Elite II Rosters

[hockeyboys]

GR3343 I couldn't agree more. You are correct - the Elite II group is not getting the top "other" players who were passed over by the Elite league. It could be fore a number of reasons, including the ones you have given. There are others as well. I think it started out that players didn't go because they felt slighted by the Elite League. Now it has gone so far that players are choosing not to try out because the league is filled with JV and Bantam players.
I would like to see the problem of both the Elite and Elite II be corrected. I believe it all starts with the selection of the Elite league players. Most are invited, with only a few selections made at the tryouts. I know there is the argument that good players will always be found - but this is not the case in this league when a very, very small group of guys sit around and talk about all the players from 150 High School prgrams. This is over 2500 players. There is absolutly NO way these guys have seen all these teams. So, evaluations are done by heresay and reputation. If there were real tryouts by independent evaluators, with scores given to players after the tryouts - the teams would look much different than they do now.
I believe the Elite II league success would follow.

[keepmeoutofit]

might be that some kids dont try out because they dont like the uncertainty of trying out. many 'top players' look average in a bigger pool of talent.

[seek & destroy]

might be that some kids dont try out because they dont like the uncertainty of trying out. many 'top players' look average in a bigger pool of talent.

I agree that that may be a factor. I know of several kids who found it hard to live with the fact that they didn't make Elite league and who would be devastated if then they didn't make Elite II. Rather than take a chance they didn't even try.

The easy way out of that fear of failure is to not tryout and then talk about how bad the league is and how they don't have the right players etc.. For some it is far easier to make fun of the players that did give it a shot then possibly have their ego bruised by not being selected.

I can't speak for Elite league but of the players that took the chance to try out for Elite II, I think the league did a good job of getting most of the good ones.

[Dazed&Confused]

In my opinion the elite 1 has become a luanching pad for elite underclassmen to the junior ranks. A little the opposite of its intent.
Also in my opinion the elite 2 has nothing elite about it. Although it does provide a chance for bantams to get a taste of highscool JV hockey.

[hockeyboys]

Agreed - Elite II did a very good job of taking the best players who tried out. And also did an admirable job in some of the sections in working hard to get more to go to the tryouts. It is a very good league - take a look at the scores and see the number of ties - very competitive. Those kids are developing their games in that league.
Everyone seems to have an opinion of why players didn't try out. I think your ideas are as valid as the others tht have been presented here. I'm sure that there were lots of different reasons many players didn't try out. But most of those reasons are not good ones - and I know many of those players would like to be playing right now.
The premise of the Elite league from the beginning was to have a highly competitive league with the very best high school players, get an additional 20+ games so the players would have relatively the same number of games as players going to Juniors. Seeing the number of players going off to juniors and AAA programs, has this really happened?
And then Elite II was supposed to pick up the rest of those players - mostly juniors who likely be Elite League players the next year. Has this really happened? Again - probably not.
Somone much smarter than me should work on ways to fix the system. And this is not meant to be critical of all the hard work these organizations have put in. But, like in business, sometimes change is necessary to react to what has happened in the past, and create a more clear direction for the future.

[Neutron 14]

Although it does provide a chance for bantams to get a taste of highscool JV hockey.

[watchdog]

i have one son that moves to hs next year. i havent decided yet on letting him tryout for elite 2. i think their maybe better routes to take to get him ready for hs like junior camps and midget AAA camps. i live close to the canadien border and the canadiens have alot of good junior camps within a few hours drive. which would be the best route now keep in mind these camps are usually around 75.00 dollars.

[Can't Never Tried]

i have one son that moves to hs next year. i havent decided yet on letting him tryout for elite 2. i think their maybe better routes to take to get him ready for hs like junior camps and midget AAA camps. i live close to the canadien border and the canadiens have alot of good junior camps within a few hours drive. which would be the best route now keep in mind these camps are usually around 75.00 dollars.

So these Canadian Jr. Camps are 75.00?? aren't most T1 and T2 Jr. camps 250.00 to 350.00 ?

Are they run the same? 1 practice and then 4-5 games? or more like practice clinics?

If your by the border your going to do a ton of driving for this league, even a close game is a long drive for you!

[GR3343]

i have one son that moves to hs next year. i havent decided yet on letting him tryout for elite 2. i think their maybe better routes to take to get him ready for hs like junior camps and midget AAA camps. i live close to the canadien border and the canadiens have alot of good junior camps within a few hours drive. which would be the best route now keep in mind these camps are usually around 75.00 dollars.

So these Canadian Jr. Camps are 75.00?? aren't most T1 and T2 Jr. camps 250.00 to 350.00 ?

Are they run the same? 1 practice and then 4-5 games? or more like practice clinics?

If your by the border your going to do a ton of driving for this league, even a close game is a long drive for you!

Don't worry about him, he's got nothing but time

[watchdog]

why would a junior camp be 250.00 when they want to see kids? the ones ive heard of are just that for a schedule the details i havent confirmed. what ive been told their run just as you said one practice 4-5 games. yeah and these camps are alot closer than driving down to the cities for elite 2. thats not really a factor i have free places to stay in the cities so the money is probley a wash. the factor is which will be the better to get a kid ready for hs.

[Can't Never Tried]

why would a junior camp be 250.00 when they want to see kids? the ones ive heard of are just that for a schedule the details i havent confirmed. what ive been told their run just as you said one practice 4-5 games. yeah and these camps are alot closer than driving down to the cities for elite 2. thats not really a factor i have free places to stay in the cities so the money is probley a wash. the factor is which will be the better to get a kid ready for hs.

I'll take a shot at this and say to raise money?

[Pucknutz69]

The biggest thing I see this year is the schools not supporting the Elite II. Last year Sec 4A/AA had many WBL kids on it, this year not a 1 at tryouts. There were 9 defensemen on the team and at some games they all would show-up and one or two would play forward for a period. Some were not happy.

Which leads me to this, What is the main purpose of these leagues?

In my eyes it is to give the HS kids that want more games, a competitive place to play vs. leaving to play else where. Based on some of the people at the games I talk with, they are all expecting a lot more out of it. The parents want scouts to fill the stands, the players want to skate every shift, every game and win. I have yet to see 1 player dominate any game this year, each team is pretty competitive in it's own right.

Take it for what it is. More games at a competitive level, because that's what it is. You aren't getting a D1 scholarship, the Stanley Cup won't be there and it doesn't give your kid a leg up on the Mr Hockey award because you played in the Elite II league. It's more games bottom line.

[BodyShots]

The biggest thing I see this year is the schools not supporting the Elite II. Last year Sec 4A/AA had many WBL kids on it, this year not a 1 at tryouts. There were 9 defensemen on the team and at some games they all would show-up and one or two would play forward for a period. Some were not happy.

Which leads me to this, What is the main purpose of these leagues?

Is this league also suppose to be a stepping stone to the Elite 1 the following year? I am not aware that any of the WBL kids were offered a tryout for the Elite 1 after playing Elite II the previous year. Even though a couple of them were All Conference and Honorable Mention in the very competitve SEC.

[Can't Never Tried]

The biggest thing I see this year is the schools not supporting the Elite II. Last year Sec 4A/AA had many WBL kids on it, this year not a 1 at tryouts. There were 9 defensemen on the team and at some games they all would show-up and one or two would play forward for a period. Some were not happy.

Which leads me to this, What is the main purpose of these leagues?

Is this league also suppose to be a stepping stone to the Elite 1 the following year? I am not aware that any of the WBL kids were offered a tryout for the Elite 1 after playing Elite II the previous year. Even though a couple of them were All Conference and Honorable Mention in the very competitve SEC.

No! these leagues have nothing to do with each other ...period.

[BodyShots]

The biggest thing I see this year is the schools not supporting the Elite II. Last year Sec 4A/AA had many WBL kids on it, this year not a 1 at tryouts. There were 9 defensemen on the team and at some games they all would show-up and one or two would play forward for a period. Some were not happy.

Which leads me to this, What is the main purpose of these leagues?

Is this league also suppose to be a stepping stone to the Elite 1 the following year? I am not aware that any of the WBL kids were offered a tryout for the Elite 1 after playing Elite II the previous year. Even though a couple of them were All Conference and Honorable Mention in the very competitve SEC.

No! these leagues have nothing to do with each other ...period.

Thank you for the clarification. I guess Elite II is banking on the Elite I prestige with its name. Very misleading!

[Can't Never Tried]

Is this league also suppose to be a stepping stone to the Elite 1 the following year? I am not aware that any of the WBL kids were offered a tryout for the Elite 1 after playing Elite II the previous year. Even though a couple of them were All Conference and Honorable Mention in the very competitve SEC.

No! these leagues have nothing to do with each other ...period.

Thank you for the clarification. I guess Elite II is banking on the Elite I prestige with its name. Very misleading!

That's about it!
There are some very good players in the league, and it serves a purpose.
That's about as complimentary as I'll get.

[stxnpux]

I believe eliteII was originally intended to be a developmental league to prep the younger players for the upcoming hs season. I don't believe that anyone ever intentionally tried to mislead players/parents or scouts that they were/are in anyway affiliated with the upper midwest elite league.

From the games i have watched this year the league is doing what it was designed to do. I have noticed a dramatic improvement in the overall game from the beginning of the season until now.

Are there other options? For some maybe. But depending on your location in the state many don't have a good/viable AAA option available to them.

[Pucknutz69]

The biggest thing I see this year is the schools not supporting the Elite II. Last year Sec 4A/AA had many WBL kids on it, this year not a 1 at tryouts. There were 9 defensemen on the team and at some games they all would show-up and one or two would play forward for a period. Some were not happy.

Which leads me to this, What is the main purpose of these leagues?

Is this league also suppose to be a stepping stone to the Elite 1 the following year? I am not aware that any of the WBL kids were offered a tryout for the Elite 1 after playing Elite II the previous year. Even though a couple of them were All Conference and Honorable Mention in the very competitve SEC.

No! these leagues have nothing to do with each other ...period.

They are 2 seperate groups but there is a number of kids playing in Elite 1 that did play on Elite II teams. Abd if you read the web site you will see part if the goal is to make it a stepping stone.

[HockeyHigh]

They are 2 seperate groups but there is a number of kids playing in Elite 1 that did play on Elite II teams. Abd if you read the web site you will see part if the goal is to make it a stepping stone.

However, Elite I's completely removes the capability of making Elite II's a stepping stone. Making the Elite I's tryouts invite only (rather than a Senior 'open tryout' like someone mentioned, or even a 'Junior/Senior Varsity' open tryout) makes it difficult for a player that should be in Elite I's, but just doesn't have his name out there, to get on an Elite I team. As 'Keepmeoutofit' said in his post, some of the top players look average in a huge pool of talent (AKA the 150-175 teams that these players are coming from during the season, including from ND/Wisc, etc), and there's no possible way that they're getting the best out of the best, or the players that really do want to play in Elite I's.
Elite I's makes getting accepted to teams far too political, rather than being based on raw skill.

[myhockey]

What is really funny is the fact that Elite one made alot of mistakes in the tryouts. I wonder why the moorehead goalie was playing elite two and now he is elite one???? I think that Elite one is trying to use Elite two as stepping stone for Elite one...Or is it if the coach for Elite one screwed up and took the wrong kid and now wants to better his team by taking from the Elite two group????? Food for thought!!!!!

[wannagototherink]

What is really funny is the fact that Elite one made alot of mistakes in the tryouts. I wonder why the moorehead goalie was playing elite two and now he is elite one???? I think that Elite one is trying to use Elite two as stepping stone for Elite one...Or is it if the coach for Elite one screwed up and took the wrong kid and now wants to better his team by taking from the Elite two group????? Food for thought!!!!!

Elite I was originally started to give Jr. and Sr. players a chance to add additional quality competition to their schedules prior to the high school season. It was done as an attempt to stop the mass exodus of players to the USHL and North American League, because college coaches were saying that the Minnesota High School player was losing ground on the rest of the country due to the shorter season they are allowed to play. Example of course is the 25 game High School season vs. the 60 - 80 game schedule of a Midget AAA team. The Elite II league was started to give PRIMARILY, sophomores and Juniors in high school an option to play in the fall with the hopes that someday the two leagues could work with one another. I am not sure of the current rules, but during the first couple seasons anyway Elite II limited the amount of seniors on the roster to three. I suppose in an attempt to raise the level of competition for the league as a whole they allowed seniors, but keeping it mostly as a developemental league for younger high school players. Unfortunately, the Midwest Elite League has been reluctant to align themselves in any way with the Elite II league. Right or wrong it just has never happened. In any event, the Elite II league has done what it set out to do. It has given those younger players a chance to develope in the fall to make their transition to high school hockey a bit smoother. Elite II has been very well run and organized. They have provided quality coaches for their teams, worked hard to give them a competitive schedule, while still making it possible for these young athletes to stay involved in their fall sports in their respective high schools. I'm sure you could find area's in which the Elite II league could improve, and it has been my experience that the league is very good about listening to suggestions. The bottom line is, when you play on a team or in a league such as the Elite I league, Elite II league or even a AAA team, the player has to take it apon themselves to get the most out of it. There is a certain expectation that these players have a pretty good understanding of the game of hockey going in. Obviously such a thing is going to be more prevalent at the Elite I level than at the Elite II level. If the player doesn't have such a thing than they will probably struggle at even the Elite II level. The players also have to be self motivated, no matter what option you choose, you as a player are only going to get out of it what you put into it. It is not like playing on your high school teams where you generally are playing with the same group of players since you 5 years old. Also, these teams are a lot about participation and the overall developing of players. If you are able to practice 4 days a week and go into the weekends running the teams like you are trying to win a high school championship, playing 3 lines regularly and spoting your fourth, or having set special team units, instead of giving all the players a chance to perform in these different situations, than you would most likely see a little better version of hockey. But the league is not about putting on a great show for the fans like a Jr. team, it is about skill developement and I think from a you get what you pay for stance. Elite II has done a great job and giving parents that. I can just about guarentee you that there are kids in the Elite II league that are getting chances to be on a power play or kill penalties that they aren't going to get on their high school teams during the winter. That fact I think shows a tremendous commitment to the developement of as many young players as possible. From what I have seen both leagues have done a pretty good job of setting out to do what they were designed to do, which is give kids a chance to develope their skills through playing organized hockey on the weekends. I encourage anyone who thinks that the Elite II league is a joke to go to the league website and take a look at some of the players who have participated in this league, I think you will be surprised at how many D-1 players have come through the Elite II program.

[pioneers]

Now that was a mouthful. Well said

[observer]

Help me with this. I'm clear on Elite 1.

But, beyond Elite II,
http://www.eliteiihockey.com/

there is also the Steffen League,
http://www.steffentraining.com/

Ray Fuerst's League,
http://www.mn4on4hockey.com/homePage.htm

And maybe some others. Red Dog? Showcase League?

They all seem to have players from strong programs which usually means nice players. Some people seem to be requesting a clear pecking order which I don't think will happen. Was each league developed now that kids are allowed to play more games earlier before their high school seasons start?

[seek & destroy]

Help me with this. I'm clear on Elite 1.

But, beyond Elite II,
http://www.eliteiihockey.com/

there is also the Steffen League,
http://www.steffentraining.com/

Ray Fuerst's League,
http://www.mn4on4hockey.com/homePage.htm

And maybe some others. Red Dog? Showcase League?

They all seem to have players from strong programs which usually means nice players. Some people seem to be requesting a clear pecking order which I don't think will happen. Was each league developed now that kids are allowed to play more games earlier before their high school seasons start?

I don't think there needs to be a 'pecking order'. The important thing is that Minnesota kids are getting an opportunity to play more hockey. Some of it may be at a higher level than others but, most people would agree, that the important thing is getting on the ice and playing.

There is no question that the Elite league is the highest level of play. It attracts the best players and has gained the respect of coaches, scouts and fans for providing a good avenue for players to get some extra games in prior to the season. Do they have every top player? No. Some didn't want to play and others simply got missed in the selection process. But they do get most of the top players and that's probably the best you can hope for.

I will say that I agree with many who have said that it should be geared more toward the best seniors because that best benefits Minnesota High School hockey. The more seniors that are able to play in that level the fewer that will be tempted to leave for other places. It also does no good to have sophomores playing at that level (and little good to have juniors) because it just showcases them and increases a probabilty that they could leave prior to their senior year. Why elevate and show these players to the Junior clubs etc. if your goal is to keep them here through H.S.?

That is where Elite II could really help (if the leagues were run together or cooperatively). Elite II is the perfect venue to showcase the best juniors and some very talented sophomores. Other players may choose the Steffen league or some other leagues but there is a real opportunity for the Elite league to 'clean up' its act by reaching out to the Elite II founders and trying to bring the two leagues together for a common purpose. That will be up to the creators of Elite league and I'm not sure that they want it bad enough to ever have it happen but if they did it, I think it would really help both programs to better serve the entire hockey community.

[Can't Never Tried]

Help me with this. I'm clear on Elite 1.

But, beyond Elite II,
http://www.eliteiihockey.com/

there is also the Steffen League,
http://www.steffentraining.com/

Ray Fuerst's League,
http://www.mn4on4hockey.com/homePage.htm

And maybe some others. Red Dog? Showcase League?

They all seem to have players from strong programs which usually means nice players. Some people seem to be requesting a clear pecking order which I don't think will happen. Was each league developed now that kids are allowed to play more games earlier before their high school seasons start?

I don't think there needs to be a 'pecking order'. The important thing is that Minnesota kids are getting an opportunity to play more hockey. Some of it may be at a higher level than others but, most people would agree, that the important thing is getting on the ice and playing.

There is no question that the Elite league is the highest level of play. It attracts the best players and has gained the respect of coaches, scouts and fans for providing a good avenue for players to get some extra games in prior to the season. Do they have every top player? No. Some didn't want to play and others simply got missed in the selection process. But they do get most of the top players and that's probably the best you can hope for.

I will say that I agree with many who have said that it should be geared more toward the best seniors because that best benefits Minnesota High School hockey. The more seniors that are able to play in that level the fewer that will be tempted to leave for other places. It also does no good to have sophomores playing at that level (and little good to have juniors) because it just showcases them and increases a probabilty that they could leave prior to their senior year. Why elevate and show these players to the Junior clubs etc. if your goal is to keep them here through H.S.?

Great point! but they (UMHSEL) will tell you they want the very best players and they don't care what age or where they are from.

That is where Elite II could really help (if the leagues were run together or cooperatively). Elite II is the perfect venue to showcase the best juniors and some very talented sophomores. Other players may choose the Steffen league or some other leagues but there is a real opportunity for the Elite league to 'clean up' its act by reaching out to the Elite II founders and trying to bring the two leagues together for a common purpose. That will be up to the creators of Elite league and I'm not sure that they want it bad enough to ever have it happen but if they did it, I think it would really help both programs to better serve the entire hockey community.