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Not sure if it's a misprint, but it shows this huge co-op moving to class A? Error, right?

I don't think so. Their Bantam team played A this year and they were very good. Maybe they dropped a town from their co-op????

Mite-dad wrote:I don't think so. Their Bantam team played A this year and they were very good. Maybe they dropped a town from their co-op????

I've been told by some that the whole three high school co-op went down to A. I've also been told that there's no possible way that they could..

?

Talked to a higher up in the section and he said they were able to keep their full co-op. He also said that many are very puzzled.

The co-op has ranged from around 2000 to 1880 students over the last five years. These numbers would put them way past well known AA programs like:

Bloomington Jefferson 1543
St. Michael - Albertville 1314
Apple Valley 1638
Andover 1614
Would also put them past many AA programs a lot *smaller and weaker than they are.

The Monticello co-op is no where near a hard knock life case... So how possible? Inside workings?

Bump

Some details on this one at the bottom of today's Strib article on realignment for you, Bo:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/29622 ... page=2&c=y

So by the same token, we should bump down St. Franny, CI, Andover, and anyone who may have struggled in the past. Its called work ethic!!! Going to the tourney is a privelege, making it isn't a right and should not be expected!

The old Westie Head Coach smart move, a couple of key things their enrollment is 1133 which is only 60 young chickens away from being AAAA themselves. They are losing another kid to Breck next year. With MAMAL being so close to AAAA Westie is foaming from the mouth with his freshmen class that had a great year, stop Ward stop Westie. stop MAMAL. westie will retire soon.


The bigger concern is where does it stop? River Lakes for example, their enrollment from their main school is Rocori is 679, but they also get kids from Paynesville, St John's, Albany, Melrose and New London Spicer. With Willmar program struggling so bad if you are a good player you will transfer a few short minutes 10 to be exact and transfer to New -London and play for River Lakes. If you are the head coach for Willmar or Sauk Centre hockey programs your programs will never recover.

No one is going to leave Willmar to play for River Lakes...

Why would no one leave Willmar for River Lakes?

karl(east) wrote:Some details on this one at the bottom of today's Strib article on realignment for you, Bo:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/29622 ... page=2&c=y

Thanks, Karl

I doubt the kids from Annandale and Maple Lake are way down in the talent pool if they're getting to Monticello for hockey.. Two other schools with their own football programs - etc.. and I'm sure some of their top athletes play hockey.

How many in the high school program are from Annandale and Maple Lake is what the guy should refer to.

Pine City/Rush City play in 5A and they have less students than Annandale - Maple Lake alone... Then the kicker is that Monticello is added and they should almost be AA on their own.

MAML would be very competitive in 8AA starting next year and in to the future.. And now they seemed to have pulled a fast one with the switch to A hockey..

Yes the old Sheldon Westie pulled a fast one along with River Lakes, RL is a young program that covers 3/4 of Stearns County and will be competitive in 2 years fully expecting them to be upper half of the Central Lakes Cionference.

How many Annandale and Maple Lake lake kids were on the varsity roster this year? And what is the predicted number for next year?

MrBoDangles wrote:How many Annandale and Maple Lake lake kids were on the varsity roster this year? And what is the predicted number for next year?

Must be enough to keep the MAML folks from saying....

in2hockey wrote:No one is going to leave Willmar to play for River Lakes...

River Lakes program is in far better shape than Willmar at the moment.

Sotaboy wrote:So by the same token, we should bump down St. Franny, CI, Andover, and anyone who may have struggled in the past. Its called work ethic!!! Going to the tourney is a privelege, making it isn't a right and should not be expected!

What makes you think they will make the tourney if they drop down to A?

Where is F3? wrote:

Sotaboy wrote:So by the same token, we should bump down St. Franny, CI, Andover, and anyone who may have struggled in the past. Its called work ethic!!! Going to the tourney is a privelege, making it isn't a right and should not be expected!

What makes you think they will make the tourney if they drop down to A?

I'll answer for him.. Not saying they will, but because they would have been competitive in 8AA next year. Very surprised the decision makers didn't look at all the factors since MAML will be trending stronger than quite a few 8AA teams..

So.... Because an AA sized program is going to be competing against some very small A sized programs in 5A. Simple as that.

MrBoDangles wrote:

Where is F3? wrote:

Sotaboy wrote:So by the same token, we should bump down St. Franny, CI, Andover, and anyone who may have struggled in the past. Its called work ethic!!! Going to the tourney is a privelege, making it isn't a right and should not be expected!

What makes you think they will make the tourney if they drop down to A?

I'll answer for him.. Not saying they will, but because they would have been competitive in 8AA next year. Very surprised the decision makers didn't look at all the factors since MAML will be trending stronger than quite a few 8AA teams..

So.... Because an AA sized program is going to be competing against some very small A sized programs in 5A. Simple as that.

They haven't been competitive in 8AA in their entire existence. They haven't been past the section quarters ever. Just because they have a solid group coming up, doesn't translate into varsity success. That also doesn't mean they will dominate the smaller A schools.

Where is F3? wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

Where is F3? wrote: What makes you think they will make the tourney if they drop down to A?

I'll answer for him.. Not saying they will, but because they would have been competitive in 8AA next year. Very surprised the decision makers didn't look at all the factors since MAML will be trending stronger than quite a few 8AA teams..

So.... Because an AA sized program is going to be competing against some very small A sized programs in 5A. Simple as that.

They haven't been competitive in 8AA in their entire existence. They haven't been past the section quarters ever. Just because they have a solid group coming up, doesn't translate into varsity success. That also doesn't mean they will dominate the smaller A schools.

All in the timing

And now they're moving to class A when they know they'll be most competitive..

- Your number 4 ranked bantam team beat nearly every A bantam team they played that play A in HS.

- Your bantam team beat nearly all AA teams they faced.

- They also beat 8AA rival Buffalo's AA Bantam team 5-1 and 3-2 and they'll stay in AA where they should be..

- Your bantam team dominated 6A teams that are more in your area with a 10 2-1 record. Only Sartell gave them ANY competition.. Ended up 2-2-1 against them.. You think 5A is stronger?

- You keep trying to deflect to River Lakes, but your bantams also beat them 3-1 and then 7-0.... So...

- Your sympathy case of MAML high school's hockey program was able to beat Rogers and St. Michael Albertville last season and played many other good AA teams to tight games... Teams that are WAY beyond most 5A type competition. They also bring back lots of talent from last year's team and the talented sophomores from their bantam team that others kept talking about..

- They would have been upper half in 8AA next year and would have only climbed from there.

- The MAML program knew what was coming and pulled a fast one on the High School League..

Cambridge would have been the next logical program to move into 5A..

-They're close to to the other 5A schools to build rivalries and attendance.

- They had to combine at the youth levels with St. Francis to play single A and their combined top teams were still weaker than MAML's

- Cambridge has 600 less students than MAML's co-op and I'm sure the household incomes are less.

Would only make sense..

MrBoDangles wrote:

Where is F3? wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote: I'll answer for him.. Not saying they will, but because they would have been competitive in 8AA next year. Very surprised the decision makers didn't look at all the factors since MAML will be trending stronger than quite a few 8AA teams..

So.... Because an AA sized program is going to be competing against some very small A sized programs in 5A. Simple as that.

They haven't been competitive in 8AA in their entire existence. They haven't been past the section quarters ever. Just because they have a solid group coming up, doesn't translate into varsity success. That also doesn't mean they will dominate the smaller A schools.

All in the timing

And now they're moving to class A when they know they'll be most competitive..

- Your number 4 ranked bantam team beat nearly every A bantam team they played that play A in HS.

- Your bantam team beat nearly all AA teams they faced.

- They also beat 8AA rival Buffalo's AA Bantam team 5-1 and 3-2 and they'll stay in AA where they should be..

- Your bantam team dominated 6A teams that are more in your area with a 10 2-1 record. Only Sartell gave them ANY competition.. Ended up 2-2-1 against them.. You think 5A is stronger?

- You keep trying to deflect to River Lakes, but your bantams also beat them 3-1 and then 7-0.... So...

- Your sympathy case of MAML high school's hockey program was able to beat Rogers and St. Michael Albertville last season and played many other good AA teams to tight games... Teams that are WAY beyond most 5A type competition. They also bring back lots of talent from last year's team and the talented sophomores from their bantam team that others kept talking about..

- They would have been upper half in 8AA next year and would have only climbed from there.

- The MAML program knew what was coming and pulled a fast one on the High School League..

First off, you keep saying YOUR bantam A team like MAML is my team. I have no affiliation with MAML whatsoever. I also only referenced River lakes when comparing the program to Willmars.

Second, Yes they beat Rogers and STMA, but they also lost to Sauk Rapids, Sartell, Princeton, Providence Academy, Little Falls, and Cathedral- All A teams. An no offense to STMA, but they were over hyped and it showed in the Sections.

Third, like I said before, just because they had some success at the bantam level doesn't mean they will automatically have success at the High School level. Also, they play A not AA at the bantam level so quit acting like they are a powerhouse. Never said 5A was stronger btw, just arguing why the move is being made.

Fourth, you claim they would be top half of 8AA next year. They won 2 section games all year (Becker-BL twice) and you think somehow because of incoming players they will see the top half of the section? Not a chance.

Lastly, I am not defending MAML but I can totally see why they want to move to A. Just because they are moving down to A doesn't mean they are going to be a powerhouse. I doubt that will happen anytime soon. If MAML wins the class A state tournament in the next 20 years I will gladly eat my words. Will they be more competitive? Absolutely. Will they dominate the competition as you may think? NOPE

Where is F3? wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

Where is F3? wrote: They haven't been competitive in 8AA in their entire existence. They haven't been past the section quarters ever. Just because they have a solid group coming up, doesn't translate into varsity success. That also doesn't mean they will dominate the smaller A schools.

All in the timing

And now they're moving to class A when they know they'll be most competitive..

- Your number 4 ranked bantam team beat nearly every A bantam team they played that play A in HS.

- Your bantam team beat nearly all AA teams they faced.

- They also beat 8AA rival Buffalo's AA Bantam team 5-1 and 3-2 and they'll stay in AA where they should be..

- Your bantam team dominated 6A teams that are more in your area with a 10 2-1 record. Only Sartell gave them ANY competition.. Ended up 2-2-1 against them.. You think 5A is stronger?

- You keep trying to deflect to River Lakes, but your bantams also beat them 3-1 and then 7-0.... So...

- Your sympathy case of MAML high school's hockey program was able to beat Rogers and St. Michael Albertville last season and played many other good AA teams to tight games... Teams that are WAY beyond most 5A type competition. They also bring back lots of talent from last year's team and the talented sophomores from their bantam team that others kept talking about..

- They would have been upper half in 8AA next year and would have only climbed from there.

- The MAML program knew what was coming and pulled a fast one on the High School League..

First off, you keep saying YOUR bantam A team like MAML is my team. I have no affiliation with MAML whatsoever. I also only referenced River lakes when comparing the program to Willmars.

Second, Yes they beat Rogers and STMA, but they also lost to Sauk Rapids, Sartell, Princeton, Providence Academy, Little Falls, and Cathedral- All A teams. An no offense to STMA, but they were over hyped and it showed in the Sections.

Third, like I said before, just because they had some success at the bantam level doesn't mean they will automatically have success at the High School level. Also, they play A not AA at the bantam level so quit acting like they are a powerhouse. Never said 5A was stronger btw, just arguing why the move is being made.

Fourth, you claim they would be top half of 8AA next year. They won 2 section games all year (Becker-BL twice) and you think somehow because of incoming players they will see the top half of the section? Not a chance.

Lastly, I am not defending MAML but I can totally see why they want to move to A. Just because they are moving down to A doesn't mean they are going to be a powerhouse. I doubt that will happen anytime soon. If MAML wins the class A state tournament in the next 20 years I will gladly eat my words. Will they be more competitive? Absolutely. Will they dominate the competition as you may think? NOPE

You're missing the whole point of school attendance numbers and better candidates to move to class A... And you sure know a lot about them to not know much about the situation.

Four of their top ten leading scorers were sophomores and three others were juniors. Their leading scorer was even a sophomore. Add in this year's talked about freshman group on the bantams and you will see the best MAML HS team ever coming up.....and by far, right? Time to move to class A now? That's a joke and anybody with a straight head knows it.

Their bantam scores show that they would have fit perfectly in the AA youth ranks.
Ahead or AT MINIMUM on par in the rankings with 8AA's
Rogers
Bemidji
Buffalo
Brainerd
Roseau

Bantams almost always translate to HS, actually.. Perfect fit where they were!

Bemidji opted up to AA with a quality group... And MAML is going down now to pillage?

You should reference back to the article's claims and some of the other posts for guidance.

I've read the article, and understand it quite well, thanks for the "guidance".

I understand that it is rare for the MSHSL to send a AA school to A based on competitive play. I also know there are other AA schools who would be a better candidate to drop down to A based on their smaller enrollment size and weaker program, you named St. Francis and Cambridge as possible candidates. I never denied any of those facts. You might want to go back and read what I was arguing for "guidance".

I understand your point. You are asking, "if this decision is based on not being able to compete, then why are they leaving AA when they are going to have their most competitive team ever?" I get it.

What I'm trying to point out is that MAML has not been competitive in 8AA ever. They have zero postseason success. Look at the section record on minnhock.com for some guidance. As the article says, that's why they are moving down. I understand they have a good crop coming up but don't crown them 5A champs yet. Lets say if your prediction is correct that they would be in the top half of section 8AA next year or the years to come. They get seeded 4th for example. Do you honestly believe that you can see that team beating out Moorhead, Roseau, Bemidji, or Brainerd at a consistent level? I don't blame them for moving down one bit.

For the record, I agree with many posters here that the state tournament should be a privilege and shouldn't be handed to teams (I don't think 5A is a good spot for them) but how can you expect a program to stay where they are if the best they can hope for is reaching the section semifinals.

Where is F3? wrote:I've read the article, and understand it quite well, thanks for the "guidance".

I understand that it is rare for the MSHSL to send a AA school to A based on competitive play. I also know there are other AA schools who would be a better candidate to drop down to A based on their smaller enrollment size and weaker program, you named St. Francis and Cambridge as possible candidates. I never denied any of those facts. You might want to go back and read what I was arguing for "guidance".

I understand your point. You are asking, "if this decision is based on not being able to compete, then why are they leaving AA when they are going to have their most competitive team ever?" I get it.

What I'm trying to point out is that MAML has not been competitive in 8AA ever. They have zero postseason success. Look at the section record on minnhock.com for some guidance. As the article says, that's why they are moving down. I understand they have a good crop coming up but don't crown them 5A champs yet. Lets say if your prediction is correct that they would be in the top half of section 8AA next year or the years to come. They get seeded 4th for example. Do you honestly believe that you can see that team beating out Moorhead, Roseau, Bemidji, or Brainerd at a consistent level? I don't blame them for moving down one bit.

For the record, I agree with many posters here that the state tournament should be a privilege and shouldn't be handed to teams (I don't think 5A is a good spot for them) but how can you expect a program to stay where they are if the best they can hope for is reaching the section semifinals.

Your mentality that you have no chance is the problem and follows suit with the MAML leadership.

- Moorhead might be tough in a few years... So you bow down and quit?

- St Michael Albertville might be tough, but you guys were able to beat them last year and your team was young..

- I showed how MAML was as good, if not better than many of the other 8AA teams at bantams.

Why wouldn't someone see MAML as a future contender in 8AA? I sure do!

You are really showing a trophy grab mentality with your last post since there are plenty of other AA programs that face tough competition in sections...

Glad you agree, but time to buck up!