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I can understand the fact that winning the last tourney of the year is huge. What I am asking is why is this tournament so much more important than a tourney that has 1-5 ranked teams in say January? As a youth it was the holy grail to me. As an old man I can't figure out why I felt like that. It was in my time a true test of the best of the best. In today's world these tournaments happen 3-4 times a year at every level. So your team wins a stacked tournament in January but loses the state tournament. How does it make the state tourney winner better than that team that played and beat the best in January?

It's a good question. We had a discussion about this a couple of years ago over on the high school forum, comparing the Schwan Cup (which usually has a stronger field) to the State Tourney. Some of the points that came up:

-Some of it is just prestige. If you win a Tourney in Duluth in January and show up at school on Monday wearing an "X Tournament Champion!" sweatshirt, no one will care. Casual fans, or people uninterested in hockey, have never heard of these things. The State Tourney is where the glory is. And while this is more true at the high school level, it's also where the fans are.
-Coaches often build toward the end of the season, not some random tournament in January. Many are still tinkering around with things, looking for the right combinations, etc. Good coaches probably should care more about how the team is improving and progressing in these tournaments than they do about the actual results. If you lose the January tournament, oh well, you have another one next week. In the playoffs, there is no next week if you lose.
-The State Tournament gives everyone a chance to participate (beginning in districts), whereas these tournaments are invite-only. They automatically exclude a bunch of teams, some of which may be every bit as good as the participants.
-On a related note, the State Tournament allows for cinderella stories. It's also more of a marathon, what with the regional tournaments, and one could argue that having to win all of those games is a better test of who's actually best than a tournament that simply invites a few teams that are presumed to be the best.

Very valid points Karl. So you are saying it's the process of state's that make it better than your invite tourney in January. I would say that this is even more pronounced in HS (ie Burnsville vs Edina to get to St Paul last year). But as a top 5 seed in youth hockey, you are almost receiving byes the way this years set up is going down. From what I have seen in the past few years there are rarely any surprises in the final 4, at least at the top levels, obviously there are exceptions as with any tournament. Which brings me full circle to why does a tourney in January with what are expected to be the teams in the hunt at state's, especially if there are 16 teams in said tournament, matter more than The state tourney itself. Outside of the prestige, which I grant.

edgeless2 wrote:Very valid points Karl. So you are saying it's the process of state's that make it better than your invite tourney in January. I would say that this is even more pronounced in HS (ie Burnsville vs Edina to get to St Paul last year). But as a top 5 seed in youth hockey, you are almost receiving byes the way this years set up is going down. From what I have seen in the past few years there are rarely any surprises in the final 4, at least at the top levels, obviously there are exceptions as with any tournament. Which brings me full circle to why does a tourney in January with what are expected to be the teams in the hunt at state's, especially if there are 16 teams in said tournament, matter more than The state tourney itself. Outside of the prestige, which I grant.

I'd say Karl's points are all really valid especially for High School. I will grant that edgeless has a point regardign youth hockey, however don't you have like regional or district playoffs or playdowns just to get to state and then you have to face the opponents AT state.... again even at youth I'd still say the overall process is what makes it a "greater" feat, yes often times it is who is predicted to be there but what about the rare times it is not, those "cinderella stories" are what make it a greater stage and greater accomplishment because unlike an invite tourney there is no guarantee you will even get there and then to egt there and win it means something. So even at youth it's the process that it takes to get there along witht he prestige that make it "better"

edgeless2 wrote:I can understand the fact that winning the last tourney of the year is huge. What I am asking is why is this tournament so much more important than a tourney that has 1-5 ranked teams in say January? As a youth it was the holy grail to me. As an old man I can't figure out why I felt like that. It was in my time a true test of the best of the best. In today's world these tournaments happen 3-4 times a year at every level. So your team wins a stacked tournament in January but loses the state tournament. How does it make the state tourney winner better than that team that played and beat the best in January?

Good point. As a MH board member, perhaps we will have to look at the number of tournaments being put on and set some sort of limits re: # of participants, where they are from, # of tourneys allowed an association etc.

Not my ideas, but beware these ideas are being tossed around and for this very reason.


The state tourney is special because everyone (just about everyone) is offered the chance to participate. Some associations do no participate in a lot (or any) tourneys during the year. Some play limited number of games. For those smaller, poorer (perhaps wiser??) associations, the district and region tourneys are big things.

Perhaps others should consider cutting the costs of playing hockey and making things more special. Those 1 percent that move on are still going to move on after high school. And of all the peewees playing hockey how many actually play varsity hockey?

elliott70 wrote:

edgeless2 wrote:I can understand the fact that winning the last tourney of the year is huge. What I am asking is why is this tournament so much more important than a tourney that has 1-5 ranked teams in say January? As a youth it was the holy grail to me. As an old man I can't figure out why I felt like that. It was in my time a true test of the best of the best. In today's world these tournaments happen 3-4 times a year at every level. So your team wins a stacked tournament in January but loses the state tournament. How does it make the state tourney winner better than that team that played and beat the best in January?

Good point. As a MH board member, perhaps we will have to look at the number of tournaments being put on and set some sort of limits re: # of participants, where they are from, # of tourneys allowed an association etc.

Not my ideas, but beware these ideas are being tossed around and for this very reason.


The state tourney is special because everyone (just about everyone) is offered the chance to participate. Some associations do no participate in a lot (or any) tourneys during the year. Some play limited number of games. For those smaller, poorer (perhaps wiser??) associations, the district and region tourneys are big things.

Perhaps others should consider cutting the costs of playing hockey and making things more special. Those 1 percent that move on are still going to move on after high school. And of all the peewees playing hockey how many actually play varsity hockey?

move to Wisconsin when they get high school aged, just about a sure bet to play varsity in most schools here .... LOL.... to be serious though I'd wager that 100% of AA , A and B1 players would make it to varsity down here and probably a decent share of B2 players and even a C now and then.... up there it's probably A and AA and some occasional B1's and that's probably it I am guessing

elliott70 wrote:

edgeless2 wrote:I can understand the fact that winning the last tourney of the year is huge. What I am asking is why is this tournament so much more important than a tourney that has 1-5 ranked teams in say January? As a youth it was the holy grail to me. As an old man I can't figure out why I felt like that. It was in my time a true test of the best of the best. In today's world these tournaments happen 3-4 times a year at every level. So your team wins a stacked tournament in January but loses the state tournament. How does it make the state tourney winner better than that team that played and beat the best in January?

Good point. As a MH board member, perhaps we will have to look at the number of tournaments being put on and set some sort of limits re: # of participants, where they are from, # of tourneys allowed an association etc.

Not my ideas, but beware these ideas are being tossed around and for this very reason.


The state tourney is special because everyone (just about everyone) is offered the chance to participate. Some associations do no participate in a lot (or any) tourneys during the year. Some play limited number of games. For those smaller, poorer (perhaps wiser??) associations, the district and region tourneys are big things.

Perhaps others should consider cutting the costs of playing hockey and making things more special. Those 1 percent that move on are still going to move on after high school. And of all the peewees playing hockey how many actually play varsity hockey?

Exactly. How many actually do make varsity? So, I guess the answer is to limit the number of tournaments and games at the youth level. We wouldn't want any of those kids to have too much fun. Remember, it is about development. Development for a high school (or greater) career that will never happen.

Just let the kids play, already.

I agree. It's called Youth Hockey, not Pre-varsity or Varsity Prep Hockey.

Birds of a feather....

I hear arguments about development, development...
less games, more practice time...

But what about the current year and just having fun?

I was taught this early on by older friends of mine and made my kids life a lot easier when I realized his middle name was not Gretzky.


Coaching baseball I have two main rules, we come to play to win, but remember we are PLAYING (have fun).

Pitcher would get in to trouble,
I would visit the mound and call everyone in...
Question 1 What color is the sky?
Answer Blue
Q 2 What color is the grass?
A Green
OK then lets put on a smile and have fun.

OR
Did anyone catch any fish last weekend?
Numerous answers...
OK then lets put on a smile and have fun.

My assistant thought I was nuts (kids probably did, too).
But I went about 75% in win percentage and about 9 for 10 in the fun column.

Good luck to all the coaches and local associations in walking that fine line.