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can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:25 pm
by illhaveanother
I have noticed a trend, are we as parents willing to call our coach a bully ?
If so would Herb ever been able to coach?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:59 pm
by northwoods oldtimer
Hockeymoms run the show today. Energized by politically correct administrations flower power generational B.S. Its enough to make a billy goat puke! Call the admin little johnny got looked at cross eyed by the coach!
Reason they stay home until they are 30 now days.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:43 pm
by oldschoolpuckster
northwoods oldtimer wrote:Hockeymoms run the show today. Energized by politically correct administrations flower power generational B.S. Its enough to make a billy goat puke! Call the admin little johnny got looked at cross eyed by the coach!
Reason they stay home until they are 30 now days.
AMEN!!
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:40 pm
by DrGaf
northwoods oldtimer wrote:Hockeymoms run the show today. Energized by politically correct administrations flower power generational B.S. Its enough to make a billy goat puke! Call the admin little johnny got looked at cross eyed by the coach!
Reason they stay home until they are 30 now days.
DAMN DIRTY HIPPIES ... GET OFF MY LAWN AND OUT OF MY HOCKEY RINK!!!
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:14 pm
by coco2
No a coach can't be a bully if they're a good coach. But you must think of the team first just like they should.
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:31 pm
by defense
[quote="illhaveanother"]I have noticed a trend, are we as parents willing to call our coach a bully ?
If so would Herb ever been able to coach?[/quote]
Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:10 am
by East Side Pioneer Guy
DAMN DIRTY HIPPIES ... GET OFF MY LAWN AND OUT OF MY HOCKEY RINK!!![/quote]
Heh heh heh.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:43 am
by old goalie85
The pussification of America.
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:02 am
by SCBlueLiner
defense wrote:Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
The problem is too many parents today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard nosed coaching is seen to often as mean, intimidating, bullying, you're being too hard on the kids. Mamas want to protect their innocent babies.
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:24 am
by defense
SCBlueLiner wrote:defense wrote:Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
The problem is too many parents today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard nosed coaching is seen to often as mean, intimidating, bullying, you're being too hard on the kids. Mamas want to protect their innocent babies.
Amen
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:37 am
by SuperStar
East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:DAMN DIRTY HIPPIES ... GET OFF MY LAWN AND OUT OF MY HOCKEY RINK!!!
Heh heh heh.[/quote]
Love it!
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:44 pm
by Defensive Zone
SCBlueLiner wrote:defense wrote:Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
The problem is too many parents today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard nosed coaching is seen to often as mean, intimidating, bullying, you're being too hard on the kids. Mamas want to protect their innocent babies.
Let's turn it around. The problem is too many coaches today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard-nosed coaching is sometimes driven to a level of meanness, intimidating, and bullying. Mamas will and have a right to protect their innocent babies. Sorry boys.
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:56 pm
by northwoods oldtimer
Defensive Zone wrote:SCBlueLiner wrote:defense wrote:Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
The problem is too many parents today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard nosed coaching is seen to often as mean, intimidating, bullying, you're being too hard on the kids. Mamas want to protect their innocent babies.
Let's turn it around. The problem is too many coaches today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard-nosed coaching is sometimes driven to a level of meanness, intimidating, and bullying. Mamas will and have a right to protect their innocent babies. Sorry boys.
Sure, there is just so much "abuse" among hockey coaches going on today.
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:43 pm
by SCBlueLiner
Defensive Zone wrote:SCBlueLiner wrote:defense wrote:Of course a coach can bully. But I am defining bullying as seriously singleing out a player and, well , bullying him, over a period of time to where that player is seriously being negatively impacted. This is not to be confused with good old fashioned hard nose coaching. And I don't see Herb Brooks methods as bullying by the way.
The problem is too many parents today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard nosed coaching is seen to often as mean, intimidating, bullying, you're being too hard on the kids. Mamas want to protect their innocent babies.
Let's turn it around. The problem is too many coaches today cannot differentiate between the two. Good old fashioned hard-nosed coaching is sometimes driven to a level of meanness, intimidating, and bullying. Mamas will and have a right to protect their innocent babies. Sorry boys.
Give mama a whistle and she can coach the team then.
Can a coach be a bully
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:41 pm
by illhaveanother
We are talking high school coaches,
Mama's baby is grown up?
Maybe that's the problem
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:45 pm
by Marty
NO.
Being tough does not require bully or demeaning behavior. It is no longer acceptable in schools or the workplace. If you cannot lead your life to that level ... then face the possible loss of a job or lawsuits.
There is no need to be a bully. Have a coach-player-parent meeting early on and lay out the rules and any disciplinary actions (especially those tougher than MSHSL) out in written form. Communicate with the players (kids) why they are not playing or playing less. The coach should then follow his rules whether it is his first line center or back up goalie.
If a player makes a mistake on or off the ice and he misses a shift, a period or a game ... it can be done and done sternly ... but with out being demeaning.
A HS coach is foremost a teacher. Set the example, lead by example.
If the behavior of a coach is not allowed by teachers in the school nor students in the school then it should not be allowed in the locker room or on the ice.
Do coaches break the anti-bully rules. Sure ... as parents, coaches, supervisors ... we all have done things wrong or wish we could do it over. It is those with a pattern of bully behavior that should be removed.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:48 pm
by thespellchecker
The Roseville goddess mom goes after the school district for bullying years before adding the hockey coach to her agenda.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:54 pm
by SCBlueLiner
Marty wrote:NO.
Being tough does not require bully or demeaning behavior. It is no longer acceptable in schools or the workplace. If you cannot lead your life to that level ... then face the possible loss of a job or lawsuits.
There is no need to be a bully. Have a coach-player-parent meeting early on and lay out the rules and any disciplinary actions (especially those tougher than MSHSL) out in written form. Communicate with the players (kids) why they are not playing or playing less. The coach should then follow his rules whether it is his first line center or back up goalie.
If a player makes a mistake on or off the ice and he misses a shift, a period or a game ... it can be done and done sternly ... but with out being demeaning.
A HS coach is foremost a teacher. Set the example, lead by example.
If the behavior of a coach is not allowed by teachers in the school nor students in the school then it should not be allowed in the locker room or on the ice.
Do coaches break the anti-bully rules. Sure ... as parents, coaches, supervisors ... we all have done things wrong or wish we could do it over. It is those with a pattern of bully behavior that should be removed.
I agree with everything you say Marty. Problem is, like I stated earlier, too many parents these days confuse the style of coaching you are talking about with the coach being a "bully". Truth is the first time their kid runs foul of the coach for breaking the rules, or heck, for not earning their playing time, it is the coach's fault for being the strict disciplinarian. Can't have that because mom's already invested too much in junior's hockey career and junior always works hard. Must be the coach. Time to lead the campaign in the stands to get rid of him. I've seen this unfold plenty of times.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:12 pm
by JohnnyBuck
I once asked a legendary coach why he does not get back into coaching. He left during his prime, was well respected in the community and won several championships. He still enjoyed both the game and the kids. His answer to my question was this............ "Son, when I coached several years ago the parents use to drop their kids off at practice and say to me, 'if my child gives you any trouble you let me know!', today parents drop their kids off at practice and say to the child, 'if the coach gives you any trouble you let me know!' ".
Sums it up right there.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:15 pm
by defense
Coach can definitely bully. But having strict discipline is not bullying. If the rules are the same for everyone, and enforced to everyone equally, and the punishment is leveled equally, then to me the only question remaining is if the nature of the punishment. If the whole team is existing under the same circumstances it would not be bullying. Now the coach may be abusive or inappropriate etc. With punishment. Bit I don't see it as bullying if no one is singled out .
The original question was if a coach could be a bully,
It is definitely a tough call, tough subject. Technically, if someone holds fear over other people equally, he can be considered a bully. But this is a coach and a team, not regular adults. The question really is, what power are we comfortable giving a coach? What are we willing to let him do? A person could argue that a certain amount of "bullying " is acceptable from a coach of teenage boys. A person could also argue that it is not the best way to achieve the intended result. I don't think that there is a hard definition as to what a coach can and cannot do accross all of the HS hockey teams , and all teams in general.
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:50 pm
by drop the puck
JohnnyBuck wrote:I once asked a legendary coach why he does not get back into coaching. He left during his prime, was well respected in the community and won several championships. He still enjoyed both the game and the kids. His answer to my question was this............ "Son, when I coached several years ago the parents use to drop their kids off at practice and say to me, 'if my child gives you any trouble you let me know!', today parents drop their kids off at practice and say to the child, 'if the coach gives you any trouble you let me know!' ".
Sums it up right there.
Legendary in his own eyes.
Can a coach be a bully
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:51 pm
by illhaveanother
The best place to coach is at an orphanage,
It's pretty clear that a parent can be a bully to a coach,
And I think this happens more often than we know, I.e. Roseville, and from what I hear Orono
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:59 pm
by Marty
illhaveanother wrote:I have noticed a trend, are we as parents willing to call our coach a bully ?
If so would Herb ever been able to coach?
So if you read between the lines in Miracle, much of Brooks' behavior was attributed or tied to him having the team (used to beating each other up in the college ranks) rally together as a team rather than be individuals.
Those who know Brooks or played for him at SCSU or Minnesota would be better off commenting on his personality as a college coach. He was certainly successful at UM accounting for 3 National Titles. Was the coach in Miracle how Brooks always approached coaching ?
But he failed as a NHL coach where obviously he had to coach adult men.
Can a coach be a bully?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:14 pm
by pondhockeywizard
Reading between the lines tells me parents need to just shut up and let it be,
I talked to a dad of a bantam coach he said his son would get text messages from parents during the game telling him what he should be doing.
That's messed up!!
Re: can a coach be a bully ?
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:44 pm
by mulefarm
Marty wrote:illhaveanother wrote:I have noticed a trend, are we as parents willing to call our coach a bully ?
If so would Herb ever been able to coach?
So if you read between the lines in Miracle, much of Brooks' behavior was attributed or tied to him having the team (used to beating each other up in the college ranks) rally together as a team rather than be individuals.
Those who know Brooks or played for him at SCSU or Minnesota would be better off commenting on his personality as a college coach. He was certainly successful at UM accounting for 3 National Titles. Was the coach in Miracle how Brooks always approachedcoaching ?
I'm not sure he failed at the NHL level. I think he was way ahead of mentality of the league and how it he visioned it should be. I think the last stint with the penquins he opened it up and brought some real entertainment to the game. I read where his players said it was the most fun they had playing at that level. People would rather watch s 5-4 game with 30 shots/per team than a 2-1 game with 30 total shots.
But he failed as a NHL coach where obviously he had to coach adult men.