AGAINST the GRAIN

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:52 pm

JLS 81, Of course they could. Could Moorehead? Well,they will, as has been thoroughly briefed in another thread. I dont understand this have to win 3 games argument. Only one team will anyway. Does that make the ones who dont class A caliber? Get on the right side of the grain. Geeeez.

inthecorners · Post by **inthecorners** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:57 pm

MN Boys Hockey Website Class A Rankings 1. Warroad 16-2-0 2. Breck (5A) 16-1-1 3. St. Louis Park (5A) 13-4-0 4. Blake (5A) 15-1-0 5. Orono 14-2-1 6. BSM (5A) 11-4-2 7. South St. Paul 13-2-0 8. LOW 15-2-1 9. Totino-Grace (5A) 9-7-0 10. Roch. Lourdes (5A) 8-6-2 I think section 5A is probably as strong as any AA section. These teams are challenging themselves by scheduling many of the other projected top teams A or AA for their non-conference games and scrimmages each season and they are having their share of success. Look at SLP, they play in the Classic Lake which has to be considered one of the top confrences in the state! Talking about playing many tough games in a row these teams do that just as much as the AA teams. Why? Because they play against each other. So my conclussion is, I don't think their road is any easier than the top 10 AA teams. I feel these teams deserve their recognition as quality teams whether they are A or AA.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:14 pm

Even right wing AA supremists such as petey agree that there are quality teams in class A. He and others are suggesting that even so, the A title is a little less of a trophy because you dont have to beat say.. ..Jefferson to get it. My question is :If petey and the powder blue shirts are wrong , why do we have 2 classes?

slphockey · Post by **slphockey** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:17 pm

I say u put the A state winner Agains the AA state winner and get a true state champ. I also think anyone of those top 10 A section 5A teams would have a great game and beat most AA teams

hockeyhair2 · Post by **hockeyhair2** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:44 pm

I like the idea of A and AA champs playing off or instead of the great 8 how it is formated now, have the same process but have A and AA kids separated onto teams and at the end the best A players are Playing against the best AA.

BIAFP · Post by **BIAFP** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:54 pm

How about the "A" champ plays the losers of the consolation semi's for a chance to become AA the next year?

goaliecrease · Post by **goaliecrease** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:14 pm

It seems to me that the whole A & AA debate is much like college sports. I'll take college wrestling (sorry to bring that sport up). For example, there are three divisions in college wrestling. There are some wrestlers in Division II and III that can (and do) beat Division I competition. I stress: Some (possibly the top two or three in each weight). Most cannot. This is why they are in the smaller divisions. My point is, that in every division there are a few competitors that can compete (and at times beat) those in the division above them. As a whole, however, Division II and III wrestling is not as challenging throughout. The same goes for MN high school hockey. There are a few teams in Class A that can compete with AA, but exactly that...some. Not most. So, Warroad (who whomever) is the best in their division. Like being a Division III champion in the NCAA: there's no shame in that.

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:30 pm

joe, My question is a very legitimate question. You have been going to state tournaments for a while and should know full well teams like Anoka and Eden Prarie are a handful for teams with 2 lines. The Warrior personnel shortage was raised by slapshooter, If they are a legitimate three line team well that is quite another story. 2 line teams however are a challenge for any club in the modern era of hockey when attempting to keep up in the new 17 minute periods.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:15 pm

Good point JLS, last year Anoka was, by us so called experts, a huge underdog to the much more talented Holy Angels team. As was Roseville, though to a lesser degree, to Eden Prairie, but both Anoka and Roseville wore down their opponents by constantly and consistently sending fresh bodies out on the ice. Watching Anoka was a thing of beauty especially since my seats were smack dab in the middle of the Holy Angels adults...hah hah. Waaroads ability to throw out 2 quality line serves it well in A because very few A teams can match up two lines, but the better AA teams can. Maybe hockey is becoming more of a numbers game like football, one year doesn't make a trend, but we will just have to wait and see. Just to throw some salt in the A backers, since 5A is so good, and most would say better than say 1AA, here is some food for thought. BSM 1 Rochester Century 0 ot John Marshall 4 Totino Grace 3 ot Blake 2 Owatonna 1 ot So the vaunted 5A power houses are 2-1 with all the games going to overtime against the worst AA section. Now to parlay that into we'd be competitive at the state tourney may strtch it just a bit.

slapshooter · Post by **slapshooter** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:27 pm

JLS 81, Warroad dressed and skated 3 lines that I noticed. Two lines most of the game though. One kid is out from a snowmobile accident and it looks to me like he will be for the season. I'm not sure but I thought someone said that he was 3rd in points before the mishap. The other two I am told are also important contributers to Warroads full strength. I was pointing out that even with their injuries, they proved that with the talent at hand and the coaching instincts of Eades, they can still cut the mustard. Moorhead, I was told, like to skate four lines and are well suited to at least skate three on a regular basis. Actually four according to some of their fans. Both of these teams have tons of heart but Warroad was a real threat throughout and dominated the third as tired as their fans said they looked by then. Maybe if Moorhead could have stayed out of the penalty box it would have been different but the level of play on both sides was high. Coaching, Heart, and Talent can make a huge difference. L<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /alien.gif ALT="0]"> E, SL<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> PSH<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> TER. (...a legend in his <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> wn mind...)

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:57 pm

joe, goldy, slapshooter, Thanks for your insight guys and that is exactly what I wanted to get from you(valued insight). A few old grizzled veterens can provide their insight on the debate over clubs with heart and soul but essentially stuck with 2 power packed lines and lacking a solid third line. I raised the 2001 Greenway as an example as I do think that club was exaclty where Warroad sounds to be this season. Two great lines, great goaltending. I wish the Warriors well and cannot waite to see them play in March. slapshooter if the Warriors are stuck at 2 solid lines for February and March can they sustain the level of play? Goldy your 1AA is not too shabby here in 2003-2004.

slapshooter · Post by **slapshooter** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:25 pm

JLS 81, Depends on, just like every other team. Whenever anyone gets sick hurt or worse the dynamics of any team would change. Any loss of talent is a big deal but if Oshie for instance goes down or Gabe Harren, or Sorrells, or Hardwick, Olimb or anybody else it will significantly affect the odds for a Championship for them. Especially Oshie. Ryan Clukey for Moorhead? Kyle Krahn for Warroad? Important losses if you ask me. Warroads whole defensive corps is absolutely essential by the same token in a quest for the ' Title '. They are excellent, as is Moorheads corps as well. Sorry if I left out any names, but you see my point. Holy Angels, one of my favorite teams, without Frazee? We'll see. They could do it but it won't be easy. Even with Frazee it would be tough. Who wants it most? That's who gets it! L<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /alien.gif ALT="0]"> E, SL<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> PSH<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> TER. (...a legend in his <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> wn mind...)

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:36 pm

JLS 81, There have been AA teams that have come in and won with 2 lines. Blaines' third line did not touch the ice a couple of years ago. It depends on what you have. My point earlier was that no matter who you are, winning 3 in a row is hard against the best. Goldy313... oh , thats old news. HM and Edina fell last week to BSM and SLP. That goes against the grain and changes everything.

slapshooter · Post by **slapshooter** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:38 am

Oh yeah, what about this? It's 36 bel <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> w outside my kitchen window and that's a c <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> ld hard fact ! Here's another c <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> ld hard fact for ya to chew on. According to the conference standings etc. page, at this fine forum, at this early hour, the facts are that the top SIX teams in Class AA have amassed 85 wins collectively and suffered 14 losses up until at least yesterday. Likewise, the top SIX teams in Class A have also amassed 85 wins collectively and suffered 14 losses as well, up until at least yesterday. Ties don't count, because I did not include the only undefeated team in the state to date, who, as you should know by now, is Wadena /Deer Creek, another Class A team . Why that negates the ties is beyond me but it sounds pretty good to say it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> What about that? What are y<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/sick.gif ALT=":x"> u f<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/sick.gif ALT=":x"> lks gonna say now? L<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /alien.gif ALT="0]"> E, SL<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> PSH<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> TER. (.a L Le Leg Legend in hi his <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> wn m mi min mind.) (.....m ma man i it it' it's c co col c <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> ld up here....)

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:33 pm

Well, that pretty much seals it. SS has uncovered the cold, hard facts. Pretty difficult for them to be anything else in this weather. It was -24 when I hit the bricks this AM. Even in the balmy metro area it is just bone chilling. Which is how the radical right wing AA supremists must feel when faced with slappy's research. This my friends changes everything

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:56 pm

joe, That Blaine championship was the only tourny I have missed since 1987. Thanks for sharing that very interesting tidbit on Blaine going with two lines. That sir is a major accomplishment to do with todays, bigger, stronger, faster skaters. Well done. slapshooter I do appreciate your insight on the Warrior club. Good comments all.

petey1321 · Post by **petey1321** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:58 pm

Right, because we all know that Orono has played some tough teams and done really well. Same with Warroad for that matter. 0-2 vs. the top 10? Great work. Tulane was undefeated in football a few years ago. I guess by your logic they were the best team in football, even if they never had to beat anybody.

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:54 pm

joe, Not that it is any real big earth shattering deal but for my take on this as they stand right now I am in the radical right wing AA supremists, pinhead camp as I still think the best teams are in AA. Could be persuaded the other way but do not have any clear cut ways to see my way through the convoluted MSHSL state format. A teams playing AA teams to a 1 goal game does have some merit. Maybe the discussion is two part. As still top to bottom AA can field a better end of season tourney. End of season AA vs. A head to head tally may stake claim to your "against the grain" suppostion. In that case perhaps the gap is narrowing. No matter how you slice out the debate I will ontinue to watch the single A tourny and used my hard earned money to get to those games heck it is Minnesota High School hockey after all!!!

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:19 pm

JLS 81, I dont know what to do with you. You cling to section 7 even when faced with the facts of modern life. You join up with the likes of these powder blue shirt ,AA supremists and refuse to go "against the grain" even when presented with irrefutable evidence that everything has changed. Boy oh boy. Any way, I dont think anyone is saying that class A is better. Only that there are some pretty good teams that maybe dont get the respect they deserve which, of course, goes against the grain of a good many folk herein.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:30 pm

Joe, what happens if Cretin comes roaring out of section 2? Do you quickly have to abandon the section 8 kick? Luckily sections 2 and 8 are in opposite brackets, but what if?

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:03 pm

goldy313, My opinions may change from time to time but never the fact that I am right. You kidin me, Id jump ship like a drunkin sailor. But if by the grace of God such a thing would occur, look at who their quarter final foe would be.....oops.

scheids316 · Post by **scheids316** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:33 am

Does anyone know who it was that got hurt for the Warriors? Was it Krahn?

WarroadWarrior · Post by **WarroadWarrior** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:07 pm

Yep...Krahn was the kid involved in a snowmobile accident

HOCKEYMOM · Post by **HOCKEYMOM** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:56 pm

If I remember correctly, didn't Warroad lose two games this year to class AA teams? Why, slapshooter, would you say that Warroad could take the AA title? I think not.

Post by **east hockey** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:05 pm

Uh oh, Slap. Watch yourself. Psst...she has a pretty valid point; but then, that's as seen by my distorted protestant eyes <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Lee

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

AGAINST the GRAIN

Re: Could Warroad Do It?

Section 5A

Re: Section 5A

A vs AA Final

Against

A vs AA Final

A&AA

re: Could Warroad Do It?

Re: re: Could Warroad Do It?

Coaching, Heart, and Talent...by SS

Thanks Guys

Depends On....by SS

Its hard to win no matter what

Oh yeah, what about this? 85 to 85...by SS

Cold, hard and against the grain

Confirmed

Re: Cold, hard and against the grain

Confirmed

The grain of things to come

Re: The grain of things to come

Re: The grain of things to come

Warroad Injury

Krahn

warroad vs class AA

Re: warroad vs class AA