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AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:27 am
by defense
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:58 am
by Joe2015
Interesting article: but most of us kind of already knew this was an issue. Are there any solutions?
How about a promotion/relegation system? Divide the state into 8 sections. For year 1, you base it on enrollment with the top 9 playing AA and the rest in Single A. At the end of the season, the teams gets seeded as usual 1 thru 9. Now the 8/9 seed play-in game in each section takes on added meaning, as the loser is demoted to single A within that section for the following season. The team that wins the section in single A then takes its place. Of course of a few seasons, the best teams in the section would work their way into AA with the bottom programs funneling down to single A. And then there would be programs in the middle that bounced back in forth between the two depending on the ebs and flows of their program.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:01 am
by elliott70
But perhaps #8 and #9 try to lose the game and move down to where they have an opportunity to advance to state...….
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:08 am
by Joe2015
elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:01 am
But perhaps #8 and #9 try to lose the game and move down to where they have an opportunity to advance to state...….
Perhaps: but there is a pride factor too. I dont think kids would lose on purpose.
Its like when they talk about a pro team tanking for a higher pick: in reality the players dont give a damn about that and are still trying to win.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:09 am
by 7TIMECHAMPS
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but there is very little difference between Moorhead and the twin cities suburbs. Plenty of money, 5 sheets of ice, and 40,000 people (part of a greater metro area of over 200,000). This isn't your northern teams of the old days.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:13 am
by defense
7TIMECHAMPS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:09 am
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but there is very little difference between Moorhead and the twin cities suburbs. Plenty of money, 5 sheets of ice, and 40,000 people (part of a greater metro area of over 200,000). This isn't your northern teams of the old days.
I really dont think anyone up around section 8 has that illusion.. but ok.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:23 am
by Section 8 guy
Mike McFeely is a basketball guy who Know very little about hockey. Save your breath. And no, northern hockey isn’t ending because Duluth East didn’t make it to the state tournament this year. Move along. There’s nothing to see here.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:30 am
by Sparlimb
I find it comical really. Like the Cities teams aren't a part of the state. of course the wealth and folks that can afford year round training is going to be concentrated down in the metro area. But so what. I remember when Tier I/II came about. We were told that was because the north couldn't compete. Then that year Roseau beat Grand Rapids for the title. And we all knew it was a bunch of bs. East has sent powerhouse teams south and won titles. Grand Rapids has won titles. Roseau has won titles. Moorhead this year isn't the favorite, but could beat any team down here. Heck, Hermantown would have had a great shot at winning the AA title. St. Cloud Catherdral, yes a private but still non-metro team, beat Andover. Warroad could have given any AA team trouble. Some 8AA folks bemoaned Buffalo and STMA joining the section. But still really hasn't been an issue. And for all the great Elk River and Andover teams, there haven't been a lot coming out of 7AA. Seems like a lazy article to me.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:33 am
by HSPuckFan96
Dwindling enrollments become an issue in northern MN and the MSHSL, as bad as they may be at many things, has to try to fill the sections. I'm sure the STMA's, Rogers, Elk Rivers, Andovers, Forest Lakes etc...would rather stay near the metro, where they play most of their regular season games, but they can't have 4-6 team sections from up north and 10-12 team sections in the metro. It won't happen, but if a few more northern schools would opt up, they could force those metro teams out and have a couple of "out state" teams in every year.
Unfortunately hockey really is driven by economics and numbers. No matter what anyone wants, the old days of the smallest teams competing with the largest, on a regular basis, are gone.
I would love to see two out state teams represent 7AA and 8AA every year, but they need to find a legit way to make that happen, or keep 1/4-1/2 of those sections with north metro teams.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:37 am
by BlueLineSpecial
I really don't see the point in this article. Of course out-state, small communities aren't going to be able to regularly compete on the largest stage with huge (and wealthy) suburban communities and private schools. Thus, the class system. A & AA. It exists in most of the big sports and in most every state. A lot of other sports have several more classes - see basketball and football. The big classes are for the big schools typically, and the lower classes are for mid-to-smallish schools. Is the Spring Grove Gazette going to write an article whining about how AAAAA football in MN is only representative of big suburban schools? If it's that big a problem, expand the classes in MN:
A: 0 - 200 students
AA: 201-375 students
AAA: 376 - 550 students
AAAA: 551 - 1000 students
AAAAA: 1001 - up students
Anyone can opt up with a two year commitment, just like now. There you go. Now everybody in the state is represented.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:33 pm
by Section 8 guy
That’s my point. McFeely doesn’t know enough about hockey to understand that his article is pointless and unnecessary......or even the meaning of what he is writing and how it fits in the landscape which he has no knowledge of.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:43 pm
by edgeless2
Sparlimb wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:30 am
I find it comical really. Like the Cities teams aren't a part of the state. of course the wealth and folks that can afford year round training is going to be concentrated down in the metro area. But so what. I remember when Tier I/II came about. We were told that was because the north couldn't compete. Then that year Roseau beat Grand Rapids for the title. And we all knew it was a bunch of bs. East has sent powerhouse teams south and won titles. Grand Rapids has won titles. Roseau has won titles. Moorhead this year isn't the favorite, but could beat any team down here. Heck, Hermantown would have had a great shot at winning the AA title. St. Cloud Catherdral, yes a private but still non-metro team, beat Andover. Warroad could have given any AA team trouble. Some 8AA folks bemoaned Buffalo and STMA joining the section. But still really hasn't been an issue. And for all the great Elk River and Andover teams, there haven't been a lot coming out of 7AA. Seems like a lazy article to me.
This is fantastic....but no chance at AA
Quarters would be a chip game. See St Thomas
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:07 pm
by defense
I thought the only angle he was taking in writing this article was that the class A tournement is a quality tournement. Not sure the point was to bash the AA tournament, just to state the facts, that it is indeed made of mostly teams from the metro. Blame is correctly placed on economics, population etc. AA hockey really is quality hockey, but since more schools have quit opting up, class A really has become a great tournament and more representative of the entire state.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:13 pm
by rainier2
defense wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:07 pm
I thought the only angle he was taking in writing this article was that the class A tournement is a quality tournement. Not sure the point was to bash the AA tournament, just to state the facts, that it is indeed made of mostly teams from the metro. Blame is correctly placed on economics, population etc. AA hockey really is quality hockey,
but since more schools have quit opting up, class A really has become a great tournament and more representative of the entire state.
Preposterous Statement Tournament winner right here, folks. You can't be serious. How many non-big city schools have won the Class A tournament or even made it to the A title game the last twenty years?
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:41 pm
by defense
I thought it was about the tournement field, not just the title game ( only two teams get into that thing). But I may be preposterously mistaken.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:52 pm
by goldy313
He has some “fuzzy” math....15 of the last 16 1AA teams are from Lakeville just isn’t true. Rochester Century went in 2005, 2007, and 2009, Farmington went in 2016. That is 12 of the last 16, not 15. Still a significant number but not as dire as reported.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:11 pm
by Cobber
I have often wondered if the tournament would be as big as it is today if the high school league would have put northern schools in with the twin cities schools because they needed to have the best teams in the state in the state tournament.The teams would have looked something like this the first 30 years.Roseau,Warroad,Theif River Falls,Eveleth,International Falls,Coleraine,Duluth and Rochester.I don’t think that would have been good for high school hockey or the state tournament.Many of these teams had a tougher time getting out of their section than winning the state tournament but it was still a state tournament. Can anyone tell me how many different sections the Lake Conference is in.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:26 pm
by jdh
Cobber wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:11 pm
I have often wondered if the tournament would be as big as it is today if the high school league would have put northern schools in with the twin cities schools because they needed to have the best teams in the state in the state tournament.The teams would have looked something like this the first 30 years.Roseau,Warroad,Theif River Falls,Eveleth,International Falls,Coleraine,Duluth and Rochester.I don’t think that would have been good for high school hockey or the state tournament.Many of these teams had a tougher time getting out of their section than winning the state tournament but it was still a state tournament. Can anyone tell me how many different sections the Lake Conference is in.
The only South school to win was St Paul Johnson until Edina beat Warroad on 1969, and only one final had two South teams competing.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:58 pm
by grindiangrad-80
As long as I've been watching hockey the headlines are always the same- This is the end of an era and the start of a new one. One thing is always constant-
Minnesota hockey is unrivaled.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:34 am
by East Side Pioneer Guy
Tonight's northern representative is a traditional small school power, the Hill-Murray Pioneers.
Yes, thank you, thank you for your support. Not that we need it. Or really want it.
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:07 am
by northwoods oldtimer
East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:34 am
Tonight's northern representative is a traditional small school power, the Hill-Murray Pioneers.
Yes, thank you, thank you for your support. Not that we need it. Or really want it.
you funny guy
Re: AA tournament not a state tournament?
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:12 am
by defense
East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:34 am
Tonight's northern representative is a traditional small school power, the Hill-Murray Pioneers.
Yes, thank you, thank you for your support. Not that we need it. Or really want it.
Most people figure all 100 of you are just fine slapping eachothers' backs lol lol
Hill looked damn good last night
Quarters would be a chip game. See St Thomas