Nationalize health care?

[tomASS]

Just wanted to add....the Government already does a great job of providing health care to a select group....our politicians
Don't get me started on thier wonderful 'retirement' packages.

Talk about waste in Gov.

You speak the truth! I was thinking the exact same thing (you should be very worried) That is criminal in the social and financial context of things.

[packerboy]

ChrisK wrote:

I think the key theme is making insurance affordable for everyone. How did health care get tied up as a job benefit, shouldn't everyone have the right to affordable health insurance regardless of where they work? Or am I starting to spout commie pinko talk here.


Where did this "right" to affordable healthcare come from?

The Constitution?

Did God give it to Moses with the 10 Commandments?

There is no such right. Is it desirable? Sure but it costs what it costs just like everything else.

Its capitalism and a free market society. The only thing that controls costs is competeition and supply and demand. There is more demand for healthcare than supply. What controls the costs of an effective drug? More than one choice.

It isnt the insurance companies fault, it isnt the lawyers fault. It isnt anybody's fault.

[goldy313]

A Nationalized Healthcare system will bankrupt the country, fast. Much like Social Security eventually there won't be enough people paying to pay those that get the money doled out. The biggest problem is with uninsured/people who don't pay, they (Insurance Companies and Medical Facilities) have to then pass on the costs to those of us who do pay, which in turn makes health care insurance and healthcare that much more expensive.

The Los Angeles School District is faced with a problem; they need more space and more money to educate the growing population - which to a large extent is illegal immigrants, the voters won't pass a bond because by and large illegal immigrants don't own property which is what is taxed for schools. I think thats the rub with a lot of things, people who pay the taxes really don't want to foot the bill for those that don't. Safety nets are one thing but most people are unemployed by choice.

[elliott70]

It isnt the insurance companies fault, it isnt the lawyers fault.
It isnt anybody's fault.

Hold on a minute! We have not ruled out the
Catholics and Private Schoolers, just yet.

After all, they did ruin the Minnesota one class high school hockey tournament.



We will see; come Lent.

[packerboy]

Right you are Elliott.

But, hey, we have been blamed for everything else, why not add healthcare to the list. After all, think of all of those hospitals that are named after Saints.

[Can't Never Tried]

It's capitalism and a free market society.

You can't exactly shop for a apendectomy, or other emergent services..
You pay what they say...or the insurance Co. has to.

[packerboy]

Yah CNT, I know.

Thats why we need more competition.

Not 6 month waiting lists for new patients.

[Can't Never Tried]

Yah CNT, I know.

Thats why we need more competition.

Not 6 month waiting lists for new patients.

That part I'm in agreement with...if you went to get your muffler fixed and they said it would be 6 months you'd go someplace else to take care of the problem.
However with health care it's different you could try another doctor in your network but if you have to go outside it ........$$$$$$Cha Ching that's gonna cost you extra..so at that point the frustration would be..... fine I'll go to the emergency room they have to see me...and I think that's a lot of what happens....not saying in your case, but I know a great many that are that way.

My guess is....... you put your foot down here on the "bored"one to many times..so this was a preventable problem

[packerboy]

So, it was my fault.

I should of figured.

Next time instead of putting my foot down, Ill just leave it in my mouth where it usually is.

We need more Doctors. Thats the first step. We have enough muffler places as you point out and that keeps prices down and service up. Midas didnt go broke when CarX opened up.

I cant wait for the commercial: 'Rattle , rattle , thunder , clater, boom , boom , boom, Don't worry , call the Orthopedic man.

[BIAFP]

We need more Doctors. Thats the first step.

I am sure that nationalizing healthcare would greatly increase the number of people getting into medicine.

[packerboy]

BIAFP, We dont have a problem with people not wanting to get into medicine.

We turn away a lot of qualified people. Opening up opportunity would create more numbers, which would create more competition, which would create better service and lower costs.

That's not nationalization, its American.

God Bless America.

[BIAFP]

BIAFP, We dont have a problem with people not wanting to get into medicine.

We turn away a lot of qualified people. Opening up opportunity would create more numbers, which would create more competition, which would create better service and lower costs.

That's not nationalization, its American.

God Bless America.

If it is nationalized then there is no competition And I said nothing about people WANTING to get into medicine.

[Can't Never Tried]

Well figure around 8 yrs schooling then at least 3 or 4 more doing your specialty...at todays education cost's it's tough to say "I want to go into debt 1/4-1/2 million" (estimated)
Before I even start making anything...well minus residency pay...

That probably keeps the field pretty slim....huh!

PB your gonna get Hoof & Mouth disease if your not careful

[goldy313]

It's capitalism and a free market society.

You can't exactly shop for a apendectomy, or other emergent services..
You pay what they say...or the insurance Co. has to.

You can't but your insurance company can. Blue Cross, for example, won't pay Mayo Clinic prices for standard things so I have to use Olmsted Community Hospital. That's fine, my premiums haven't incresed and there is no drop in care and if I come down with some bizarre ailment I can go to Mayo. The Government pays far less than you and me for nearly everything because they represent such a large group that they can negoitate better prices.

PB, the only way to get more people into medicine would be to lower the standards and I'm not sure that's a very good answer to the problem. The people who get turned away generally aren't qualified and there are more that wash out during the process. Opening medicine up to more people would only bring the quality down. I have enough trouble finding a decent mechanic, I don't want to go through that process with my own body.

[Can't Never Tried]

It's capitalism and a free market society.

You can't exactly shop for a apendectomy, or other emergent services..
You pay what they say...or the insurance Co. has to.

You can't but your insurance company can. Blue Cross, for example, won't pay Mayo Clinic prices for standard things so I have to use Olmsted Community Hospital. That's fine, my premiums haven't incresed and there is no drop in care and if I come down with some bizarre ailment I can go to Mayo. The Government pays far less than you and me for nearly everything because they represent such a large group that they can negoitate better prices.

PB, the only way to get more people into medicine would be to lower the standards and I'm not sure that's a very good answer to the problem. The people who get turned away generally aren't qualified and there are more that wash out during the process. Opening medicine up to more people would only bring the quality down. I have enough trouble finding a decent mechanic, I don't want to go through that process with my own body.

I see your point...I still don't like governments hands on anymore program money....Social Security ring a bell?

[Knowlzee]

The "sniffles" do not very often, if ever,.....turn into rheumatic fever, much less a bad heart valve.

Is our current health care system a disaster,.....or is that what we continually hear from politicians that would like to control it for us? Sure, the costs are going up, all costs are going up.

Some (not sure if it's millions) don't have health coverage. My family's house is smaller than we would like,......we all make choices. Health care is not a right. Frankly, neither is having a job,.....which you well know.

If Packerboy's foot was an emergency,.....pretty sure it wouldn't be 6 months, it would be looked at more timely. Regardless, if he wanted to pay cash out of his own pocket, he could get an appointment next week.

Adam and Eve were "thrown out to wolves", with no health coverage. Over time, people have progressed,.....we have found ways to earn capital to purchase what we need. We have made so much progress, and our lifestyle is so much improved,.....that we now just expect to have jobs,.....have health care,......have a home,......rather than find a way to earn and achieve what is important to us.

Thank God for a job, and great health (and health coverage, too).

[packerboy]

goldy wrote:

PB, the only way to get more people into medicine would be to lower the standards

goldy, that is a lot of bull dung. Living with all those white coats down in Rochester has you brianwashed.

There are hundereds of qualified people who are turned away every year. We are talking about a couple of points here and there on the MCATs.

We could have many more MDs without lowering the quality of service.

In fact, I would bet that adding a few more MDs would greatly enhance the quality of treatment. Maybe some of these Drs could actually take some time with their patients.

[goldy313]

Packerboy the closet liberal??? Espousing the everybody's a winner theory??? I never thought I'd see the day. What's next? A Hillary for President bumper sticker?

The only good way to get more people into medicine would be to somehow lower the costs of education. Right now you either have to come from a wealthy family or have the Military pay for it in trade for service time. And without a doubt the first example is far more prevelant. The USDA and even the Minnesota Dept. of Agriculture have a plan where they pay for your Vet schooling if you become a large animal Vet due to the shortage of them. Without lowering standards they have attracted more applicants, I think that's a far better way to go than lowering test scores. In exchange for say a 5 year appointment in rural North Dakota the Government pays for your med school, you'll have far better success attracting people into medicine instead of letting people in who didn't pass the test.

Schools in the South don't pay very well as compared to the midwest so the only way they can attract teachers is by lowering standards, some places an AA degree qualifies you to be a teacher. It's no wonder their schools are so poor. Lowering standards has never worked as a way to improve quality.

[tomASS]

LOL - Hoorah! - Hillary just screwed herself and her chances for even being the Democrate's presidential candidate by announcing a need for a National Health Care Program. If the Democrats want the white house this time around they can't have a candidate with that platform. They will never get elected on a national basis. This is such great news

now go away Hillary, go far far away.

[Neutron 14]

Packerboy the closet liberal??? Espousing the everybody's a winner theory???

Ruh-Roh...

packerboys been outed...

Next thing you know, the ACLU will be defending Larry Craig!!!

[packerboy]

Hey, admit it... Hilary is hot and Bill is back.

goldy, people are willing to take out loans and do whatever to get into medical shool. The shortage of MDs is intentional. Finances and qualifications have nothing to do with it. There are only so many desks available and thats the way the profession wants to keep it.

Technically, I suppose, we would "lower standards" but only from the top 5% to the top 7%. Its not like we would be admitting 'C' students to medical school.

Tax and spend baby, its the answer to everything. Just throw money at it.

[BIAFP]

Hey, admit it... Hilary is hot and Bill is back.

goldy, people are willing to take out loans and do whatever to get into medical shool. The shortage of MDs is intentional. Finances and qualifications have nothing to do with it. There are only so many desks available and thats the way the profession wants to keep it.

Technically, I suppose, we would "lower standards" but only from the top 5% to the top 7%. Its not like we would be admitting 'C' students to medical school.

Tax and spend baby, its the answer to everything. Just throw money at it.

A Liberal Attorney..........imagine that!

[packerboy]

I think its the bankers BIAFP.

You guys gave all that money away with your ultra liberal mortgage lending policies and look where it got us.

[BIAFP]

Real banks don't do subprime lending!

[Can't Never Tried]

I think its the bankers BIAFP.

You guys gave all that money away with your ultra liberal mortgage lending policies and look where it got us.

That was a subprime shot!