1AA and 8AA

[SpreadOut!]

…are dreadful this year. Terrible.

The clear favorite to win 1AA—Lakeville South—lost 9-1 to Tonka’s metro area all star team today, 5-0 to Wayzata yesterday, and 5-3 to Eastview and 7-5 to Shakopee last week.

Meanwhile, Moorhead—the favorite in 8AA—lost 9-2 today to Eden Prairie, which could be seeded as low as #5 in 2AA this year.

And, unfortunately, 7AA is not much better. Andover did beat Chanhassen their first game of the season, and at times they’ve been somewhat competitive against some of the better teams, but they are not that good. And beyond Andover, 7AA is super weak.

When is the last time we’ve had two, maybe three, sections this weak? 4AA for that matter isn’t that good either.

[SpreadOut!]

Yep, just saw Andover beat Hill 4-2. Both 7AA and 4AA are also weak. Not as weak as 1AA and 8AA, but not good. But one of the winners of these two sections will be seeded—almost certainly at #5—in the state tourney. At least two, or more, of the state tourney quarterfinals this year on Thursday could be very ugly.

[ClassAGuy]

Class A Looking to have Better QF Games than AA!
Never happened before but this year seems primed to happen Defending Champs Zephs could be unseeded

[StanleyCup55]

Wayzata will probably blowout South or MHD in the first game Thursday but that first game of the second session Thursday they might as well not even play. Would be surprised if whoever the West Metro Skippers play can find a way to get 5 shots on goal-hopefully Chan can upset them in sections.

The other two games should be good. Should be something like MG vs Andover in the afternoon and HM vs STA in the nightcap.

[SpreadOut!]

Hey! Lakeville South beat Rogers 5-2 today. But maybe that says more about Rogers, who appears to be completely falling apart. How soon before Bumgarner’s dad pulls him out of Rogers for greener pastures again? Will he play for a 4th different high school in four years next year, or just leave mid-season this year for juniors? Stay tuned. Dad clearly can’t be happy with what’s happening at Rogers. I wonder what he’s been like at games this week? Gotta be scary.

[headsupsticksdown]

Hey! Lakeville South beat Rogers 5-2 today. But maybe that says more about Rogers, who appears to be completely falling apart. How soon before Bumgarner’s dad pulls him out of Rogers for greener pastures again? Will he play for a 4th different high school in four years next year, or just leave mid-season this year for juniors? Stay tuned. Dad clearly can’t be happy with what’s happening at Rogers. I wonder what he’s been like at games this week? Gotta be scary.

Should’ve stayed at Shako!

[SpreadOut!]

Meanwhile, Eagan, who is not good, at all, is leading Rochester Century/JM (the “better” Rochester team) 2-0 late in 3rd period tonight after beating Rochester Mayo last night 8-1. Rochester should have one team if they want to be competitive in AA, or their schools should petition to play A. Again, Section 1AA is an absolute joke and embarrassment to the State of Hockey. My God, will the MSHSL please move a couple more southern metro teams—Prior Lake, Rosemount, Shakopee—to the section?!?!?! Please!!!

[goldy313]

I watched a bunch of games in Rochester this tournament. Eagan and Luverne were the best two teams. I get the new Co-op should take a while to come together but many of these kids played together in RYHA. Century/JM should be better. Venay leaving hurt a lot……I’m not convinced playing in the NAHL as a senior is such a great idea. He was a potential Mr. Hockey nominee in the MSHSL he is a run of the mill kid in the NAHL.

The tournament structure is awful! As a hockey fan I would have loved a Luverne/Eagan game.

Rochester has no business having one team, given the F/R lunch rates at Century and Mayo. Rochester Youth Hockey needs to figure out how to get kids to play hockey and keep playing hockey instead of pricing them out of the sport.

Personally, I would move both STA and Rosemount into 1AA and take both Lakeville schools out. Hastings, Park, and Eastview should be in the mix as well.

[SpreadOut!]

With the way things are competitively in the sections this year, the #5 seed in 2AA—which will be Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Shakopee or Holy Family—would win Sections 1AA, 4AA, 7AA and 8AA, easily. I’d maybe even put them as the favorite in Section 3AA over Rosemount, STA and CDH.

Right now, the hockey talent at the high school level seems to be heavily concentrated in the west metro suburbs. In my opinion, it’s way past time for the MSHSL to seed the AA playoffs like they do with the biggest class in football—where they are ranked 1 through 32 and seeded based on that, not geography. The best state tournament is when the best 8 teams in the state are in it. That won’t even come close to happening this year.

[goldy313]

I will counter to reducing it to 4 sections and go to a “true second” like wrestling does. A double elimination tournament where as long as you haven’t already lost to a school who beat you…you can play for the second spot.

[SpreadOut!]

I will counter to reducing it to 4 sections and go to a “true second” like wrestling does. A double elimination tournament where as long as you haven’t already lost to a school who beat you…you can play for the second spot.

Fine with me, as long as the sections are seeded and not based on geography.

[Hockeyfan911]

With the way things are competitively in the sections this year, the #5 seed in 2AA—which will be Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Shakopee or Holy Family—would win Sections 1AA, 4AA, 7AA and 8AA, easily. I’d maybe even put them as the favorite in Section 3AA over Rosemount, STA and CDH.

Right now, the hockey talent at the high school level seems to be heavily concentrated in the west metro suburbs. In my opinion, it’s way past time for the MSHSL to seed the AA playoffs like they do with the biggest class in football—where they are ranked 1 through 32 and seeded based on that, not geography. The best state tournament is when the best 8 teams in the state are in it. That won’t even come close to happening this year.

Agree there is some disparity this year but no need to panic. We’ve seen it before and it’s cyclical. As for the #5 seed in 2AA walking through those other sections, might have to pump the brakes a bit. EP has already lost to 4aa favorite
Hill and their best result this is is a tie. Chan has lost to 7aa favorite Andover. Holy Family albeit looking good has not beat a team ranked in the top 20 and Shakopees best win was against a single A team and squeaked by East by a goal. “Easily” is a bit of a stretch as the results don’t really provide evidence of that (I will concede on 8aa and 1aa).

Yes there will be a couple teams left out of state that potentially could’ve won other sections just like every other year. At the end of the day, there is 2 teams and the rest….

[SpreadOut!]

With the way things are competitively in the sections this year, the #5 seed in 2AA—which will be Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Shakopee or Holy Family—would win Sections 1AA, 4AA, 7AA and 8AA, easily. I’d maybe even put them as the favorite in Section 3AA over Rosemount, STA and CDH.

Right now, the hockey talent at the high school level seems to be heavily concentrated in the west metro suburbs. In my opinion, it’s way past time for the MSHSL to seed the AA playoffs like they do with the biggest class in football—where they are ranked 1 through 32 and seeded based on that, not geography. The best state tournament is when the best 8 teams in the state are in it. That won’t even come close to happening this year.

Agree there is some disparity this year but no need to panic. We’ve seen it before and it’s cyclical. As for the #5 seed in 2AA walking through those other sections, might have to pump the brakes a bit. EP has already lost to 4aa favorite
Hill and their best result this is is a tie. Chan has lost to 7aa favorite Andover. Holy Family albeit looking good has not beat a team ranked in the top 20 and Shakopees best win was against a single A team and squeaked by East by a goal. “Easily” is a bit of a stretch as the results don’t really provide evidence of that (I will concede on 8aa and 1aa).

Yes there will be a couple teams left out of state that potentially could’ve won other sections just like every other year. At the end of the day, there is 2 teams and the rest….

Good point. My original post focused on 1AA and 8AA, both of which are awful this year. It still says a lot, however, that this year’s 5 seed in 2AA would breeze through 1AA and 8AA and at minimum be a very top contender to win 4AA and 7AA, and likely 3AA as well. Speaks to need, in my opinion, to move to a new playoff system based on seeding without having geography as a factor. At the AA level, there just are not enough competitive programs regionally anymore to base it on geography.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

With the way things are competitively in the sections this year, the #5 seed in 2AA—which will be Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Shakopee or Holy Family—would win Sections 1AA, 4AA, 7AA and 8AA, easily. I’d maybe even put them as the favorite in Section 3AA over Rosemount, STA and CDH.

Right now, the hockey talent at the high school level seems to be heavily concentrated in the west metro suburbs. In my opinion, it’s way past time for the MSHSL to seed the AA playoffs like they do with the biggest class in football—where they are ranked 1 through 32 and seeded based on that, not geography. The best state tournament is when the best 8 teams in the state are in it. That won’t even come close to happening this year.

Agree there is some disparity this year but no need to panic. We’ve seen it before and it’s cyclical. As for the #5 seed in 2AA walking through those other sections, might have to pump the brakes a bit. EP has already lost to 4aa favorite
Hill and their best result this is is a tie. Chan has lost to 7aa favorite Andover. Holy Family albeit looking good has not beat a team ranked in the top 20 and Shakopees best win was against a single A team and squeaked by East by a goal. “Easily” is a bit of a stretch as the results don’t really provide evidence of that (I will concede on 8aa and 1aa).

Yes there will be a couple teams left out of state that potentially could’ve won other sections just like every other year. At the end of the day, there is 2 teams and the rest….

This.

I was going to use my Mike Tyson voice for an "OK calm down." I think one good barometer for a playoff system is whether or not there are four good semifinalists, any of which you can see winning the championship. Typically there would be one or two favorites, and one with a more difficult path, but that you'd not be shocked to see any of them winning it all. And on that score, without giving it too much thought, I think the past several tournaments have delivered.

[green4]

Class A Looking to have Better QF Games than AA!
Never happened before but this year seems primed to happen Defending Champs Zephs could be unseeded

I sure hope a team in a cake walk of a section that is 4-7 and would be lucky to end the year at .500 would be unseeded.

[Hockeyfan911]

I thought I read that the MSHSL voted to seed 1-8 this year. Is this not the case?

[goldy313]

Other than ~5 years 1AA hasn’t been regularly competitive since 1989.

[ClassAGuy]

Class A Looking to have Better QF Games than AA!
Never happened before but this year seems primed to happen Defending Champs Zephs could be unseeded

I sure hope a team in a cake walk of a section that is 4-7 and would be lucky to end the year at .500 would be unseeded.

You must not follow Class A much or look at the strength of schedule. I still see Zephyrs as the 4 or 5 seed at State. Depends on who wins 2A. But if they somehow ended up as unseeded would make for a fun Wednesday and would give a top 3 seed a heck of a game.

[ClassAGuy]

I thought I read that the MSHSL voted to seed 1-8 this year. Is this not the case?

They vote this spring if both boys and girls hockey coaches approve it will go into effect next year. Stay tuned for the vote in April on this.

[green4]

Class A Looking to have Better QF Games than AA!
Never happened before but this year seems primed to happen Defending Champs Zephs could be unseeded

I sure hope a team in a cake walk of a section that is 4-7 and would be lucky to end the year at .500 would be unseeded.

You must not follow Class A much or look at the strength of schedule. I still see Zephyrs as the 4 or 5 seed at State. Depends on who wins 2A. But if they somehow ended up as unseeded would make for a fun Wednesday and would give a top 3 seed a heck of a game.

I follow it close enough to know teams like Hermantown have a tough schedule and depending how you feel about the North Dakota teams, Warroad has had a tough schedule so far. The only difference between them and mahtomedi is mahtomedi is not winning much this year.

Originally, this thread was made to talk about how bad 1AA and 8AA are which is true, but your example and bringing up mahtomedhi I found ironic given that 4A is the most boring section I think between any section in class A or AA. I’m sure mahtomedi is still like the 6th best team in single A like your rankings suggest but the rest of that section stinks and except for a few years When SPA is good, it has always sucked. Until Mahtomedi gets like 50 more kids at that school and goes up to AA I imagine they could go below .500 each year playing a tough schedule and still make it to state.

[ClassAGuy]

I sure hope a team in a cake walk of a section that is 4-7 and would be lucky to end the year at .500 would be unseeded.

You must not follow Class A much or look at the strength of schedule. I still see Zephyrs as the 4 or 5 seed at State. Depends on who wins 2A. But if they somehow ended up as unseeded would make for a fun Wednesday and would give a top 3 seed a heck of a game.

I follow it close enough to know teams like Hermantown have a tough schedule and depending how you feel about the North Dakota teams, Warroad has had a tough schedule so far. The only difference between them and mahtomedi is mahtomedi is not winning much this year.

Originally, this thread was made to talk about how bad 1AA and 8AA are which is true, but your example and bringing up mahtomedhi I found ironic given that 4A is the most boring section I think between any section in class A or AA. I’m sure mahtomedi is still like the 6th best team in single A like your rankings suggest but the rest of that section stinks and except for a few years When SPA is good, it has always sucked. Until Mahtomedi gets like 50 more kids at that school and goes up to AA I imagine they could go below .500 each year playing a tough schedule and still make it to state.

I understand your point well but I just disagreed with you statement. "I sure hope a team in a cake walk of a section that is 4-7 and would be lucky to end the year at .500 would be unseeded."

My point was not about Section Strength ever totally agree 4A is Blah as Blah can be. However, I think Mahtomedi will be be seeded #5 or #4 at state regardless of record BUT there is a slim chance that if they have a bad enough record they could somehow go unseeded. I disagreed with your statement that at (4-7) and in a bad section they should be unseeded, which is why I said your not looking at strength of schedule or understanding Class A well if you think they should be unseeded at state.

This thread is talking about 1AA and 8AA being awful but then got into how it will produce two teams at AA state that have no business being there this year and will make two of the QF games yawners. I added my comment to that thought because for the first time ever Class A may have a better a QF round overall than AA. Is 4A weak 100% but Mahtomedi will be a contender at state. While the overall section of 4A is not great Mahtomedi as champion will be a tough out at state whoever they play and they would be toughest unseeded Class A team since Hibbing was back when the late Adam Johnson played for them.

I was disagreeing with your statement that was suggesting they would be lucky not be unseeded because in AA yes they would struggle but in A they are nightmare team to play and if they would somehow get unseeded the Class A QF round could be better than AA with how poor 1AA & 8AA are. That has never happened before and would be big step up for Class A to have a better QF round. I think the Class A SF and Championship games have been more entertaining and better from fan perspective than AA from year to year the complaint has always been Wednesday stinks every year when this year Wednesday might be decent and Thursday will stink. I think Mahtomedi regardless of record, heck they took Warroad to OT this year who you brought up, will be a good champion at State to make run unlike whoever comes out of 1AA & 8AA this year.

Sorry though I don't want to highjack this thread I was just pointing out that IF Mahtomedi was unseeded, they shouldn't be, but if they were could make two great Wednesday games and produce a better QF round due to the huge in balance of 1AA & 8AA being so down this year. Back to the AA talk now.

[green4]

You must not follow Class A much or look at the strength of schedule. I still see Zephyrs as the 4 or 5 seed at State. Depends on who wins 2A. But if they somehow ended up as unseeded would make for a fun Wednesday and would give a top 3 seed a heck of a game.

I think the Class A SF and Championship games have been more entertaining and better from fan perspective than AA from year to year the complaint has always been Wednesday stinks every year when this year Wednesday might be decent and Thursday will stink.

If you think Thursday is going to stink because class AA has two teams that are not on the same level of competition as the other 6 teams then I have some bad news for you in regards to the games on Wednesday.

But I agree, we can leave this conversation to rest.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

The Old Guy can offer some perspective on this. Over the history of the tournament, it has been the norm that there have been two teams that "don't belong there", and have no chance to get passed the first round. In the last several years, we've been fortunate that there have been 5 or even 6 teams that one could see winning the championship, or at least making it to the final. A mathematician would refer to this as regression to the mean.

I recall when I was a young lad, and the last quarterfinal of the day was Grand Rapids and Sibley. My Dad said we wouldn't need to stay for more than a period of it. I thought, "How does he know that?" He was spot on, and some years later I could see why. In 1987, Kennedy's best team ever Throttled someone in the last quarterfinal. If there's a blow out, you want it ay the end of the day, it's pretty nice to head back to the hotel during intermission and catch the last period on TV.

[goldy313]

I will counter to reducing it to 4 sections and go to a “true second” like wrestling does. A double elimination tournament where as long as you haven’t already lost to a school who beat you…you can play for the second spot.

Fine with me, as long as the sections are seeded and not based on geography.

No! Rochester Mayo and Roseau can not be against each other early on. There has to be some common sense to this like football does.

[SpreadOut!]

I will counter to reducing it to 4 sections and go to a “true second” like wrestling does. A double elimination tournament where as long as you haven’t already lost to a school who beat you…you can play for the second spot.

Fine with me, as long as the sections are seeded and not based on geography.

No! Rochester Mayo and Roseau can not be against each other early on. There has to be some common sense to this like football does.

I don’t understand what you mean? What does football do besides ranking them 1-32 with 1 playing 32 in round 1, 2 playing 31, 3 playing 30, etc?