redistricting

[VicKevlar]

Osseo and BP are discussing a possible merge later this month. There are 'grandfather' clauses in place for Osseo and other locals associations. I believe the cutoff was 2000-2001 season and ongoing 'family' clause. <br><br>Ice isn't really a motivating factor with Osseo having two sheets...albeit in older facilities. BP rinks already host alot of Champlin association games (Champlin has one rink) and many Rogers games (no rink) in addition to the regular BP association and figure skating clubs.<br><br>Part of the possible merger is driven by location...the line for the Osseo/BP associations is basically north/south road <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>right next to the BP rinks</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. You can literally live in BP less than one block from the BP rinks but have to play in the Osseo association. Another factor for a possible merger is that in the OMGHA association the ongoing "word" is that Osseo is always the short end of the stick in hockey matters. <br><br>Time will tell....will definitely make for a interesting upcoming year and season. <p></p><i></i>

[toedrag]

I don't think BP needs osseo's ice either. But some of the other one rink groups do. <br><br>Bp / osseo merger has little chance. Mainly because it isn't necessary. Osseo kicks out competive teams. BP has plenty of ice along with their fund raising might. <p></p><i></i>

[hangumhigh]

ooops!!! <p></p><i></i>

[Pucknutz69]

Doesn't Rochester have 3 public schools ( Mayo, JM and Century) and 1 private (Lourdes). Every program has growth spurts and declines, some are able to sustain it longer like Lakeville they are youth heavy and high school short. Meaning their population is made up of younger families that are just getting into the hockey assc. I bet if you looked at the overall history of Rochesters hockey program you will see a cycle of good groups and ones that didn't meet the expectations of their peers. It has to do with Population. Look at SSP they are slowly losing players because the is no new growth in the community. Compare that to a Lakeville or Woodbury, even Centennial. They are looking at a past of let downs and a future that looks good due to the new growth. <br><br>And by the way if you think that the Rochester Bantam teams were equal you need to look again. <p></p><i></i>

[puckheadx2]

why do people still yap about size. Size is one factor. You still need a good program. Edina is a first ring suburb with no new growth, they have a program that is successful. Look at Eagan and Woodbury HUGE populations not much to talk about when it comes to hockey. <br><br>I feel like a broken record you have put time into your hockey program and it starts at the bottom not the top. What are you doing with the youngsters. <br><br>I would like to see what people would do with the districts put your progams in districts that make the most sense. Remember 2 of them have over twenty associations. Lets start offering ideas of where teams go instead of talking population. By the way I am going to list the upper programs populations in my next post we will see how that comes out. <p></p><i></i>

[puckboy]

puckhead: I believe most people when talking size- are talking about the size of the association and not the city population, espcially since many hockey associations are not city based. <p></p><i></i>

[puckheadx2]

Edina 59,470<br>Ep 46,656<br>Blaine 50,425<br>Eagan 64,006 <br>Moorhead 32,786<br>St Cloud 59,458 2 programs<br>Duluth 85,734 that is for 2 programs<br>Centennial 26,870<br>Bloomington 83,080 for 2 programs<br>Roseau 2,756<br><br>some of these cities have great hockey programs and not just because of population. Population is starting sound like an excuse that you cant compete. How about getting more kids to play the game?? On the list Moorhead, Cent, and Roseau are the smallest they find a way to perform. Moorhead came along in the early 90's, Cent in the late 90's and Roseau forever. But the people in town care about there hockey. If people dont care then you dont have chance big or small.<br><br>But once again put a list of associations that should become districts and talk about that. It seems pretty simple for geographics, economics, and hockey sense. Lets see some district alignments. <p></p><i></i>

[elliott70]

Nice post 'x'. <p></p><i></i>

[yaw aloki]

Gross population is not determinative. Population of skaters in an association is. If the district director of one association allows one A team while the district director overseeing a similar sized association requires 2 A teams this is flawed (at least for State ambitions.). Does anyone have skater population data and number of teams at each level setting forth A, B, C etc. for associations. MAHA???????<br><br>Go Chiefs!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[mnboom]

I agree, the size of a cities population is irrelevant if the city is either split into 3 different associations like many are, or if that small town attracts players from an area surrounding it because there is no other hockey program for a player to play in. Let's concentrate on the size of the school district since that is how MN Hockey seems to define hockey accociations. <p></p><i></i>

[hkybballcoach]

District 11<br><br>Duluth East-AA/A<br>Duluth Lakers-AA/A<br>Cloquet-A<br>Hermantown-A<br>Proctor-A<br>Moose Lake-B<br>Silver Bay-B<br>Two Harbors-B<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[WayzataABC]

Good post Yaw.<br>It's not about city population. I don't even think school district population is an accurate base, especially with open enrollment, and a wide range of participation rates. The right size measurement should be the number of registered skaters in each program. In Wayzata, that number is between 1200-1300. <br><br>Size is not the only thing to look at. Of course.<br>But size is an important consideration for any redistricting plan. It has to matter, when one association is 300-400% larger than many of the others in their district. It tips the scales too far. <br><br>Minnesota Hockey or USA Hockey has the # of skaters from each association--we send them in every year, I'm told. The data is there. Let's use it: put the numbers in a spreadsheet, look for natural breaks in association size...then plot them on the map. See what you come up with. Maybe we'd end up with fewer associations...more likely we'd end up with the same # or more, just re-aligned.<br><br>Whatever happens, if we use objectivity and common "hockey sense", I'm betting it would be an improvement over the situation we have now.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[JOHNSONPREZ]

All that the Pee Wee Maroon Rgionals confirmed is that the same teams will be going tio the State tournament for years to come. (Numbers) Redistricting is going to do nothing to change anything. <p></p><i></i>

[Gildan2036]

With the population changing in St.Paul and Minneapolis, there will only be one team left in each city. <br><br>I'll have to go back and check to see how the Mexican team did in the Olympics. I'm not sure they made it past the prelims. The Influx of Hmong refugues has really caused a demographic change that will leave the innercity with little numbers of hockey players (no pun intended).<br><br>Johnsonprez - good luck to you guys. I'm sure it isn't an easy road. <p></p><i></i>

[goldy313]

Then you have to figure out a way to get those kids to try hockey, that's the biggest problem facing hockey today. We can't just decide that since you're black, asian, or hispanic that you won't play hockey; that, at it's worst is racist, at best it is program suicide. <p></p><i></i>

[JOHNSONPREZ]

Here in the inter-city we have programs in place but if someone does not go pick the Hmong kids up most try it a couple of times and we never see them again. I have had a couple of Hmong play for me one was very good, but the Hmong community told him he needs to do things in his culture not ours. Many people outside the city limits try to tell us we don't do enough. I have coached here now for 34 years and have had just about every kind of ethnic group involved in our program and until people outside of the city experience it they don't know what they are talking about. That is just the tip of the iceberg What about single parents, abused children, I am not just a coach anymore I am counselor, parent, friend, or clergy to all these kids.<br>I know alot of people in the suburbs that coach and that is all they do is coach hockey and send the kids home. It is different here. Through all of this at least I know I made a differenc in a kids life not just on the hockey rink. Goldy313 until you walk in my shoes you don't have a right to even go there. How often do players call your black players the n-word?<br>You may have had one minority on your teams in the last how many years. I don't even call them minorities they are my KIDS!!!!! not just players. You think I a mad what was your first clue if you have any? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... SONPREZ</A> at: 3/7/06 1:07 pm<br></i>

[SEMetro]

X2 you don't sound like a metro guy - city size is irrelevant to hockey associations in the metro. I know kids living within the borders of the City of Eagan, for example, have to play for Rosemount (east Eagan), Eagan (central Eagan), Eastview (south Eagan), Burnsville (west Eagan) and Henry Sibley (north Eagan) associations for sure, maybe even Simley (northeast Eagan) not sure on that last one. <br><br>How towns/high schools are sliced up doesn't really matter - one hockey association can have 10 sq teams and a neighbor will have 3 teams. Lots of reasons besides population: a Cottage Grove will never have the same numbers of kids that can afford ice time per capita as Edina - I don't care how much you recruit. If 25% of your kids are eligible for free school lunch, good luck getting the numbers to compete per capita with Wayzata and Minnetonka. <br><br>You have five choices in the metro: (1) do nothing - continue to let the mega association pound the normal ones; (2) don't allow mega associations to play games with normal sized associations and create a 5-6 team mega league; (3) make the megas field 2 A teams if their numbers are grossly disproportionate (4-5 teams per level larger) to neighboring associations; (4) create large and small association leagues loosely like the high school; or (5) be like the rest of USA Hockey - throw out high school boundaries and let any kid play play for a AAA club team. <br><br>I would opt, in order of preference: 3, 4, 2. I think if you choose choice 1, you are choosing choice 5 for east metro kids from normal sized associations. The last two years some of our kids are already playing for the AAA teams obstensibly venued in Wisconsin but 80% Minnesotan. These teams are playing in plenty of Minnesota tourneys already.<br><br>I also have to admit: I don't really care at all about how metro redistricting affects a one week-end, end-of-the-year state tournament at the youth level. <p></p><i></i>

[JOHNSONPREZ]

This is for Goldy313,<br>Here in the inter-city we have programs in place but if someone does not go pick the Hmong kids up most try it a couple of times and we never see them again. I have had a couple of Hmong play for me one was very good, but the Hmong community told him he needs to do things in his culture not ours. Many people outside the city limits try to tell us we don't do enough. I have coached here now for 34 years and have had just about every kind of ethnic group involved in our program and until people outside of the city experience it they don't know what they are talking about. That is just the tip of the iceberg What about single parents, abused children, I am not just a coach anymore I am counselor, parent, friend, or clergy to all these kids.<br>I know alot of people in the suburbs that coach and that is all they do is coach hockey and send the kids home. It is different here. Through all of this at least I know I made a difference in a kids life not just on the hockey rink. Goldy313 until you walk in my shoes you don't have a right to even go there. How often do players call your black players the n-word?<br>You may have had one minority on your teams in the last how many years. I don't even call them minorities they are my KIDS!!!!! not just players. You think I a mad what was your first clue if you have any? <br><br>Edited by: JOHNSONPREZ at: 3/7/06 1:07 pm<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... SONPREZ</A> at: 3/7/06 2:28 pm<br></i>

[TyrellFashizo]

Would goldy313 please tell everyone what part of the state you are from, and don't say the cities. You aren't from the cities, which subburb.<br><br>Do you think Tyrell is a white name?<br><br>I coach in the cities and I would love to have you come with me when I go door to door in the hood asking kids to come play hockey. If they speak english, its a good start. Then you have to convince to show up EVERY DAY.<br><br>Why do you think schools are in the cities are having problems. <br><br>Ever been shot at.<br><br>Ask Johnsonprez about that one. <p>"Pimp'n ain't easy" </p><i></i>

[Icypalms]

Are you saying the Johnsonprez has been shot? Is he really J.R. Ewing? <p></p><i></i>

[Barado32]

I was shot at a few weeks ago. Remember that Basketball game at Johnson when the gang bangers started shooting after the game. I my brother Joe and me were at the rink scouting out a few players for our handicap summer leauge.<br><br>By the way, there were a lot great prospects there that night.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[barado23]

Are you talking again about my growth and limp?<br>You promised not to make fun of me. <p></p><i></i>

[Barado32]

Sorry, <br>I wasn't trying to make fun of you. Don't get me kicked off the board again.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[puckheadx2]

Ok- so someone suggests that "bigger" better programs should have (2) A teams and I suppose they should be equal?? Is that so the weaker 1 team programs have a chance?? What is the point of 2 A teams? should the bigger high schools have 2 Varsity teams?<br><br>I think when its all said and done and all your kids finish playing high school hockey which is about 6 or 7 per class on average; they will never sniff a higher level. So is the message dont worry son/daughter in the real world they will hire everyone because thats makes it fair for everybody. I see somebody whined about Edina having more ice and more money. Alright there is some truth to that, what do you think the average income up north is...oh thats right its different up north. <br><br>Lets face it I asked yesterday to see some new districts and that is what this site is about (redistricting) NOT INNER CITY HOCKEY. There is very little wrong with the districts they just need to be tweeked. It is a simple task that will bother a couple of programs so lets make the decision and move on. I believe <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Mr. Elliott</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> if you are reading you will encourage some coaches to partake in some discussion not the decision, the discussion on this including regional tourneys. Many feel that the Dist Directors arent talking to the right people, rather just making decisions. There are many youth coaches that have been in charge of there teams for a long time, some as long as 30 years. Invite some of the coaches to your spring or summer meeting and encourage the discussion, not the decision. That way it is a well thought out decision. Because everyone knows that it will not make everyone happy. Does that seem reasonable??<br><br>The rest of this stuff is getting old. <p></p><i></i>

[elliott70]

SPREAD THE WORD!<br><br>Would love to get more input from coaches on everything.<br>Within D16 and statewide.<br><br>So come to the meeting. I will set up the time and space if I get enough reposnses. (Enough should be at least 6 or so, but 50 would be great.) And MH can provide some lunch.<br><br>EMAIL ME <br>elliottm@paulbunyan.net<br><br>You all are comin' for the helmet issue anyway. <p></p><i></i>