I find myself Rooting Against Hermantown - I think

[rainier]

No one in outstate MN can compare numbers with the suburban huge schools, but that doesn't mean that 37 high schoolers trying out for hockey and two got cut is hurting at all. And the question remains , why cut then??

Compared to 7AA Elk River - This year, no cuts, I think it was 35 total that tried out. Last year was low thirties. Not all METRO AA schools have the huge numbers.....

Elk River has 4 BN 5 PW
Herm 3 BN 3 PW
Hibbing 2 BN 3 PW
East 5 BN 6 PW

Next year Herm will have 2 BN and 3 maybe 4 PW.

Hibbing has 2 PW teams.

[Froggy Richards]

The agenda of Froggy and Rainier is simply to get Hermantown out of 7A so their teams have a better chance of getting to state. It's getting pretty pathetic. If you said some of the things on here to my face like "Plante Recruits" I would have a hard time not punching you in yours. That is simply bs and slandering his character. Not sure about Denfeld but what I hear about Hibbing you need to strengthen your youth and HS off season programs. How do you expect to compete if your boys are not working out / skating most of the year? All the top programs I know about do. I guess it's just easier to come on here and slander a quality program and try to force a legitimate class A school to opt up so your lame program can have a chance to get out of sections. Keep on beating this dead horse I think people are starting to see you for what you are. You 2 are the winers and what respect I had for your programs is now gone.

I think you're overly sensitive Peky. Read my posts from Today. NrthHockey asked a question about EGF and I answered it. I didn't whine about anything. And show me one post from me on this entire forum since the day I signed up that says Plante recruits. You won't find one. So who is whining? And what is the agenda of the rest of the people who contributed to this 8 page thread?

[pekyman]

The agenda of Froggy and Rainier is simply to get Hermantown out of 7A so their teams have a better chance of getting to state. It's getting pretty pathetic. If you said some of the things on here to my face like "Plante Recruits" I would have a hard time not punching you in yours. That is simply bs and slandering his character. Not sure about Denfeld but what I hear about Hibbing you need to strengthen your youth and HS off season programs. How do you expect to compete if your boys are not working out / skating most of the year? All the top programs I know about do. I guess it's just easier to come on here and slander a quality program and try to force a legitimate class A school to opt up so your lame program can have a chance to get out of sections. Keep on beating this dead horse I think people are starting to see you for what you are. You 2 are the winers and what respect I had for your programs is now gone.

By far we are not the only ones calling for Hermantown to move up. Go ahead, look through the thread and you will see plenty of others saying the same thing. It was a topic of discussion of KFAN , for god's sake. It is obvious.

Why did you want STA out of Class A? Could it be so that your team had a better chance of winning state? Not as fun when you're the target, huh?

I've never said Hermantown isn't a legitimate A school. What I've said is that because they can compete well in AA, which is obvious to everyone except you, that they should. That, and if they can do it at the youth levels then they can do it at the high school level.

Can you answer that question? If Hermantown is indeed a "legitimate" A school (which I agree that they are), then why don't they play A at youth levels? Why don't you tell us why your Hawks shouldn't play in AA or why they shouldn't be in A at the youth level? It would be better than the threats and name-calling you engage in now.

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

[pekyman]

The agenda of Froggy and Rainier is simply to get Hermantown out of 7A so their teams have a better chance of getting to state. It's getting pretty pathetic. If you said some of the things on here to my face like "Plante Recruits" I would have a hard time not punching you in yours. That is simply bs and slandering his character. Not sure about Denfeld but what I hear about Hibbing you need to strengthen your youth and HS off season programs. How do you expect to compete if your boys are not working out / skating most of the year? All the top programs I know about do. I guess it's just easier to come on here and slander a quality program and try to force a legitimate class A school to opt up so your lame program can have a chance to get out of sections. Keep on beating this dead horse I think people are starting to see you for what you are. You 2 are the winers and what respect I had for your programs is now gone.

By far we are not the only ones calling for Hermantown to move up. Go ahead, look through the thread and you will see plenty of others saying the same thing. It was a topic of discussion of KFAN , for god's sake. It is obvious.

Why did you want STA out of Class A? Could it be so that your team had a better chance of winning state? Not as fun when you're the target, huh?

I've never said Hermantown isn't a legitimate A school. What I've said is that because they can compete well in AA, which is obvious to everyone except you, that they should. That, and if they can do it at the youth levels then they can do it at the high school level.

Can you answer that question? If Hermantown is indeed a "legitimate" A school (which I agree that they are), then why don't they play A at youth levels? Why don't you tell us why your Hawks shouldn't play in AA or why they shouldn't be in A at the youth level? It would be better than the threats and name-calling you engage in now.

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

STA is a different animal entirety and you know that. I could careless if EGF wins state the next 10 years. They are a class a public school. Same as Mahtomedi. Nothing but respect for them. We need to get better to beat them. If they decide to move up, good for them. If not that's fine to.

[pekyman]

By far we are not the only ones calling for Hermantown to move up. Go ahead, look through the thread and you will see plenty of others saying the same thing. It was a topic of discussion of KFAN , for god's sake. It is obvious.

Why did you want STA out of Class A? Could it be so that your team had a better chance of winning state? Not as fun when you're the target, huh?

I've never said Hermantown isn't a legitimate A school. What I've said is that because they can compete well in AA, which is obvious to everyone except you, that they should. That, and if they can do it at the youth levels then they can do it at the high school level.

Can you answer that question? If Hermantown is indeed a "legitimate" A school (which I agree that they are), then why don't they play A at youth levels? Why don't you tell us why your Hawks shouldn't play in AA or why they shouldn't be in A at the youth level? It would be better than the threats and name-calling you engage in now.

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

STA is a different animal entirety and you know that. I could careless if EGF wins state the next 10 years. They are a class a public school. Same as Mahtomedi. Nothing but respect for them. We need to get better to beat them. If they decide to move up, good for them. If not that's fine to.

In addition, I would not care if GR, Cloquet, Roseau or Bemidgi moved back down. If their public and meet the class A requirement it's up to them. It would make for an awesome A tourney. As is was, I thought A tourney was much more exciting than the AA.

[rainier]

The agenda of Froggy and Rainier is simply to get Hermantown out of 7A so their teams have a better chance of getting to state. It's getting pretty pathetic. If you said some of the things on here to my face like "Plante Recruits" I would have a hard time not punching you in yours. That is simply bs and slandering his character. Not sure about Denfeld but what I hear about Hibbing you need to strengthen your youth and HS off season programs. How do you expect to compete if your boys are not working out / skating most of the year? All the top programs I know about do. I guess it's just easier to come on here and slander a quality program and try to force a legitimate class A school to opt up so your lame program can have a chance to get out of sections. Keep on beating this dead horse I think people are starting to see you for what you are. You 2 are the winers and what respect I had for your programs is now gone.

By far we are not the only ones calling for Hermantown to move up. Go ahead, look through the thread and you will see plenty of others saying the same thing. It was a topic of discussion of KFAN , for god's sake. It is obvious.

Why did you want STA out of Class A? Could it be so that your team had a better chance of winning state? Not as fun when you're the target, huh?

I've never said Hermantown isn't a legitimate A school. What I've said is that because they can compete well in AA, which is obvious to everyone except you, that they should. That, and if they can do it at the youth levels then they can do it at the high school level.

Can you answer that question? If Hermantown is indeed a "legitimate" A school (which I agree that they are), then why don't they play A at youth levels? Why don't you tell us why your Hawks shouldn't play in AA or why they shouldn't be in A at the youth level? It would be better than the threats and name-calling you engage in now.

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

So what you are saying is that your team is too good for A? Your youth teams seek out AA competition so that they can play against teams that are good enough? That's fine, but why are these teams good enough to play against at the high school level? Why aren't the Hawks too good for A when they get to high school? Not to mention, your bantams don't even play the top A teams. (Orono, Mahtomedi, etc.)

Your team is a legitimate A team, I acknowledge that fully, but so are Roseau, Rapids, Bemidji, Cloquet, and Hibbing and Greenway back when they did opt up. Being a legitimate A team is not a reason to avoid opting up.

Your team is awesome! Don't you want them to go to the AA tourney? They've lost titles to metro privates that had no business being in A, and then they ran into a once-in-a-generation group of EGF kids the past two years. It's not as if they lost to mediocre teams; they lost to teams that most likely would have been in the AA tourney had they opted up at the time.

[rainier]

The best argument for Hermantown opting up is the fact that Duluth Marshall opted up.

Marshall looked at their two options for getting back to the state tourney:

1. Stay in A and try to beat Hermantown.

2. Go to AA and try to beat East, Rapids, Elk River, Cloquet, and other AA schools.

They chose to try to get by four high level AA programs every year instead of trying to get by one high level A program.

The Hawks are so good that the Hilltoppers would rather take their chances against East every year rather than have to try and get by Hermantown?

That's nuts!

[pekyman]

By far we are not the only ones calling for Hermantown to move up. Go ahead, look through the thread and you will see plenty of others saying the same thing. It was a topic of discussion of KFAN , for god's sake. It is obvious.

Why did you want STA out of Class A? Could it be so that your team had a better chance of winning state? Not as fun when you're the target, huh?

I've never said Hermantown isn't a legitimate A school. What I've said is that because they can compete well in AA, which is obvious to everyone except you, that they should. That, and if they can do it at the youth levels then they can do it at the high school level.

Can you answer that question? If Hermantown is indeed a "legitimate" A school (which I agree that they are), then why don't they play A at youth levels? Why don't you tell us why your Hawks shouldn't play in AA or why they shouldn't be in A at the youth level? It would be better than the threats and name-calling you engage in now.

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

So what you are saying is that your team is too good for A? Your youth teams seek out AA competition so that they can play against teams that are good enough? That's fine, but why are these teams good enough to play against at the high school level? Why aren't the Hawks too good for A when they get to high school? Not to mention, your bantams don't even play the top A teams. (Orono, Mahtomedi, etc.)

Your team is a legitimate A team, I acknowledge that fully, but so are Roseau, Rapids, Bemidji, Cloquet, and Hibbing and Greenway back when they did opt up. Being a legitimate A team is not a reason to avoid opting up.

Your team is awesome! Don't you want them to go to the AA tourney? They've lost titles to metro privates that had no business being in A, and then they ran into a once-in-a-generation group of EGF kids the past two years. It's not as if they lost to mediocre teams; they lost to teams that most likely would have been in the AA tourney had they opted up at the time.

I already said what I think needs to happen for Hermantown to make that jump. Finish new school, try to get another sheet of inside ice. Going to AA would completely change the culture. If it happens it will be a process and obviously not quick enough for you. Go Back and read nota612 post as that was excellent but I don't think you really care about what he said. You want Herm out of your way.

[rainier]

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

So what you are saying is that your team is too good for A? Your youth teams seek out AA competition so that they can play against teams that are good enough? That's fine, but why are these teams good enough to play against at the high school level? Why aren't the Hawks too good for A when they get to high school? Not to mention, your bantams don't even play the top A teams. (Orono, Mahtomedi, etc.)

Your team is a legitimate A team, I acknowledge that fully, but so are Roseau, Rapids, Bemidji, Cloquet, and Hibbing and Greenway back when they did opt up. Being a legitimate A team is not a reason to avoid opting up.

Your team is awesome! Don't you want them to go to the AA tourney? They've lost titles to metro privates that had no business being in A, and then they ran into a once-in-a-generation group of EGF kids the past two years. It's not as if they lost to mediocre teams; they lost to teams that most likely would have been in the AA tourney had they opted up at the time.

I already said what I think needs to happen for Hermantown to make that jump. Finish new school, try to get another sheet of inside ice. Going to AA would completely change the culture. If it happens it will be a process and obviously not quick enough for you. Go Back and read nota612 post as that was excellent but I don't think you really care about what he said. You want Herm out of your way.

Just as you wanted STA out of your way. Pot calling the kettle black, maybe?

And I did read his whole post, which can be summed up as:
"Hermantown parents put a lot of time and money into hockey, so they think they deserve to go to state every year."

I'm glad you don't see it this way.

[pekyman]

There simply is not enough quality A teams around. Simple as that. A is not very deep but the top ones are very good.

So what you are saying is that your team is too good for A? Your youth teams seek out AA competition so that they can play against teams that are good enough? That's fine, but why are these teams good enough to play against at the high school level? Why aren't the Hawks too good for A when they get to high school? Not to mention, your bantams don't even play the top A teams. (Orono, Mahtomedi, etc.)

Your team is a legitimate A team, I acknowledge that fully, but so are Roseau, Rapids, Bemidji, Cloquet, and Hibbing and Greenway back when they did opt up. Being a legitimate A team is not a reason to avoid opting up.

Your team is awesome! Don't you want them to go to the AA tourney? They've lost titles to metro privates that had no business being in A, and then they ran into a once-in-a-generation group of EGF kids the past two years. It's not as if they lost to mediocre teams; they lost to teams that most likely would have been in the AA tourney had they opted up at the time.

I already said what I think needs to happen for Hermantown to make that jump. Finish new school, try to get another sheet of inside ice. Going to AA would completely change the culture. If it happens it will be a process and obviously not quick enough for you. Go Back and read nota612 post as that was excellent but I don't think you really care about what he said. You want Herm out of your way.

Your putting words in my mouth. I never said they were too good for A. I said A in not deep and many 10-25 AA teams are similar to the 1-10 A teams so why not play them.

[pekyman]

I'm officially done with hockey for the year. Have a great off season and get your boys to the weight room Rainier. Peace.

[The Trap]

[The Trap]

Nice post Froggy. In all fairness, though, Hunters have benefited from a few transfers themselves over the last few years.... nobody however will benefit more than Marshall over the coming years. Hermantown will have a bit of a lull here at the same time Marshall will be revving up.

They have had a few at the High School level, yes. If a player wants to transfer in High School and sit out a year, I have no problem with that. The kids who came in couldn't make the team where they lived, had a falling out with their old coach and I think there was one that cited Medical reasons.

The Youth Level, unfortunately, has been a one-way street out. Same with Proctor. I worry about the future of those two programs. MN Hockey is failing us up here. It's time to get back to play where you live. The decision to allow them to play where they open-enroll has been a failure. Go to school wherever you want, but play at home. Education is a right, Hockey is a privilege. People can still play wherever they want. They just have to move there. MN Hockey made it way too easy. If their goal is to grow the game, then put it back to how it was when the game was actually growing.

Once again, spot f'en on! Glad there is someone else that still thinks this way. But Minnesota Hockey won't listen and I don't see it changing. If they think growing the game is watching the small programs whither away, they will be sadly mistaken. Once the Proctors & Denfelds go away, when it comes time for the non-hockey traditional families to decide what sport their kids will play, it will be another winter sport vs. driving them to the closest coop. I've been trying for years to get MN Hockey to realize this, but it ain't changing.

[Froggy Richards]

Nice post Froggy. In all fairness, though, Hunters have benefited from a few transfers themselves over the last few years.... nobody however will benefit more than Marshall over the coming years. Hermantown will have a bit of a lull here at the same time Marshall will be revving up.

They have had a few at the High School level, yes. If a player wants to transfer in High School and sit out a year, I have no problem with that. The kids who came in couldn't make the team where they lived, had a falling out with their old coach and I think there was one that cited Medical reasons.

The Youth Level, unfortunately, has been a one-way street out. Same with Proctor. I worry about the future of those two programs. MN Hockey is failing us up here. It's time to get back to play where you live. The decision to allow them to play where they open-enroll has been a failure. Go to school wherever you want, but play at home. Education is a right, Hockey is a privilege. People can still play wherever they want. They just have to move there. MN Hockey made it way too easy. If their goal is to grow the game, then put it back to how it was when the game was actually growing.

Once again, spot f'en on! Glad there is someone else that still thinks this way. But Minnesota Hockey won't listen and I don't see it changing. If they think growing the game is watching the small programs whither away, they will be sadly mistaken. Once the Proctors & Denfelds go away, when it comes time for the non-hockey traditional families to decide what sport their kids will play, it will be another winter sport vs. driving them to the closest coop. I've been trying for years to get MN Hockey to realize this, but it ain't changing.

Yeah, MN Hockey messed that one up. I guess I can see why they did it. The conventional thinking was probably that parents will open-enroll their kids for school, so we might as well let them play Hockey with their classmates. What they obviously didn't foresee was that the parents are open-enrolling for Hockey. If it also happens to be a good school, then that makes it even more of a no-brainer for them. They should have seen this though, we all know how Hockey Parents are.