Twins 29-29, All Square & Ready To Go On A Tear

Govs93 · Post by **Govs93** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:54 am

TWINS MAGIC NUMBER: 63

Govs93 · Post by **Govs93** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:12 am

Can we all agree that this article is bad news?

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:23 am

Govs93 wrote:Can we all agree that this article is bad news?

He sounds tired.

I agree with everything he said.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:31 am

No. I think its healthy.

Sanatana can say it and Ryan can hear it and then they can both go about doing their jobs.

Ryan thinks that trading Castillo is a good long term decision and probably wont effect the teams chances in 07. Maybe, maybe not.

Sanatana is angry because he likes Castillo and thinks he can help the team win and doesnt see anything being added.

Santana ought to shutup and pitch. He blames Ryan for not getting the team any further. Well, Ryan has got them into the postseason for a number of years and last year they won 96 ball games and their divsion.

Is Ryan supposed to hit and pitch against the As in the playoffs too?

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:18 pm

Santana's entitled to his opinion but don't think for a minute that those opinions will affect his performance.

Whether tonight is a W or not, 57 will go for the throat tomorrow, when he does that will make it five of six and we all know that winning can hide a lot of negativity.

Wild4hockey · Post by **Wild4hockey** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:23 pm

I am sensing the end of Tori and Johan in Minnesota. I am emotionally preparing myself for their exodus this offseason. To me it looks like the Twins could be headed to the basement of the division for a couple years. We will not be playoff contenders without Tori and Cy-tana.

Seems to me the front office of the Twins has a business plan in place to make the team good enough to keep fans on the edge of their seat, but not good enough to put the players in place to make a run at the World Series.

Govs93 · Post by **Govs93** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:26 pm

Wild4hockey wrote:I am sensing the end of Tori and Johan in Minnesota. I am emotionally preparing myself for their exodus this offseason. To me it looks like the Twins could be headed to the basement of the division for a couple years. We will not be playoff contenders without Tori and Cy-tana.

Seems to me the front office of the Twins has a business plan in place to make the team good enough to keep fans on the edge of their seat, but not good enough to put the players in place to make a run at the World Series.

You'll only have to brace for Torii's exit this offseason. Johan is signed through 2008.

Wild4hockey · Post by **Wild4hockey** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:28 pm

Govs93 wrote:
Wild4hockey wrote:I am sensing the end of Tori and Johan in Minnesota. I am emotionally preparing myself for their exodus this offseason. To me it looks like the Twins could be headed to the basement of the division for a couple years. We will not be playoff contenders without Tori and Cy-tana.

Seems to me the front office of the Twins has a business plan in place to make the team good enough to keep fans on the edge of their seat, but not good enough to put the players in place to make a run at the World Series.
You'll only have to brace for Torii's exit this offseason. Johan is signed through 2008.

I know, but if it becomes clear that the Twins won't be able to resign him, they will probably choose to trade him prior to the season in order too get the maximum return on him.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:30 pm

I agree IS. If anything, he needs to pitch a litle more "pissed off"

You could be right Wild4 but they have had their chances in the postseason, and this includes Santana, and they have not played their best ball except the one series with Oakland.

Govs93 · Post by **Govs93** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:38 pm

I don't know... we'll see what happens, but I have to think with the pitching depth they'll have in 2008, it could be a big season, so a mid-season deal for Santana would be unlikely. With that in mind, this does really turn into a huge offseason for the Twins and a chance to lock him up.

It's all speculation and way too soon to start that, but it will be very interesting.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:01 pm

packerboy wrote:If anything, he needs to pitch a litle more "pissed off"

Exactly. I have always liked that stoic, unflappable player or coach. They go about the game the same way regardless of the score or sitiuation, but at the same, I do like when those unflappable guys show some emotion.

If Johan wants to rally the team and turn the dome into the home field advantage it was in '87 & '91, go off on an opposing player or umpire if the situation arises. The manager throwing his hat and kicking dirt has been done but if Johan did it, the players would respond.

We've been saying hit the Boofing Ball all year but that simple phrase means they've got the guys already, they just have to be healthy and do it. I'd like a another stick as much as anyone but they just need a spark and I think Johan could provide it in ways other than hanging zeros and striking out 12 guys.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:20 am

Cleveland +13
-----cut line-------
Seattle +12
New York +9 12 HR's in two nights
Twins +3 blown opportunity last night but more in the hunt now than a week ago
Toronto -1 black numbers, red numbers, black numbers, red numbers

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:23 am

"Santana ought to shutup and pitch"? Really? He does that already. He pitches as well as he can every game he's on the mound and tries to win. But what he says is completely right.

"Well, Ryan has got them into the postseason for a number of years"? Really? I would say the PLAYERS got us into the playoffs. And last year it was the Royals' players that got us there. How can you sit back and give him any credit for "doing [his] job"? That's like arguing that Kevin McHale was doing his job...

Bottom line, this team has a few holes in their line up that needed to be filled and they weren't. If, and as hopeful as we all are it seems like a big if, we we make the playoffs this year, or the Series or however far, the credit is on the players 100%.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:28 am

Last year they won 96 ball games. Only 2 teams in MLB had a better record and only by one game.

If a team is good enough to win 96, they are good enough to advance far in the playoffs.

Sanatana did not pitch well enough last year in the playoffs. He hasnt pitched well enough in a number of starts this season.

I get tired of this "Well, he didnt get any run support" stuff.

Sure that is important but if you are so good that you can call out the GM, you better start only gving up 1 when your team can only score 2. In other words, shut up and pitch.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:59 am

So, you're basically saying that baseball is an individual sport and the only guy on the team that matters is the pitcher?

In Santana's last 10 starts he's had one bad game. He's given up a total of 19 runs in those games, with a 2.48 ERA and 65 strikeouts. From his pitching we should be 9-1 in his last ten starts, but instead we are 6-4. Your argument works if the back is there. Sure, he's not having the season he had last year, but he's one of the best pitchers in the game, arguably the best, but he's missing run support. If you give up 13 runs in 9 games no ones would guess you had 2 losses in those games, unless you told them you pitched for the twins.

You're tired of the "well, he didn't get any run support" stuff? I am too. I am tired of our pitchers not getting any run support. Sure, we've had our blowouts, but if even half of our games where our pitchers had good games, we had run support, we'd be way in the front of the Central division. Bottom line, we needed to have gotten a DH or a 3rd baseman with some power. Either or both of those fixed and we'd roll onto the playoffs. Now we get to say bye bye to Santana.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:04 pm

Sox are 5-0 over Detroit, Seattle will probably lose to Boston, and Santana's pitching tonight. Hopefully we can hit the ball too.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:26 am

Have no fear, the good luck is here.

Let's go Casilla! (Oh, and the Twins too (hopefully for the division because the Yanks look like they are gonna need the WC)!)

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:58 am

So, I got up this morning and I was bored. I noticed the Cleveland Indians have two pitchers in the top 3 in wins in MLB, while the twins, only a 6.5 games shy have one that's in 16th. So, it got me thinking after all of packerboy's "shut up and pitch" comments.

Santana has a 2.98 ERA compared to 3.56 and 3.27 of Sabathia and Carmona.
Santana has given up 121 hits compared to 177 and 136.
Santana has 57 runs and 51 ER, compared to 74,66 and 53,50.
Santana has 164 SO compared to 148 and 82.

If you'd like the rest of the stats you can get them yourself. Bottom line, if you were to compare these pitchers (I'm sure you could do it with many others) on paper Santana comes out way on top until you look at their W/L record. Santana 11-9, Sabathia 14-6, Carmona 13-5. Hmmm.

The one stat they don't post is how many runs your team scored in your outings. I'd like another explanatioin for why he's not winning. He should have one loss since the all star break from his pitching and should be in first in the MLB with wins.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:27 am

And right there is my reasoning for trading Santana. We have the pitching depth that can pitch decently, but we need to get some guys who put runs on the board and there is nobody better to get that for us than Johan.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:00 am

I'm on board with ERE, if the Twins moved Santana for two real bats in the offseason I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

1. Casilla 2B
2. New Bat DH/3B/LF
3. Mauer C
4. Morneau 1B
5. New Bat DH/3B/LF
6. Hunter CF
7. Cuddyer RF
8. Kubel LF/DH
9. Bartlett SS

With this lineup it does give the Twins quick strike potential all they way through the 8 hole.

The other night in the KC loss when Ford led off with a walk to start the 10th he was followed by Punto, Casilla and Tyner and the game ended with Bartlett on deck. Who in that group could tie it with one poorly located pitch?

Govs93 · Post by **Govs93** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:18 am

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:And right there is my reasoning for trading Santana. We have the pitching depth that can pitch decently, but we need to get some guys who put runs on the board and there is nobody better to get that for us than Johan.

I'm starting to come around on this idea a little bit because of some of the depth we've seen this season from Rochester. If you go into spring training in 2008 with Baker, Garza, Bonser, Silva, Slowey, Blackburn, Duensing, and maybe Perkins competing for the 5 starting spots, I'd be willing to take my chances with that. I still think they they should at least take a shot at getting Santana resigned this offseason, but if becomes clear that they won't be able to do it, I'd say go ahead and pull the trigger, but not for pitching or prospects - get bats that can help now.

It would be interesting to see what they'd do though, because if they could get a thumper or two that can actually make an impact for Santana, that would likely either add money to the payroll or be right near what he'd be making in '08 ($13.25m), then what do you do with Hunter & Morneau?

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:04 pm

0

Go get the Bulldog some points now!

grindiangrad-80 · Post by **grindiangrad-80** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:46 pm

36-17
Go Twins.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:16 pm

On to go .500 with Cleveland like people said, we're just fine. We are fine, Detroit lost twice in a row and we're creeping up. We're fine. Hopefully Santana doesn't leave

grindiangrad-80 · Post by **grindiangrad-80** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:54 pm

Make that 35-17.
Go Twins.