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Is this really what amateur hockey is about?

warmskin wrote:Is this really what amateur hockey is about?

Looks like Edina went with 2 lines in the final period, 3rd and 4th.

warmskin wrote:Is this really what amateur hockey is about?

Yes.

I was at the game, at least most of it. First off, kudos to the Lake for tweaking the schedule so the Hopkins games count twice which allows the Royals to pick up 4 more non-league games.

Hopkins doesn't have much when compared to the rest of the league. It isn't the kids' or coaches' fault; there just isn't much to work with and in the short term nobody can do anything about it.

Edina scored a couple in the first 3 minutes and then the Royals played pretty well and managed a 5+ minute stretch with no goals allowed. Strong goaltending kept things in check. Toward the end of the period a few quick ones made it 5-0 at the session break.

Second period is when it got frenzied. Hopkins tried the other goalie to not shatter the starter's confidence. I don't know if he had a save in the next 8 minutes as an array of tic-tac-boom passing led to some pretty open net goals and other shots were post-and-in. There was nothing about goaltending leading to the margin. Edina is great - one of the school's best teams ever - and Hopkins was overmatched. (JV score was 18-0)

Third period saw the initial netminder back. The lower lines really impressed after not being relied upon to score much this season. You can be pretty good in Edina and not sniff playing time on Varsity.

(Consider this:
4 standout Edina kids that are or will play Division I are not on this team, but were part of the youth program. Clayton Phillips, Grant Silianoff, Peter Tabor, and Jack Lagerstrom. Another pretty amazing HS player is at EP.
Plus two NCAA commits aren't even on Varsity yet. Ben Dexheimer and Nick Williams.)

Super happy to see one of the players record his first goal. He's barely played this season as Edina hasn't had many injuries where they've needed to use other players.

Hopkins has won 6 games this year. Woodbury, Rogers, Hastings, Luverne, Holy Angels, Chanhassen. Much better to remember those than their run through the Lake. They lost a home game this season 12-0 to Cloquet-Esko-Carlton, so tonight's result shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Next up are Minnetonka and Wayzata. Rest up.

Was that Edina that was on the ice or did the Russian national hockey team suite up in Hornets uniforms?

warmskin wrote:Is this really what amateur hockey is about?

The Hopkins boys and girls basketball teams have been on the other end of these kind of games so I don't feel too sorry.

Three passes in the zone, and only after that shoot on your back hand.

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:Three passes in the zone, and only after that shoot on your back hand.

I think that would be more humiliating than loosing 20-0. Sounds like Edina did the best they could in a bad situation.

mulefarm wrote:

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:Three passes in the zone, and only after that shoot on your back hand.

I think that would be more humiliating than loosing 20-0. Sounds like Edina did the best they could in a bad situation.

Yup. There is not much you can do in hockey. A friend of mine made the good point that if they were serious about making games not reach these levels of embarrassment they should change the running time to anytime the differential is 6+ and not just in the third.

That may not help, but it should be a start.

Is Giles angry that Edina missed a PAT? Or did they try the two-point conversion?

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:Three passes in the zone, and only after that shoot on your back hand.

Preposterous.

Edina has a 4th line that beat out tons of other kids to make Varsity and has barely played this season. There is no way last night they'd do anything but prove they can play.

Edina has a 3rd line that contributes in all games, but doesn't always score. Last night they got to produce.

Edina has players on the top lines that deserve post-season recognition. None are in the Top 10 for goals scored. Only one is above 20th for points scored. For about half the game they got their chance to put up some numbers like other players do against an inferior opponent.

Most Duluth East games have been 7+ margins in the past 3 weeks. A guy from Duluth Marshall tallied 16 goals in their first four games, which were won by a combined score of 34-2. Three passes and only shoot with your backhand?

Hornets stopped playing their top guys pretty early in this one. At no point did they rub it in. It wasn't a farce, which is what it would have looked like if they stopped advancing or stopped trying.

What it was is a mismatch. Nothing really good comes out of a game like this.

The fourth line "proved" something? What, that they can shoot fish in a barrel? Was Giles really impressed? Is he going to move guys up based on that? And you say I'm preposterous? Physician, heal thyself.

I've never seen a 20-0 game at the high school level. I've seen blow outs, but not a complete blow out like that. I have seen complete blow outs at lower levels. The guys that get a goal every couple games think it's their chance to get a hat trick. The guys who rarely score figure it's their chance to score. The better team gets sloppy. Back hand shooting is a skill every kid can work on, much more so than forehand shooting.

Maybe the Pioneers' 21-0 win over Central and 17-0 win over Humboldt in their undefeated 1983 season compare just a bit? And I don't recall Skrypek resting his top lines for half the game.

No doubt it was a mismatch. But Hopkins beat the top lines of Hastings 5-2 (who beat Hill Murray) and Woodbury. Bad teams no doubt, but we're talking Edina's fourth line here. Hard to see what they could have down other than refused to shoot.

Rich Clarke wrote:Maybe the Pioneers' 21-0 win over Central and 17-0 win over Humboldt in their undefeated 1983 season compare just a bit?

Yeah, I think so. I reckon every game around 20-0 looks about the same.

A few years ago USA Hockey changed the format for Tier II Nationals. There were so many games like this it was head scratching. Of course, that led to further revisions and things are much better now in terms of competitiveness.

Lake whacked half the Hopkins games. It seems like a lot has been done to prevent more of these.

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:The fourth line "proved" something? What, that they can shoot fish in a barrel? Was Giles really impressed? Is he going to move guys up based on that? And you say I'm preposterous? Physician, heal thyself.

I've never seen a 20-0 game at the high school level. I've seen blow outs, but not a complete blow out like that. I have seen complete blow outs at lower levels. The guys that get a goal every couple games think it's their chance to get a hat trick. The guys who rarely score figure it's their chance to score. The better team gets sloppy. Back hand shooting is a skill every kid can work on, much more so than forehand shooting.

http://www.inforum.com/content/spuds-sh ... -27-0-rout

It was around '83 when the City Conference changed the schedule. STA, Johnson and HM played each other 3 times. Those three played Central, Humboldt, and maybe Highland once. They played Harding and I suppose Como twice.

Each series was good for a total of 6 points; so each game might be worth 2, 3, or 6 points as the case may be.

In '84 Johnson had a very nice team. On one night, Johnson played Central in the first game, HM played in the second. Skrypek was disgusted to see the Govies running up the score and padding their stats, something he had always put the brakes on for his teams.

I guess these games are like getting cavities. You do your best to avoid them, but they still happen.

Apparently when they were up 8-0 they needed 12 more just to be safe.

Nice sportsmanship Edina. Going to play Ely and Moose Lake next?

Edina has beat the heck out of some good teams this year. I guess they could dump the puck in from the red line and sit back and play D but that doesn't feel much better when you are on the south end of that either. It's a tough spot to be in.

Also, when you let up a little, it seems like you are more apt to get injured. I think you are better off getting criticized for pouring it on. JMHO.

As mentioned above, it's simply a very lopsided mismatch. Looks like Giles did the best to call off the dogs and just play his 3rd and 4th lines but it's difficult to ask them to not play hard when they finally get a chance.

I was at a Holy Angels game several years ago when they were winning championships and a team that was a powerhouse from out of state came in to play them. Unfortunately the out of state team was having a down year. HA was up 10-0 midway through and Trebil made his team dump the puck into the zone at the blue line for the rest of the game and not allow any forecheckers to cross the blue line. They had a line change at one point and a HA player found himself with the puck at the blue line and nobody in front of him so he skated in and scored. After the 2nd period that kid got sent home.

It's not like when Ohio State was blowing a team out in football back in the day and a reporter asked Woody Hayes whey he went for two in such a lopsided game. His response: "Because they wouldn't let me go for three."

housegoat32 wrote:Apparently when they were up 8-0 they needed 12 more just to be safe.

Nice sportsmanship Edina. Going to play Ely and Moose Lake next?

Hopkins is in their conference. They have no choice. Feel free to move them from the Lake and Edina won't schedule them.

Edina should be taken outback and beat with a switch.


Oh, no, wait.
Edina and Hopkins should both be applauded for going out there and playing the game and doing their best.

No shame in that.

As I recall MSHSL has some rules about a school not playing with their conference for just one sport, like they have some hoops to jump through.

But reasonable people should be able to figure something out. Maybe teams should be able to trade places for one sport. Benilde is down this year so this might not be the best example, but why couldn't Hopkins & Benilde trade conferences for hockey? Seems like it would be a in all around.

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:As I recall MSHSL has some rules about a school not playing with their conference for just one sport, like they have some hoops to jump through.

But reasonable people should be able to figure something out. Maybe teams should be able to trade places for one sport. Benilde is down this year so this might not be the best example, but why couldn't Hopkins & Benilde trade conferences for hockey? Seems like it would be a in all around.

Hopkins has struggled this year and last, but they really aren't that bad of a team each year. People assume they are bad cause they are guaranteed 7 or 8 losses in their conference. It was only a few years ago they beat and tied Hermantown. They can usually give some teams a good game, obviously they rarely beat another Lake team, but it is not like they lose 20-0 every year.
If you look at their roster, their top 5 scorers this year are juniors and sophomores and their backup goalie who has won 2 out of 3 games started, including a shutout of Chanhassen, is just a freshman. I don't expect Hopkins to keep losing 20-0.

A few years back when Richfield was fielding a team that could compete with most single A teams, they were in a conference that contained STA, HM, and a few other real top notch teams. They worked out a modified conference schedule where they played a few of those schools only once (I believe that Sibley and Simley also did this at the time) and filled in the rest with non-conference games. It was better for everyone. The STA's and HM's don't benefit from those type of games that to them don't really mean anything and the Richfields and Sibleys/Simleys don't need it either.

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:I guess these games are like getting cavities. You do your best to avoid them, but they still happen.

Yes, very good explanation.

Today's comments from you and others are much more sensible. Edina didn't do anything wrong. Hopkins didn't either. I just am not sure people will ever agree on what's right.