New Rules: Shootouts and Fighting

warrior2132 · Post by **warrior2132** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:21 pm

well anyways what is the rule to fighting.. i believe that if you fight your kicked out of that game and the next... am i right?

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:27 pm

warrior2132 wrote:well anyways what is the rule to fighting.. i believe that if you fight your kicked out of that game and the next... am i right?

Yep... if you get the game misconduct.

newsguy35 · Post by **newsguy35** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:35 pm

warrior2132 wrote:well anyways what is the rule to fighting.. i believe that if you fight your kicked out of that game and the next... am i right?

You may be forgetting a certain hearing with the MSHSL and a possibly larger suspension as well as some restrictions... I am assuming the MSHSL will take into account your past and if you have had any other discrepencies prior to the fist fest and make a decision. That is one board I would not want to sit in front of tho...

thorhockey · Post by **thorhockey** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:59 pm

At the ushl chicago showcase camp there were a few fights/totally allowed, and also a couple injuries due to these jacked up kids dropping their gloves.
When my son later said he and a few other kids were planning to fight in advance of a game with the other team, it was obvious to me that the game, and the skills they were there to showcase,was no longer the focus. Bottom line - no fights in High School Hockey. End of discussion.

td577 · Post by **td577** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:09 am

I have a question about fighting. I know in college a player serves the number of game suspensions as his total of DQs. Is this true for MSHSL participants, or is it still just the next game only?

newsguy35 · Post by **newsguy35** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:21 am

td577 wrote:I have a question about fighting. I know in college a player serves the number of game suspensions as his total of DQs. Is this true for MSHSL participants, or is it still just the next game only?

As I wrote before, they must sit in on a hearing as far as I am told. I am not sure if this is completely accurate but according to the rule book it states that the MSHSL board has a hearing and the participants must go to it, plead a case and the board makes a decision... I have not had to witness any of this and not all of it is written out in its entirity in the book. Maybe Roseville fans/players/coaches could help with this (or anybody whom has been involved)?

schwang17 · Post by **schwang17** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:44 pm

Can't Never Tried wrote:Everybody busted their hump and a team loses on one shot?.

It actually happens more often than you think...like in OT or the final minutes of the 3rd...or even perhaps the local watering hole...

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:55 pm

schwang17 wrote:
Can't Never Tried wrote:Everybody busted their hump and a team loses on one shot?.
It actually happens more often than you think...like in OT or the final minutes of the 3rd...or even perhaps the local watering hole...

I'll give you the watering hole

but OT or late in the 3rd is a goal against the team, not just the goalie.

stud-lee · Post by **stud-lee** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:25 pm

I'm in no way saying fighting should or will ever be allowed in high school. Truth is it won't, but in theory couldn't it help to cut down on the vicious two hand slashes and other actions that could cause serious injury? I have also read "The Code" and it seems to me that if two players have a disagreement with each other, wouldn't it be better to just drop the gloves and settle it like men instead of taking cheap shots that could end up getting a player more injured than a punch? What do you guys think?

td577 · Post by **td577** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm

stud-lee wrote:I'm in no way saying fighting should or will ever be allowed in high school. Truth is it won't, but in theory couldn't it help to cut down on the vicious two hand slashes and other actions that could cause serious injury? I have also read "The Code" and it seems to me that if two players have a disagreement with each other, wouldn't it be better to just drop the gloves and settle it like men instead of taking cheap shots that could end up getting a player more injured than a punch? What do you guys think?

If you want boys to act like men, you teach them composure and poise.

mch · Post by **mch** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:36 pm

GR3343 wrote:Fighting in high school hockey should not be an option. Thinking like that is what brings the sport down. Shootouts is an exciting option. It's made the NHL much more exciting. It could do the same for the high school game. You'd have to clear it with schools like Duluth East though, they seem to think losing in a shootout means they actually tied. Even if it's a holiday tourney, a loss is a loss.

Back to fighting. Making it an option in high school hockey would only open yourself up to liability. It would end up with some hack who's 6'3" going after some skilled player who's 5'5". The hack would say it was justified and within the rules. These kids are just that, and not many would make the responsible choice. Fighting in college and the pros is a different animal. Let's try and keep the game at least a little bit pure at the high school level.

i agree. a lot of freshman and sophomore would try to do the "tough" thing and duke it out with a senior. however, they just are not developed physically at age 15 to stand up against 17 and 18 year olds

eagle4life9 · Post by **eagle4life9** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:17 pm

Fighting is something that should never happen in HS hockey, period. It would not help the sport at all. The point of HS hockey is to develop players into good all around people. And for those who are fortunate enough to go on and play college hockey, Minnesota HS hockey is the best place you can start and adding something like fighting would not help at all.

Shootouts are an exciting factor in the NHL but since the standings only determine the section seedings I really dont think they are needed. I think its nice to have them in the tournaments for time purposes but not in league games.

As for visors I am completely against that. What is the point of not covering your face? Its not like its sooooo much more "free" and comfortable with a shield. They have face masks now that are clear and actually work very well. And you cant tell me that wearing the cages is a distraction because its not. I have never been disappointed in my vision because I couldnt see something out of my face mask or full shield.

lampthelight · Post by **lampthelight** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:28 am

I agree that Shootouts are not a way to decide a winner. IMO, A full 17-minute OT, or a 4 on 4 OT would be a better way than the current 8-minute 5 on 5. Oh, and why is the OT 8-minutes?

As for fighting.... a definite NO in high school hockey. In professional hockey I'd be fine with it, if it wasn't the enforcers doing the fighting. The Stars should stand up for themselves. But because most don't, players who have ZERO talent like Boogaard get to play in the NHL. There should be more Gordie Howe Hat Tricks(A Goal, an Assist, and a Fight in one game).

Quick Fact: It's called a Gordie Howe hat trick, even though he only recorded 1 in his entire NHL career. Brendan Shanahan has recorded an NHL record 9(Since the term was invented).

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:37 am

I'd be ok with a 8 min 4 on 4, put your two best D and two best fwds out there and go at it...that way it's still a team game.
I have no idea why it's 8 min?? Again, I'm sure it's a time thing.

pioneers · Post by **pioneers** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:40 am

Fighting is not needed at the High School level. As for the shootout, I think as Zamman said you would run into too many ice time issues if the games ran too long. In all reality, at this level, it doesn't really make that much difference during the regular season if the game ends in a tie or not.
In sectionals and the state tournament you need to have a winner. Does anyone know what percentage of games actually end in a tie? My guess is that it is a pretty low amount.

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:57 am

pioneers wrote:Fighting is not needed at the High School level. As for the shootout, I think as Zamman said you would run into too many ice time issues if the games ran too long. In all reality, at this level, it doesn't really make that much difference during the regular season if the game ends in a tie or not.
In sectionals and the state tournament you need to have a winner. Does anyone know what percentage of games actually end in a tie? My guess is that it is a pretty low amount.

Roughly 3.5% so far this year, and that is very rough, as I estimated that all 154 teams played 13 games, and so far there are 69 reported ties.

pioneers · Post by **pioneers** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:04 pm

So a pretty low percentage. Doesn't seem to be a big issue to me.

eagle4life9 · Post by **eagle4life9** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:15 pm

My guess is that OT is 8 minutes because its close to half of what a period would be. 17 divided by two is 8.5 so I guess they just rounded down to 8 minutes. Just a guess though.

petern3 · Post by **petern3** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:26 pm

I don't think there should be shootouts or fighting in high school hockey. It's fun to see one team win every game played, but shootouts are not for high school. I think that one five minute overtime is already enough.

defense · Post by **defense** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:27 pm

Never ever and I'd even say fighting should get out completely. Hockey is about skills of an individual being put into a team, not about goons. The great part about the sport is NOT fighting it IS the flow, the speed, the creativity, ..........
besides, hockey already is rough, I'm all for hitting (checking) and the checking "wars" that happen, who doesn't like to see some bodys thrown around...

bus_driver · Post by **bus_driver** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:24 pm

Sections are seeded by a coaches vote. If two teams in the section were balanced enough to tie when they played in the regular season their records at the seeding meeting should reflect that. If playoff games aren't decided by shootouts(which they should not be) teams should not get a seeding bump for being good at them in the regular season.

Mr. McTabish · Post by **Mr. McTabish** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:51 pm

I think fighting should be legal in high school basketball.

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