Does the North have an inferiority complex?

[ted2you]

Everyone loves the northern teams for several reasons.

1. Metro teams hate and distrust each other. Everyone has two favorite teams, theirs and the teams playing other metro teams.
2. There is almost always the David and Goliath component to playing northern schools.
3. Northern programs have tradition and more passion for the game.
4. It flat out means more to the northern communities and that carries over.

I was shocked 20 years ago when I moved from northern MN to become a Citiot and to watch metro hockey games. It was bizarre to see that your average Crookston JV game had larger attendance than WBL drew. Outside the few diehards, few even pay attention until sections and god forbid the state tournament. Its probably the wrong post, but metro Hockey is like going to Marriucci to watch the Gophers play. No atmosphere! Love them or hate them UND fans have passion for the game. The Northern Schools play like it really matters and I think people like that. OK, Gopher fans are never going to like UND fans, but I am sure if they are honest they are more than a little jealous.

Go watch a game at Thief River Falls, Grand Rapids, Warroad, Roseau and you will see 2,000 to 3,000 fans at a game. Watch WBL play Roseville and there will be lucky to have 500 people at the game.

[Goldyismoldy]

Now you're just pot-stirring. Roseau-Warroad rivalry is a whole separate deal.

The intent from the initial post.

Lee

I'm sure all you Northeners think it's normal for all the City people to root for you rather than their neighbors is normal, because your used to it. It happens every year. And of course anybody who questions why the unreciprocated 'love' is not there is simply a pot-stirring troll.

The intent from the initial post Admin, was why. It interests me. Is this not a discussion board? Many fine responses, of which I'm appreciative.

[Goldyismoldy]

Everyone loves the northern teams for several reasons.

1. Metro teams hate and distrust each other. Everyone has two favorite teams, theirs and the teams playing other metro teams.
2. There is almost always the David and Goliath component to playing northern schools.
3. Northern programs have tradition and more passion for the game.
4. It flat out means more to the northern communities and that carries over.

I was shocked 20 years ago when I moved from northern MN to become a Citiot and to watch metro hockey games. It was bizarre to see that your average Crookston JV game had larger attendance than WBL drew. Outside the few diehards, few even pay attention until sections and god forbid the state tournament. Its probably the wrong post, but metro Hockey is like going to Marriucci to watch the Gophers play. No atmosphere! Love them or hate them UND fans have passion for the game. The Northern Schools play like it really matters and I think people like that. OK, Gopher fans are never going to like UND fans, but I am sure if they are honest they are more than a little jealous.

Go watch a game at Thief River Falls, Grand Rapids, Warroad, Roseau and you will see 2,000 to 3,000 fans at a game. Watch WBL play Roseville and there will be lucky to have 500 people at the game.

Hold your cards, I think we have a bingo.

Although #2 is sketchy and 3 is a self perception...

[east hockey]

Now you're just pot-stirring. Roseau-Warroad rivalry is a whole separate deal.

The intent from the initial post.

Lee

I'm sure all you Northeners think it's normal for all the City people to root for you rather than their neighbors is normal, because your used to it. It happens every year. And of course anybody who questions why the unreciprocated 'love' is not there is simply a pot-stirring troll.

The intent from the initial post Admin, was why. It interests me. Is this not a discussion board? Many fine responses, of which I'm appreciative.

Uh-huh.



Lee

[Goldyismoldy]

The intent from the initial post.

Lee

I'm sure all you Northeners think it's normal for all the City people to root for you rather than their neighbors is normal, because your used to it. It happens every year. And of course anybody who questions why the unreciprocated 'love' is not there is simply a pot-stirring troll.

The intent from the initial post Admin, was why. It interests me. Is this not a discussion board? Many fine responses, of which I'm appreciative.

Uh-huh.



Lee

I realize this isn't another "how great is Randolph" thread, so I thank you for your patience.

[east hockey]

I'm sure all you Northeners think it's normal for all the City people to root for you rather than their neighbors is normal, because your used to it. It happens every year. And of course anybody who questions why the unreciprocated 'love' is not there is simply a pot-stirring troll.

The intent from the initial post Admin, was why. It interests me. Is this not a discussion board? Many fine responses, of which I'm appreciative.

Uh-huh.



Lee

I realize this isn't another "how great is Randolph" thread, so I thank you for your patience.

Great idea! Let's start one.

Lee

[OGEE OGELTHORPE]

AY




Rock on!

[Froggy Richards]

The intent from the initial post.

Lee

I'm sure all you Northeners think it's normal for all the City people to root for you rather than their neighbors is normal, because your used to it. It happens every year. And of course anybody who questions why the unreciprocated 'love' is not there is simply a pot-stirring troll.

The intent from the initial post Admin, was why. It interests me. Is this not a discussion board? Many fine responses, of which I'm appreciative.

Uh-huh.



Lee

That's unfair Lee. You know I love ya, but this was a really good thread start. He is genuine in his question and I think it's a good topic. Not sure how u see it differently, IMDAO.

[defense]

One word.

packerboy

Too obvious.

Roseau has been to the tourney a kazillion times, yet every time they're the fan favorite. The cities fan favorite. They should hate you because of all your success, yet they love your hockey team in spite of the fact you hate theirs.

Explain that.

We do not hate Roseau because they have success despite being one of the smallest schools to ice a hockey team. I assume that this affection is shared by hockey fans anywhere , even if they have the unfortunate situation of living in the metro area.

[Froggy Richards]

One word.

packerboy

Too obvious.

Roseau has been to the tourney a kazillion times, yet every time they're the fan favorite. The cities fan favorite. They should hate you because of all your success, yet they love your hockey team in spite of the fact you hate theirs.

Explain that.

We do not hate Roseau because they have success despite being one of the smallest schools to ice a hockey team. I assume that this affection is shared by hockey fans anywhere , even if they have the unfortunate situation of living in the metro area.

Anyone that hates Roseau is not a fan of the game....

[Froggy Richards]

The best way I can describe it is by the arenas. You walk into those old, Northern barns and you can just feel the history. Hibbing, Roseau, Warroad, Eveleth, Virginia, the old rink in Thief River. I know I'm missing some but i havent been too all of them. The old rink in Crookston is probably my favorite. When you hear the term barn, that is what I think of. That place is literally a Barn. After experiencing those rinks, you can't help but respect and cheer on the Northern teams. When I say you can actually feel the history, I mean that literally. You really can feel it.

Great response Froggy. I know what you mean. Believe it or not, Blake has one of those Classic Eveleth Hippodrome looks with a barrel shaped wooden roof. It's old and beautiful.

I had no idea that Blake had an Arena like that. I will try to make it a point to get down there and watch a game. If I feel the History in the building, I will give Blake props and probably become a closet fan.

[elliott70]

Its a good topic, not sure of the title 'inferiority complex'.

I think several from the 'north' have said they cheer for other northern teams because of the unity form being together over the years with and against each other. But I think that is similar in the metro area. Perhaps it is the distance traveled and the fact they hang together while the metro folks can go home after the game in Plymouth or else where.

I know several younger people from Bemidji that would never cheer for Moorhead. Too much high school rivalry. Some feel that way about Roseau. Grand rapids and Hibbing were high on my list of 'I hope you get your butt's kicked' when I was younger.

But now I cheer for just about everyone but more so those that I have a 'connection with' and against those that I dislike for some reason. The usual reason is an arrogance of the fans and sometimes the players.

I cheer against Edina even though I admire them. C'mon, everyone hates them just because they are always good, they have the resources.

A lot of people hate the private schools. But Hill is one of my favorites and I despise STA. I like DMarshall and do not care for Cathedral (even with a good friend being a Cathedral alum).

Inferiority complex??? No, the north cheer for the north because the guys down the highway are more like us, papermakers, miners, farmers, loggers, middle of the road guys. The perception of the metro guys are BIG. Big school, big money, big heads. No reason to like them.

So go Jacks, go Hounds!

Nothing against the other 6 (except STA of course).

[karl(east)]

My somewhat vague answer would explain it as "permanence" or something like that.

Look at most of the suburban schools. 50 years ago, half of them would have been in empty farming fields. Others were small towns that look nothing like what they do today. The inner-ring suburbs, which did exist back then, have undergone such major changes in demographics that they're nearly unrecognizable. It is hard to have a sense of history when one's own history, within living memory, is something utterly foreign.

How many people are cradle-to-grave residents of places like Blaine or Eagan? Are there any old guys standing down along the glass who can tell stories of those great Mahtomedi teams of yore? In the North, those stories get woven into the fabric of the town; suburbia, despite often being a lovely place to live, does not lend itself to creating that small-town fabric that endures for more than a generation. A kid growing up in Woodbury today is probably just as likely to wind up in Maple Grove or Chanhassen or Lakeville if he decides to settle in the Metro 10 years from now when he's ready to start a family.

Edina, now, is the exception that proves the rule: it's long been Cakeville, MN, and love it or hate it, it has a very distinct identity, and it's hard not to respect that. Hill-Murray, after a fashion, is similar, at least when it comes to hockey. Private schools have communities, too. There are occasional glimmers of history in places like St. Paul Johnson, and you can bet that, if they ever make it back to the X, they'll be as beloved as a northern team. But pretty much every other Metro school that was any good in the early days of the Tourney is bad now, if it even still exists. (White Bear is the only other exception that comes to mind.) Suburbs rise and fall, while the North plods on--and sometimes it struggles to hang on, but at least there are people trying to make sure it does. There's still a memory of the glory days, either in family or legend or those banners hanging down from the wooden rafters. It's something you can feel, and when you feel it in someone else's rink, you respect it, and it creates this shared identity--the North.

On an unrelated note, style of play has a role in perception, too. It's not always accurate, but there's this sense that small-town boys from blue-collar farming or mining background, and that they have to work hard and hit hard to do well. People love that. Duluth East is admittedly much more cakey, but once again, they're the exception that proves the rule: I remember a reading great quote at some point saying that Randolph's early success came from "beating the cake" (read: softness) out of the East players. His first Tourney team in 1991 came down and pounded the crap out of a favored, Darby Hendrickson-led Richfield team, and that made a pretty big splash. (There ya go, Goldy, I managed to sneak some Randolph praise into my explanantion. ) City people love the mythology of the hard-working northern boys who do all their training on outdoor rinks instead of at some expensive suburban facility. It's not always true, but on average it's probably far more true of northern players than of Metro players. We love the idea of purity in youth sports, and the North still (sort of, kind of) clings to that.

[karl(east)]

I think several from the 'north' have said they cheer for other northern teams because of the unity form being together over the years with and against each other. But I think that is similar in the metro area. Perhaps it is the distance traveled and the fact they hang together while the metro folks can go home after the game in Plymouth or else where.

I know several younger people from Bemidji that would never cheer for Moorhead. Too much high school rivalry. Some feel that way about Roseau. Grand rapids and Hibbing were high on my list of 'I hope you get your butt's kicked' when I was younger.

But now I cheer for just about everyone but more so those that I have a 'connection with' and against those that I dislike for some reason. The usual reason is an arrogance of the fans and sometimes the players.

I agree with this, too. My senior year, Cloquet beat East in the playoffs, and I remember being bitter and taking some glee when Edina pounded the Jacks at State. Now, though, I'd find some purple in my closet and root for them as hard as anyone. We built something through all of those rivalry games, and those ties linger.

[stromboli]

Three more reasons the metro cheers for northern teams...
1. Quite a few of us are from northern MN and got pulled into the cities for work. Still have strong ties to relatives, friends, and our hometowns. That pride never dies. (BTW -- Way to go DL this season!)
2. The players and fans from up north are easy to root for. What you see is what you get. Genuine. Hard work. Faith, family, and respect for the game.
3. Some of the more affluent with "cabins" outside the 494/694 loop think they're part of the northern vibe because they pay taxes there and/or spend a few weekends wearing now fashionable flannel and jeans that have been washed to where you might confuse them for a worked in look. (Camo is still frowned upon though, except for a few confused Duck Dynasty wannabes -- cause it looks quaint on TV)

[buttend]

The North is 'ALL NORTH', whether they're underdogs or not.

In the Cities, only Edina likes Edina. Everybody roots against them. Same for E.P., Hill, St. Thomas, Breck, etc. Why doesn't the rest of 7AA not HATE ON DE in the same manner?

The Citiots will be rooting for Bemidji the loudest this tourney, they will be the Roseau like 'darlings'.

It's interesting....

Citiots? if you going use that word you have to put it in proper context as a woodtick would say it.

its "Cidiots, fer sur there-a"

[HockeyBum]

I cheer for cities teams and love them and their fans when they play a private school or Edina;-)

[rainier]

Three more reasons the metro cheers for northern teams...
1. Quite a few of us are from northern MN and got pulled into the cities for work. Still have strong ties to relatives, friends, and our hometowns. That pride never dies. (BTW -- Way to go DL this season!)
2. The players and fans from up north are easy to root for. What you see is what you get. Genuine. Hard work. Faith, family, and respect for the game.
3. Some of the more affluent with "cabins" outside the 494/694 loop think they're part of the northern vibe because they pay taxes there and/or spend a few weekends wearing now fashionable flannel and jeans that have been washed to where you might confuse them for a worked in look. (Camo is still frowned upon though, except for a few confused Duck Dynasty wannabes -- cause it looks quaint on TV)

I especially agree with #1, a huge majority of Hibbing graduates end up living in the metro area, and I imagine it is the same for any northern school. I'd even go as far as to say that the steady stream of northerners to the metro over the last 30+ years has played a large role in growing the game down there.

[SCBlueLiner]

Nice post Karl. A follow up to that, how is a school like Stillwater viewed? I'm not a metro person, from the south, so from the outside I look at a community like Stillwater as kind of metro due to proximity but kinda on their own, an old river town, a town with a history to it, unlike some of the other burbs. Of course there is the money factor at play.

The OP brought up a good topic, no troll, legitimate topic.

[BodyShots]

The North is 'ALL NORTH', whether they're underdogs or not.

In the Cities, only Edina likes Edina. Everybody roots against them. Same for E.P., Hill, St. Thomas, Breck, etc. Why doesn't the rest of 7AA not HATE ON DE in the same manner?

The Citiots will be rooting for Bemidji the loudest this tourney, they will be the Roseau like 'darlings'.

It's interesting....

Interesting post GisM. Lee put the boat away, Superior is iced over.

This city boy will be rooting for the Jack's. Not because they are from the North, but because they are new to the tourney. I along with many other metro fans like change. Whether its Reggie Miracle and Columbia Heights, Corey Millen and Cloquet, or Eric Rasmussen and St Louis Park, its always nice to see some different teams playing for the title. There is nothing worse than to see a tournament filled with the same teams year after year, aka Edina, HM, DE, Moorhead.

[karl(east)]

Nice post Karl. A follow up to that, how is a school like Stillwater viewed? I'm not a metro person, from the south, so from the outside I look at a community like Stillwater as kind of metro due to proximity but kinda on their own, an old river town, a town with a history to it, unlike some of the other burbs. Of course there is the money factor at play.

Good question...obviously they're not North in the sense we normally use the word, have benefited a lot from suburban growth, and they don't have the hockey history. That said, these it is a town with history, and I could see them building something that lasts. Elk River might be a good example of a team that has done this...exurban town that has grown noticeably, but has some history and has built some tradition. (It didn't hurt that Tony Sarsland's teams fit that "hard working northern boy" bill to a tee.) ER isn't North, but (grumbling about 7AA's status as a "northern section" aside) I think Northerners would be a bit more likely to support them against Random Suburb X. The same could apply to Stillwater if they can establish themselves over time.

[defense]

Came up with a reason so simple I feel dumb. Us northerners feel we can relate to other northerners much better than we can relate to the city. The city people, as evidenced by the sprawl of suburbia, and the number of people who vacation out here or own property "up north" really WANT to relate to rural life.

[Imported from MN]

My somewhat vague answer would explain it as "permanence" or something like that.

Look at most of the suburban schools. 50 years ago, half of them would have been in empty farming fields. Others were small towns that look nothing like what they do today. The inner-ring suburbs, which did exist back then, have undergone such major changes in demographics that they're nearly unrecognizable. It is hard to have a sense of history when one's own history, within living memory, is something utterly foreign.

How many people are cradle-to-grave residents of places like Blaine or Eagan? Are there any old guys standing down along the glass who can tell stories of those great Mahtomedi teams of yore? In the North, those stories get woven into the fabric of the town; suburbia, despite often being a lovely place to live, does not lend itself to creating that small-town fabric that endures for more than a generation. A kid growing up in Woodbury today is probably just as likely to wind up in Maple Grove or Chanhassen or Lakeville if he decides to settle in the Metro 10 years from now when he's ready to start a family.

Edina, now, is the exception that proves the rule: it's long been Cakeville, MN, and love it or hate it, it has a very distinct identity, and it's hard not to respect that. Hill-Murray, after a fashion, is similar, at least when it comes to hockey. Private schools have communities, too. There are occasional glimmers of history in places like St. Paul Johnson, and you can bet that, if they ever make it back to the X, they'll be as beloved as a northern team. But pretty much every other Metro school that was any good in the early days of the Tourney is bad now, if it even still exists. (White Bear is the only other exception that comes to mind.) Suburbs rise and fall, while the North plods on--and sometimes it struggles to hang on, but at least there are people trying to make sure it does. There's still a memory of the glory days, either in family or legend or those banners hanging down from the wooden rafters. It's something you can feel, and when you feel it in someone else's rink, you respect it, and it creates this shared identity--the North.

On an unrelated note, style of play has a role in perception, too. It's not always accurate, but there's this sense that small-town boys from blue-collar farming or mining background, and that they have to work hard and hit hard to do well. People love that. Duluth East is admittedly much more cakey, but once again, they're the exception that proves the rule: I remember a reading great quote at some point saying that Randolph's early success came from "beating the cake" (read: softness) out of the East players. His first Tourney team in 1991 came down and pounded the crap out of a favored, Darby Hendrickson-led Richfield team, and that made a pretty big splash. (There ya go, Goldy, I managed to sneak some Randolph praise into my explanantion. ) City people love the mythology of the hard-working northern boys who do all their training on outdoor rinks instead of at some expensive suburban facility. It's not always true, but on average it's probably far more true of northern players than of Metro players. We love the idea of purity in youth sports, and the North still (sort of, kind of) clings to that.

A lot of iron ore miners and sheep herders on the east team this year? Duluth hasn't been that way since the the middle part of the last century. Places like Roseau and EGF can still claim that but Duluth is Charmin soft. Just like the rest of us.

[karl(east)]

My somewhat vague answer would explain it as "permanence" or something like that.

Look at most of the suburban schools. 50 years ago, half of them would have been in empty farming fields. Others were small towns that look nothing like what they do today. The inner-ring suburbs, which did exist back then, have undergone such major changes in demographics that they're nearly unrecognizable. It is hard to have a sense of history when one's own history, within living memory, is something utterly foreign.

How many people are cradle-to-grave residents of places like Blaine or Eagan? Are there any old guys standing down along the glass who can tell stories of those great Mahtomedi teams of yore? In the North, those stories get woven into the fabric of the town; suburbia, despite often being a lovely place to live, does not lend itself to creating that small-town fabric that endures for more than a generation. A kid growing up in Woodbury today is probably just as likely to wind up in Maple Grove or Chanhassen or Lakeville if he decides to settle in the Metro 10 years from now when he's ready to start a family.

Edina, now, is the exception that proves the rule: it's long been Cakeville, MN, and love it or hate it, it has a very distinct identity, and it's hard not to respect that. Hill-Murray, after a fashion, is similar, at least when it comes to hockey. Private schools have communities, too. There are occasional glimmers of history in places like St. Paul Johnson, and you can bet that, if they ever make it back to the X, they'll be as beloved as a northern team. But pretty much every other Metro school that was any good in the early days of the Tourney is bad now, if it even still exists. (White Bear is the only other exception that comes to mind.) Suburbs rise and fall, while the North plods on--and sometimes it struggles to hang on, but at least there are people trying to make sure it does. There's still a memory of the glory days, either in family or legend or those banners hanging down from the wooden rafters. It's something you can feel, and when you feel it in someone else's rink, you respect it, and it creates this shared identity--the North.

On an unrelated note, style of play has a role in perception, too. It's not always accurate, but there's this sense that small-town boys from blue-collar farming or mining background, and that they have to work hard and hit hard to do well. People love that. Duluth East is admittedly much more cakey, but once again, they're the exception that proves the rule: I remember a reading great quote at some point saying that Randolph's early success came from "beating the cake" (read: softness) out of the East players. His first Tourney team in 1991 came down and pounded the crap out of a favored, Darby Hendrickson-led Richfield team, and that made a pretty big splash. (There ya go, Goldy, I managed to sneak some Randolph praise into my explanantion. ) City people love the mythology of the hard-working northern boys who do all their training on outdoor rinks instead of at some expensive suburban facility. It's not always true, but on average it's probably far more true of northern players than of Metro players. We love the idea of purity in youth sports, and the North still (sort of, kind of) clings to that.

A lot of iron ore miners and sheep herders on the east team this year? Duluth hasn't been that way since the the middle part of the last century. Places like Roseau and EGF can still claim that but Duluth is Charmin soft. Just like the rest of us.

Um, did you not read the very next line of the post, which talks about the East exception?

[blueblood]

Another town that lives and dies by the high school hockey team is Elk River.

The "Elkaholic" faithful date back to the birth of the program in the late 60's and had its first good run of teams in the late 70's with players like Paul Ostby (Gophers), Joel Otto, Mike Milless, Chris Lehn; etc.

Having grown up there and played in the old barn in the early 80's, it was great to see the turnout last season at HDM, many of whom are the "Cradle to Gravers" that karl mentions in his previous post.

-bb