that it's too cold...

No........One will say its too soft and the other will say its too hard.

[SubAverageHockeyFan]

For a special treat go check out a youth basketball tournament. You have parents from opposing teams sitting shoulder-to-should two feet from the court. Everyone can hear everything. Most have an opinion on the officiating and the more the opposing fans protest an official’s call the louder the counter protest. Compared to hockey, basketball has many more opportunities for a foul or violation and the physical "standard of play" in a 5th grade girls game would make some Bantam 'A' players blush. In the younger levels you could blow the whistle every 15 seconds. As it is there are typically 30-40 fouls called in a 28 minute game. That's at least one whistle every 45 seconds for a foul and that does not include whistles for lane violations, 3, 5, or 10 second calls, traveling, jump balls, etc. Somehow the officials manage to keep things under control and don’t look any worse for the wear. Go watch. Going back to the rink will be like going to the opera.

[QuackerTracker]

For a special treat go check out a youth basketball tournament. You have parents from opposing teams sitting shoulder-to-should two feet from the court. Everyone can hear everything. Most have an opinion on the officiating and the more the opposing fans protest an official’s call the louder the counter protest. Compared to hockey, basketball has many more opportunities for a foul or violation and the physical "standard of play" in a 5th grade girls game would make some Bantam 'A' players blush. In the younger levels you could blow the whistle every 15 seconds. As it is there are typically 30-40 fouls called in a 28 minute game. That's at least one whistle every 45 seconds for a foul and that does not include whistles for lane violations, 3, 5, or 10 second calls, traveling, jump balls, etc. Somehow the officials manage to keep things under control and don’t look any worse for the wear. Go watch. Going back to the rink will be like going to the opera.

Did you just compare a 5th grade basketball game to a bantam hockey game? Wow you should give officiating a try then.

[theref]

Theref: Lighten up, I'm not sure what was said so it was a joke about your mom...Bottom line, keep the kids safe and keep it fair!

Hows this scenerio: Two top ranked Bantam teams playing a very physical game. The visiting coach is kicked out of early in the game without warning for asking a question (and maybe mumbling something about the refs mother??). With 3 minutes remaining in the tied game, the visitors receive 2 questionable penalties within 30 seconds of each other. The home team then scores scores to win the game. I certainly appreciate referees for the split second decisions they have to make and the crap they have to listen to during the game, but I find it hard to swallow when this happens to your team and the referee leaves the arena wearing his White Bear jacket. Who do you think the home team was??

I'm sure if I was reffing a game and a coach decided to throw out personal comments about my family, he would probably going home as well. That is stepping outside the boundries of questioning a referee and it's obvious that this coach had no business being on the bench that night.

Please feel free to use all of your brain on this one. There was no other way for me to take that other than how you said it. I never took it as a personal attack and certainly don't feel like I need to lighten up. Personally I don't get riled up by angry coaches or parents. Find them amusing more than anything, but I definately don't let them get away with disrespecting me either.

[jancze5]

Not sure about Reggie, but if I come over for Ice Cream can you get me some Jack Daniels Ice Cream from Johns in downtown Colorado Springs...

and no, I won't complain about Ice Cream...have you seen my gut, I never pass on desert or is it dessert...whatever. Thanks for your thoughts though...