GOPHERS 2014-2015

[BodyShots]

The biggest problem i see is bringing in these stud freshman that are only 18-19 years old. It just doesn't work, but I get the part that if we don't get them someone else will. Take a look at glover and Collins for instance. Both are supposed to be studs at defense but I don't see it from either at this team, which will change as they get older. So force these guys to go somewhere else or juniors for at least a year.

Bingo!

Who even heads this recruiting effort? The Coaches or the players parents? Some D1 teams are 3-4 years older on average than the gophs. Kids play 3-4 years of juniors just to get to a DIII team. Why players and families think they can play D1 hockey and should/can keep their education on track with their HS classmates is nuts. Kloos, Randolph and several others played a year or two of juniors after high school and it helped them. Playing 60 tough games is a huge development tool and maturity makes a difference. Heart and determination often increases with time. Collins, Glover, Boyd, etc. get points for playing on the NTDP team yet we all know there are 30 players playing HS hockey better than several on the NTDP team.

Cammarata played a year in the USHL with Kloos. Sounds like he blew it up points wise and dominated. So what happened between that year in the USHL and joining the Gophers? In my mind these two players are light years apart! Is the USHL a no checking league?

[mulefarm]

One of the problems the U faces is when a player is a high draft choice, the player,agent and NHL team want him on the fast track. If the U doesn't play these players, then future players will choose another school or the player will choose another option. The big problem with the U is they don't have a balance of skill players and grinder types. Almost all of the players coming to the U see themself as a skilled player and have a hard time accepting the grinder roll. When they do get the role players, they seem to have excellent seasons.

[Gopher Blog]

The biggest problem i see is bringing in these stud freshman that are only 18-19 years old. It just doesn't work, but I get the part that if we don't get them someone else will.

As you state... they have a choice. Take them now or watch somebody else take them now. If you don't take them, you have to ask yourself if you can find somebody else that you think offers equal or greater value (both now and in the long run). My suspicion is they see the long term value as being greater and hope that the upperclassmen step up each year to help ease the transition of the new guys.

I might be wrong but didn't kloos play juniors for one year after high school?

Kloos did. But that was only because Bjugstad didn't go pro before his junior year. Had Bjugstad gone pro, Kloos would have been a Gopher right away.

In the end, I believe your focus is in the wrong place. The same philosophy you are railing against is the same philosophy that landed them three straight league championships, two frozen fours in the last three years, and a championship game appearance last year. Obviously it helps when they get ample juniors time but most of the recruits they bring in these days have that experience and were successful on that level.

If your focus is on the freshmen, it is on the wrong guys. It is unfair to expect the intangibles of a Condon, Matson, Holl, etc to replaced by first year guys. You expect them to be replaced by the veterans returning to the team. This year's team is being failed by its veteran players. Mainly the upperclassmen.

[Gopher Blog]

The big problem with the U is they don't have a balance of skill players and grinder types. Almost all of the players coming to the U see themself as a skilled player and have a hard time accepting the grinder roll. When they do get the role players, they seem to have excellent seasons.

I'd agree with this for this season. They really haven't had some of the vets step up and show the capability of being a valuable role guy like a Condon or a Serratore were during the bulk of their college career. Guys like Isackson and Michaelson aren't skilled enough for top line roles but they also don't bring enough grit to be super effective in Serratore type of role. Ambroz has a physical element but he has underachieved this year. If Ambroz had been better and at least one of the Isackson/Michaelson duo had been at least on par with the senior forwards from last year, this team would be in better shape overall.

I do think they have had a pretty good mix the prior seasons though.

[Sats81]

The biggest problem i see is bringing in these stud freshman that are only 18-19 years old. It just doesn't work, but I get the part that if we don't get them someone else will. Take a look at glover and Collins for instance. Both are supposed to be studs at defense but I don't see it from either at this team, which will change as they get older. So force these guys to go somewhere else or juniors for at least a year.

Bingo!

Who even heads this recruiting effort? The Coaches or the players parents? Some D1 teams are 3-4 years older on average than the gophs. Kids play 3-4 years of juniors just to get to a DIII team. Why players and families think they can play D1 hockey and should/can keep their education on track with their HS classmates is nuts. Kloos, Randolph and several others played a year or two of juniors after high school and it helped them. Playing 60 tough games is a huge development tool and maturity makes a difference. Heart and determination often increases with time. Collins, Glover, Boyd, etc. get points for playing on the NTDP team yet we all know there are 30 players playing HS hockey better than several on the NTDP team.

Cammarata played a year in the USHL with Kloos. Sounds like he blew it up points wise and dominated. So what happened between that year in the USHL and joining the Gophers? In my mind these two players are light years apart! Is the USHL a no checking league?

He did put up huge numbers. As well as the year before as a 16 yr old. He rarely if ever came back to help beyond the red line though. D men in college hockey are all generally pretty good. In the USHL there are definitely D-men that players with great puck skills (Cammy) and speed are able to exploit. I think the book is out on Taylor now though. He doesn't skate well, has zero presence physically and is much more of a complementary guy on a line vs being a catalyst like Kloos.

[Tigers33]

My point gopher blog is these "stud" freshmen for the most part don't really produce until they are sophomores and juniors and in some cases aren't here long enough to even produce.

For instance bischoff and brodzinski. Both of them came in as true freshman age wise. Correct? After a year and change have they gotten good value out of them? Same goes with Collins, glover, and Johnson. This was basically a wasted year for Collins and glover with their expectations. So instead of bringing them in tell them to go play ushl one year AFTER high school. They aren't getting any experience sitting in the stands one game a weekend and in some cases both.

And I don't see things changing in the near future. Maybe I am wrong.

I get this got them there recently but in large part in got there due to great leadership!! I just don't see that changing after this year. I am actually scared to think of who the captains might be next year.

[observer]

As mulefarm stated it is a tangled difficult web with implications and unfortunate outside influences beyond this currently assembled team. Is the pressure so great these coaches can't do what they want? Can't build the best team without outside influences?

Mankato has done ok with 20 year olds. UMD is older. BSU and SCSU too.

Michealson is a good example. He was the best 94 when he was 14. Not at 20. They're signing 14 year olds. I'll say more than half (don't dispute, we're seeing it now) will not be the best players in their age group when they're 20.

Cammarata came in on age. Bischoff, Brodzinski, Lietteri, Collins and Glover too. Even Skjei and Fasching. Did Fasching even accelerate like Bjugstad? Johnson spent a year after HS in juniors. As Tigers33 says, they're to young.

[Sats81]

As mulefarm stated it is a tangled difficult web with implications and unfortunate outside influences beyond this currently assembled team. Is the pressure so great these coaches can't do what they want? Can't build the best team without outside influences?

Mankato has done ok with 20 year olds. UMD is older. BSU and SCSU too.

Michealson is a good example. He was the best 94 when he was 14. Not at 20. They're signing 14 year olds. I'll say more than half (don't dispute, we're seeing it now) will not be the best players in their age group when they're 20.


Cammarata came in on age. Bischoff, Brodzinski, Lietteri, Collins and Glover too. Even Skjei and Fasching. Did Fasching even accelerate like Bjugstad? Johnson spent a year after HS in juniors. As Tigers33 says, they're to young.

Hit nail on the head here....and we are seeing this more and more now. There are so many kids who are late bloomers and get no hype/attention when they are 14-18, they go grind out a few years of juniors, grow and sharpen their game. They come into a Mankato or UMD or St Cloud with a chip on their shoulder ready to prove naysayers wrong. Whereas, majority of this gopher team was best player in their age group growing up, always made select teams, got recruited young, etc. They come to the U and if they aren't a top 6 forward, they are lost. Don't know how to grind, or fight for a spot. Dare I say, a lot of these guys are more than soft.

Fasching left AV after his soph year, played 2 years in Ann Arbor and came into U.

[Gopher Blog]

Other than UMD's title, none of those in-state schools have done anything more significant in recent years with those older recruits than the Gophers have so I am not sure that is much of a point worth making.

Bemidji? lol. What have they done since they finally got to the WCHA?

SCSU had a nice little run but it was mainly driven by a great year by a guy that won the Hobey (thanks to a medical redshirt season btw). How's their older guy strategy working out for them now?

Mankato? Let's see what they do this year before lauding them for anything. They have a ton of upperclassmen right now. Let's see how they do when that group is gone in a year. You gonna praise them for their ways when they drop back to their traditional mediocrity?

The last two seasons, UMD had two .500 or less records. Were you praising them then too?

You can win with more than one strategy but I'd take my chances on landing the high end guys that are a bit younger (and supplement it with a few older guys). There is a reason why certain programs are contending more consistently than others and many of them are the programs that can recruit the top young kids.

[mulefarm]

You definitely need high end skill to win at any level. When the U can get a tough to play against bottom 6 forwards and 2-3 tough D, with their top end talent they will always contend. What the other state schools don't have is enough of the top end guys to usually make a deep run in the NCAA's. For the majority of the state school kids this is their NHL, where many of the U kids feel this is just a step in getting to the NHL.

[Gopher Blog]

So instead of bringing them in tell them to go play ushl one year AFTER high school.

Glover and Collins played 100+ games vs. USHL/International/NCAA competition before they even hit campus. You can't expect them to commit to your school if you tell them to wait another full year after all that hockey I mentioned. Especially after being drafted by NHL teams that will want their development to be pushed forward. That's naive.

Steven Johnson was already 20 years old and had played 100+ games on the NAHL/USHL level. You want to delay him even longer? He'd say "no thanks" and go elsewhere. Again... you're being naive.

Most of these Gopher recruits come out as 18 or 19 year olds but the vast majority of them were also playing in the USHL full time before coming. They show good things on that level in many cases. They proved something on those levels. It's not like they are doing what Woog did and exclusively recruiting 18 year old kids that played nothing other than MN HS hockey before coming to college.

You can say "push them back longer" but then I can guarantee you that they will decide to go to some other high profile school that gives them the chance right away. You do realize that these players get the same kind of offers from the UNDs, Michigans, Notre Dames, and BCs of the world too, right? It's not like it is just the Gophers that are willing to do this.

I suppose the comeback will be to "reject those players that won't defer and go find other guys". But then guess what happens? Fans like you will see those guys we turned away start to succeed at other schools and then you'll bitch about how the Gophers "missed out" on those kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It is easy to sit behind your computer and second guess when it isn't your neck on the line. But the coaches have to take calculated risks and live with it. Sometimes that means you take your lumps as some young guys gain experience their first season in college and then gain the benefits their last two or three seasons in college.

Just because you start college older doesn't guarantee you'll be more successful. There are plenty of guys that came into college hockey at 20 that don't amount to anything significant.

This year's team is failing not because of when players came to college. They are failing because of chemistry issues. Something that can happen no matter how much juniors time each player gets.

[Tigers33]

Yep you know everything don't you!? I didn't mention Steve Johnson cause those are the guys they need. So this was supposed to be Lucia's big year and nothing will end up happening. Now let's look at next year.
No Reilly
No skjei
No Boyd
No rau
No ambroz
No isaackson
No warning
No Marshall

Some people speculate fasching could return but I'm not so sure and some
say how Wilcox just lost lots of money which also may be true. Not so sure what to think of those two.

People are asking you questions on your opinion...here is one for you.

Tell me what you think about Lucia's recruiting?

[BodyShots]

So instead of bringing them in tell them to go play ushl one year AFTER high school.

Glover and Collins played 100+ games vs. USHL/International/NCAA competition before they even hit campus. You can't expect them to commit to your school if you tell them to wait another full year after all that hockey I mentioned. Especially after being drafted by NHL teams that will want their development to be pushed forward. That's naive.

Steven Johnson was already 20 years old and had played 100+ games on the NAHL/USHL level. You want to delay him even longer? He'd say "no thanks" and go elsewhere. Again... you're being naive.

Most of these Gopher recruits come out as 18 or 19 year olds but the vast majority of them were also playing in the USHL full time before coming. They show good things on that level in many cases. They proved something on those levels. It's not like they are doing what Woog did and exclusively recruiting 18 year old kids that played nothing other than MN HS hockey before coming to college.

You can say "push them back longer" but then I can guarantee you that they will decide to go to some other high profile school that gives them the chance right away. You do realize that these players get the same kind of offers from the UNDs, Michigans, Notre Dames, and BCs of the world too, right? It's not like it is just the Gophers that are willing to do this.

I suppose the comeback will be to "reject those players that won't defer and go find other guys". But then guess what happens? Fans like you will see those guys we turned away start to succeed at other schools and then you'll bitch about how the Gophers "missed out" on those kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It is easy to sit behind your computer and second guess when it isn't your neck on the line. But the coaches have to take calculated risks and live with it. Sometimes that means you take your lumps as some young guys gain experience their first season in college and then gain the benefits their last two or three seasons in college.

Just because you start college older doesn't guarantee you'll be more successful. There are plenty of guys that came into college hockey at 20 that don't amount to anything significant.

This year's team is failing not because of when players came to college. They are failing because of chemistry issues. Something that can happen no matter how much juniors time each player gets.

Agree with your comments above. Well said.

[BodyShots]

Yep you know everything don't you!? I didn't mention Steve Johnson cause those are the guys they need. So this was supposed to be Lucia's big year and nothing will end up happening. Now let's look at next year.
No Reilly
No skjei
No Boyd
No rau
No ambroz
No isaackson
No warning
No Marshall

Some people speculate fasching could return but I'm not so sure and some
say how Wilcox just lost lots of money which also may be true. Not so sure what to think of those two.

People are asking you questions on your opinion...here is one for you.

Tell me what you think about Lucia's recruiting?

Looking at your list above, I was very excited when he recruited all of them. After watching them for 3 or 4 years, some pan out, and some don't. Last year most of them looked good, this year has been a disappointment.

[DrGaf]

Yep you know everything don't you!? I didn't mention Steve Johnson cause those are the guys they need. So this was supposed to be Lucia's big year and nothing will end up happening. Now let's look at next year.
No Reilly
No skjei
No Boyd
No rau
No ambroz
No isaackson
No warning
No Marshall

Some people speculate fasching could return but I'm not so sure and some
say how Wilcox just lost lots of money which also may be true. Not so sure what to think of those two.

People are asking you questions on your opinion...here is one for you.

Tell me what you think about Lucia's recruiting?

Looking at your list above, I was very excited when he recruited all of them. After watching them for 3 or 4 years, some pan out, and some don't. Last year most of them looked good, this year has been a disappointment.

Obvious statement of the year: Hockey is not basketball

Now that being said, it is difficult to reload every year in hockey ... even for the greatest college hockey program of ALL TIME ... my alma mater the U of M Golden Gophers.

Now, with that also being said ... Lucia needs to quit focusing on recruiting a bunch of these entitled minnesota hockey top end players. From people in the 'know'. A couple coach friends of mine that have coached these kids in HS and Elite, these kids are not what Herb Brooks would call a team. They're not a team and it shows on the ice.

Lucia needs to find some quality 3-4 year players, save some spots for kids that need another 3-4 years in juniors. We have no size, no bulk, no net presence, no board presence. We skate a bunch of kids that can't hang with the young men that are showing up in the other programs.

/ends rant

[observer]

Gopher Blog, gotta love the maroon colored glasses.

We're talking here and now. Gophs were last place in the NS Cup. The team that wasn't there, SCSU, has spanked them too.

Just because you start college older doesn't guarantee you'll be more successful.

And what we're suggesting here is the same players a year or two older would be more successful. They're showing that playing against 22, 23 and 24 year olds can be a bitch. You mentioned chemistry. Good one but to vague. Who's in charge of that?

I will say though the biggest problems for both the Gophers and the Wild is the same. Both were getting amazing goaltending a year ago and both have dropped to the bottom in goaltending this year. Both teams started the season thinking goaltending was rock solid. A lot starts there.

[MNHockeyFan]

In depth article in today's Strib:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/

[Tigers33]

This gopher team is so bad to watch!! Lots of people ripped some of these guys but I would much rather watch:
Haula
Budish
Bjugstad
Alt
Helgeson
Hansen

Etc...

[Tigers33]

Wilcox needs to get sat just the sake of resting him if anything.

[Gopher Blog]

Yep you know everything don't you!?

Simply using facts.

Tell me what you think about Lucia's recruiting?

I think recruiting at the U is an interesting topic.

On one hand, you have the luxury of getting many of the best prospects that the state produces. Not all of them but a healthy chunk.

On the other hand, it is challenging because it puts great pressure on a staff. The fans demand that they do extremely well in this area and any mistakes they make get magnified.

This is particularly the case if they don't go after a kid that goes on to another local school and does well. We see endless amounts of comments on this board alone about whether the Gophers should have gone after a certain kid. People make comments like, "I think the Gophers made a big mistake on not getting this kid". The problem is there are a lot of prospects in this state and only 18 scholarships to give. Not to mention, we don't have JV teams to feed the varsity like they did in Herbie's days at the U.

As for their current recruiting pipeline, it is very strong. Many of the players they landed were in very high demand among the big name programs in D1. Hopefully Brock Boeser gets added to the mix soon too.

Will they all pan out into studs? Of course not. No program/coach hits a home run on every kid. Some will be stars and some will need to find a role. After all, there is only so much time in prime spots to go around and (as I mentioned above) you only have 18 scholarships to utilize.

Of course, the fact that nobody is capable of always getting it right won't stop the "keyboard coaches" from using 20/20 hindsight to point out mistakes and act like they know better. Everybody recognizes that. These message boards are meant for opinions. Good and bad ones.

I had this conversation on this year's team elsewhere and the reality is you aren't going to have a complete team every year. Some years you will have more skill than others. Some years you will have more grit/toughness than others. Obviously they do the best they can to plan and have as complete of a team as possible. But there will always be a thing or two that isn't quite as good one year as it was the prior year.

I definitely don't disagree that this year's team is lacking some of the grit they need. But that is more of a case of dealing with a year to year cycle than it is a recruiting problem. If they have a recruiting problem, then it isn't a bad problem to have given they had won 3 conference titles in a row and had 2 Frozen Four trips in the last 3 seasons. Unfortunately not an NCAA title too but pretty good results on the whole.

[Gopher Blog]

Gopher Blog, gotta love the maroon colored glasses.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. I have hardly been saying everything is rosy this year. This team has been underachieving given the ability it has on it and I am totally in agreement that Lucia should have heat on him for it. In my opinion, this is the most disappointing team he's had at the U (given the expectations heading into the season).

At the same time, I don't think it is fair to completely turn a blind eye to the fact that the prior three seasons had some very good results.

Of course, the season isn't over either and they could shock the hell out of all of us. But I highly doubt that is going to occur.

[Tigers33]

Do you agree that right now the best thing might be for Wilcox to just rest a game? It can't hurt.

Also, I like how you said the last three years were a success. I notice the haula and bjugstad haters seem quiet. I think those people would take those guys in a heart beat right now.

I completely agree with you when it comes to recruiting at the U of M. I was thinking more along the lines of the effort don lucia puts into recruiting. I have heard first hand he is pretty lazy when it comes to recruiting and I think at times it shows.

I put most the blame on the players for this season but in the end he is responsible for the players. It was hard to watch that game last night. I can't count the defensive breakdowns that this team makes game after game.

[mulefarm]

I think he made Guentzel use the John Hill defensive system!

[Gopher Blog]

Do you agree that right now the best thing might be for Wilcox to just rest a game? It can't hurt.

I can understand the thinking behind this but is the alternative going to improve things? I'm not at practice so I can't say how Lehr would do. I have heard that the players aren't real confident in the guys behind Wilcox this year. If true, I can see why the coaches are just throwing him out there even if he isn't playing nearly as well as he did the prior few years.

If you want to point to an error, one you might be able to point to is they may not have done a good enough job finding a goalie to continue to push Wilcox this year. Tough to say since we haven't seen Lehr much.

I completely agree with you when it comes to recruiting at the U of M. I was thinking more along the lines of the effort don lucia puts into recruiting. I have heard first hand he is pretty lazy when it comes to recruiting and I think at times it shows.

"Lazy" is a pretty ambiguous definition. I don't know the travel schedule or the scouting work put in by all the other head coaches out there in order to make a fair comparison. Considering most of the recruits come from the state borders, I'm sure they probably don't put in the same overall mileage as some teams but that's mainly being fortunate that we have so much local talent that comes here.

The assistants in every program are the ones that put in the heavy mileage in recruiting anyway.

I will say that I do wonder if the head coach has the same fire he once had. When April hits, he will have been at the U for 16 years. I do think it might be time to take an administrative role at the school and let somebody else take over the head coach role. Just renew the energy of things. If they don't do that, they can still succeed. But I am thinking long term.

As one Gopher parent reminded me, Lucia himself once said that a coach should probably change addresses every ten years or so before his message/welcome has worn out. Of course, he is probably like a lot of us... good at doling out advice but not as good taking it.

[Tigers33]

This is the prime reason why Wilcox should sit and get some rest. These games don't mean much, and he looks pathetic!!