TRY-OUT SCORES

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:13 pm

In our Assc. we don't post the scores that the kids get from the eveluators. These "TOP SECERT" scores are never seen by the parents. Is this normal? Our coaches pick66% of the teams. The scores "lock" 33%. How do others do it ??

MnMade-4-Life · Post by **MnMade-4-Life** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:17 pm

all associations I have working knowledge of do NOT allow access to tryout scores.

Personally, I could never be convinced that it would be in everyone's best interest to have access to such information. Keep it under wraps.

Shortsidegoal · Post by **Shortsidegoal** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:51 pm

[quote="MnMade-4-Life"]

2112 · Post by **2112** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:51 pm

Letting kids or parents look at scores is probably not that great of an idea.
However, give a player an evaluation and let them know what areas they are weak in and the areas of stength would be alot better for player evaluation process. Association pay alot of money out if the budget for this process, this would give a reason to the player and parents as to why they were placed on the A, B or C team.

jBlaze3000 · Post by **jBlaze3000** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:22 pm

Shortsidegoal wrote:
MnMade-4-Life wrote:all associations I have working knowledge of do NOT allow access to tryout scores.

Personally, I could never be convinced that it would be in everyone's best interest to have access to such information. Keep it under wraps.
I agree, best to keep them under wraps. Besides, the A teams are already picked, and the coaches, before tryouts even start!!!!!

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:36 pm

Shortsidegoal wrote:
MnMade-4-Life wrote:all associations I have working knowledge of do NOT allow access to tryout scores.

Personally, I could never be convinced that it would be in everyone's best interest to have access to such information. Keep it under wraps.
I agree, best to keep them under wraps. Besides, the A teams are already picked, and the coaches, before tryouts even start!!!!!

Do you need a tissue

I'm so tired of hearing that line every year.

If your kid was good enough he would be an A player, its that simple.

Shortsidegoal · Post by **Shortsidegoal** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:10 pm

[quote="ThePuckStopsHere

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Ours post them top to bottom on the arena window. A bold line is drawn between teams from A to C. Not that cool, but it tells you where you finished. It kinda stinks for the last kid on a team, and the 1st kid on the next team.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:47 pm

I personally would like to see the scores. Our association uses secret numbers during the try out process. Not sure why they cannot use this number to display the final scores?

Cdale · Post by **Cdale** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:09 am

I'm guessing most assoctiations choose to not post scores in order to keep the peace. I can only imagine parents "how did Matt score a 9 and my kid only a 7" etc... . It would be a total disaster.

Shinbone_News · Post by **Shinbone_News** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:18 am

I think it's a coach's job (and USAH says so too) to report to a kid and his/her parents how the progress is coming. Individually, we owe it to them to give detailed feedback on what their strength and weaknesses are -- that's really where the value of high association fees should be realized. I've heard Mn Made has player evaluations (different than tryouts), and I wonder what these look like? GIven their heavy reliance on goal-setting, there must be a rigorous process to see if anyone is actually reaching those goals.

But I agree that putting numbers to tryout results, and saying Tommy is better than Jimmy because of math, is just kicking the can down the road, and will not satisfy a parent who believes their kid has been put on the wrong team.

What may satisfy is a detailed conversation or report card that shows where Jimmy could use some improvement -- as well as what his strengths are. I wish we (coaches especially) had the time and energy to do this for every player, but that probably is not realistic for youth hockey.

As a coach, I love it when a parent asks me what I think about their player and especially what their strengths are and where I think they can improve (young kids won't do this myself). But they are by far the exception. Any coach who has any interest/skill at all should be able to have this conversation.

That all said, the answer to the OP question in my association is: Nada. Nothing. We get pinney numbers of those who have made the cut, put in numeric order of pinney, and that's it. I don;t think that's enough info, and the sort of culture of secrecy is, IMHO, not good in this day and age of "transparency."

jBlaze3000 · Post by **jBlaze3000** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:38 am

Our association allows you to see only your son's scores and evaluation notes when requested via email.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:52 am

Maybe unrelated note, but is it more popular to have "closed" tryouts or "open"? I can see the benefits of both, but still believe they should be open. Most and I say MOST parents can watch their child and get a feel where they will fall A-B-C. Yes, there are always the surprise player picked, but bubble picks are always up for debate.

The parents that can't see rationally will be a problem with open or closed tryouts.

Scout716 · Post by **Scout716** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:56 pm

The question of Posting scores is always questioned. So Much so that somethimes scores even Leak out and causes a stir in associations. the problem is the "Score" in the first place. After a week long tryout is a player who scores (an example) 82 really better then the player who scored 81? on paper Yes, But the number is really the only way for an adminstrative hockey board to justify one bubble player was selected over another. how many evaluators? did they all agree on the scores? ranking? etc. a 6 in one evaluator may be a 4 to the other one and how consistant are the scores? today, ot this player one may feel that shift was a 6 the next time the excat same but gave them a 5... what a mess.... heads are spinning....

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:14 pm

Our association, as far as I can tell, only "scores" the first session, called grading. After grading, it seems a very subjective, smoke filled room, discussion among the A and B1 coaches to move kids up or down between groups after each scrimmage. Then the A, B1 and B2 coaches draft their teams in that order. All the left overs then skate two scrimmages with the C coaches watching then the C coaches draft their teams. I don't think there is an overall score.

JoltDelivered · Post by **JoltDelivered** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:59 pm

Let me get this straight...there are some associations out there where coaches sit in the stands during tryouts and attempt to assign a score to the way a player does this drill or that drill? Or looks at a series of shifts in a scrimmage and says, "well, that looks like a 76 to me"?

You have to be kidding me right?

There are lots of things that you can measure numerically in hockey (goals, assists, PIM, GAA, etc...) but talent and ability to play the game are NOT on the list. What is wrong with people? What one guy thinks is a 76 the other is might think is an 82. Three guys down the bleachers might think it's a 94. Boy am I glad my kids are not forced into a mathmatical equation when trying out for a sport. That seems just down right silly. This is a classic case of overthinking the obvious. A score? Really?

How about this...drop the puck and lets see who competes and who doesn't? Over the course of a few icetimes, any coach worth his salt can recognize a good or bad hockey player from a mile away without the need for assigning a numerical value to the way a kid crosses over. Sheeesh...what are we turning into?

seek & destroy · Post by **seek & destroy** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:47 pm

JoltDelivered wrote:Let me get this straight...there are some associations out there where coaches sit in the stands during tryouts and attempt to assign a score to the way a player does this drill or that drill? Or looks at a series of shifts in a scrimmage and says, "well, that looks like a 76 to me"?

You have to be kidding me right?

There are lots of things that you can measure numerically in hockey (goals, assists, PIM, GAA, etc...) but talent and ability to play the game are NOT on the list. What is wrong with people? What one guy thinks is a 76 the other is might think is an 82. Three guys down the bleachers might think it's a 94. Boy am I glad my kids are not forced into a mathmatical equation when trying out for a sport. That seems just down right silly. This is a classic case of overthinking the obvious. A score? Really?

How about this...drop the puck and lets see who competes and who doesn't? Over the course of a few icetimes, any coach worth his salt can recognize a good or bad hockey player from a mile away without the need for assigning a numerical value to the way a kid crosses over. Sheeesh...what are we turning into?

I don’t think they meant that a coach gives one score at the end of a try out…it is the cumulative score that the player got over several days totaled up.

You say that ‘any coach worth his salt’ can pick the players from a mile away. True about the top 5 or maybe top 10 but what about the final 2 or 3 picks? What makes player 14 or 15 better than player 16 & 17? It isn’t as easy as you make it sound and it is inevitable that there are decisions made that create disputes.

Having some form of number system allows each evaluator to score with their scale. As long as each evaluator is giving high scores to the better players and mid scores to the average players and low scores to the poor players consistently within their own system of scoring, it should work out. For example, one coaches 8 might be another’s 6. As long as their 4 is similar to the others 3 it all works out.

Of course there are also players who get scored differently because different coaches look for different skill sets. Some kids are great at drills but horrible in games. Some kids love to play physical and others hate it. Some kids give consistent effort and others appear lazy. Coaches watch to determine things they like to see in a hockey player and then give their score accordingly. The important thing is that the coaches and other evaluators are consistent and fair within their own system.

As far as posting actual scores, it simply isn't worth the hassle it will cause. Posting the scores via 'secret number' doesn't work because half the parents are writing down names to match the numbers during the tryout. Posting them in order of score from top to bottom and drawing a line at each level is pretty harsh for youth hockey. The fact is that many parents have trouble seeing their own kid objectively. Posting the scores will just irritate them even more. If a parent has a question regarding the tryout results, have them ask to get a summation of what the evaluators or coaches commented about or what things the evaluators feel the kid should work on.

It won't resolve the issue because what the parent really wants to know is why 'little Jimmy' made the team and their kid didn't - because in THEIR mind 'little Jimmy' isn't nearly as good as their kid.

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:27 pm

I bought the coach/evaluator several drinks over the weekend, my kids score went from a 68 to an 84.

sinbin · Post by **sinbin** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:33 pm

Finally, some common sense in an ill-understood and obfuscated topic.

JoltDelivered · Post by **JoltDelivered** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:41 pm

seek & destroy wrote: You say that ‘any coach worth his salt’ can pick the players from a mile away. True about the top 5 or maybe top 10 but what about the final 2 or 3 picks? What makes player 14 or 15 better than player 16 & 17?

In all honestly not much. I know from a parent's perspective having your kid #15 and make the team or #16 and get from the team means life or death. But from a coach's perspective, there is usually very little difference between players 14-17. And rarely will it mean that selecting one kid over another in that group will mean 3-5 more wins for the team. Yes, it's true, coaches pick teams that they think will give them the best chance to win.

Players 14-17 are generally not your most talented players and I can tell you from expereience that when you get down to that point, you are looking for any little thing that a kid does in a scrimmage, in the locker room or during dryland that will seperate himself from the others. I completely disagree with defautling to a cumulative scoresheet that was calcualted over time. That in no way takes into consideration many of the intangibles that coaches look for. At that point the coach often has to rely on his expereience and intuiton which I know can't be justified numerically.

Unless of course the kid has a hot mom...then all bets are off.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:57 pm

iwearmysunglassesatnight wrote:Ours post them top to bottom on the arena window. A bold line is drawn between teams from A to C. Not that cool, but it tells you where you finished. It kinda stinks for the last kid on a team, and the 1st kid on the next team.

Maybe this has been covered as I haven't read the entire thread but this is wrong and cruel.

Go ahead and let the kid know privately upon request their score such as 60 out of 60, 45 or 60, 1 of 60th but to post them for all to see is wrong. That is if you're going to do it at all which is a different arguement. There is nothing zippo gained by doing this publicly displaying them for all to see. Pathetic.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:02 pm

JoltDelivered wrote:Let me get this straight...there are some associations out there where coaches sit in the stands during tryouts and attempt to assign a score to the way a player does this drill or that drill? Or looks at a series of shifts in a scrimmage and says, "well, that looks like a 76 to me"?

You have to be kidding me right?

There are lots of things that you can measure numerically in hockey (goals, assists, PIM, GAA, etc...) but talent and ability to play the game are NOT on the list. What is wrong with people? What one guy thinks is a 76 the other is might think is an 82. Three guys down the bleachers might think it's a 94. Boy am I glad my kids are not forced into a mathmatical equation when trying out for a sport. That seems just down right silly. This is a classic case of overthinking the obvious. A score? Really?

How about this...drop the puck and lets see who competes and who doesn't? Over the course of a few icetimes, any coach worth his salt can recognize a good or bad hockey player from a mile away without the need for assigning a numerical value to the way a kid crosses over. Sheeesh...what are we turning into?

Ours association scores the top 2/3 of the kids then the coach picks whoever the hell he wants from there. Which is a good thing as it addresses chemistry, eliminates pain in the ass parents and fortuneately they usually pick the best kids anyways. So scoring addresses part of it, subjectivity addresses part of it and likeability (good old boys, nice kids). This is all just fine!

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:13 pm

One last thing on scoring from me. Sometimes along with the evaluators the coach is scoring as well. The coach can scew the numbers by giving a kid a 0 or a 10 thus throwing the averages of the independant evaluators off. So when scores are tabulated and 5 evaluators give a kid an 6, 7 or and 8 but the coach who knows the kid gives a 0 FIND OUT WHY? Maybe the average evaluator gives a 3 but the coach gives a 10, FIND OUT WHY? Don't blindly tabulate the scores.