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What level should coaches start using Power play and Penalty kills units?

Irish wrote:What level should coaches start using Power play and Penalty kills units?

Not until College and pros, only when development is completely NOT part of the equation!

I think the question is actually at what age/level should a coach "shorten the bench"?

"Special teams" is code for increasing/reducing the playing time of players.

My opinion is each player needs to learn PP and PK.

I do like the idea of having 6 designated players to play with the goalie pulled.

Our coach is rolling the line for power plays and penalty kills.

In Squirts coach said wait until Peewee's for PP and PK.

In Peewee's coach said wait until Bantams for PP and PK.

In Bantams the coach told me that he doesn't see enough kids stepping up to play on the PP or PK.

Truth is he may be right for 1st and 2nd line, but there is no way our 3rd line should be on special teams. What really is getting frustrating is the fact we're losing games by one goal or tied three games this year.

I also agree youth hockey is about development, but every other team we've played this year shortens their bench. Mix in playing our third line on special teams and other teams shortening our bench we're already at a dis-advantage before the game starts.

Irish wrote:Our coach is rolling the line for power plays and penalty kills.

In Squirts coach said wait until Peewee's for PP and PK.

In Peewee's coach said wait until Bantams for PP and PK.

In Bantams the coach told me that he doesn't see enough kids stepping up to play on the PP or PK.

Truth is he may be right for 1st and 2nd line, but there is no way our 3rd line should be on special teams. What really is getting frustrating is the fact we're losing games by one goal or tied three games this year.

I also agree youth hockey is about development, but every other team we've played this year shortens their bench. Mix in playing our third line on special teams and other teams shortening our bench we're already at a dis-advantage before the game starts.

Just a wild guess ... your kid is on the 1st or 2nd line!

My son's bantam team started a pp and pk unit about half way through last season. It seemed to throw everyone off and 5 on 5 play suffered. The team by far played their best hockey in the first half of season and in no way did it help.
High School is right time to start with specialty units.

nofinish wrote:My son's bantam team started a pp and pk unit about half way through last season. It seemed to throw everyone off and 5 on 5 play suffered. The team by far played their best hockey in the first half of season and in no way did it help.
High School is right time to start with specialty units.

Let me ask. In the first half of the season did they roll the lines in all situations equally? I'm fine with no PP or PK units, but I do know there are situatons where the weaker players shouldn't be on the ice. It seems at the end of every game we either tie or lose by one goal. It leaves most of us wondering woulda, coulda, shoulda.
My only hope at the end of the year the coach will make some moves to put us over the top.
I strongly agree with development in youth hockey. I also know that majority of upper teams do have PP and PK units. Right or wrong teams that make these moves have the advantage.

some youth associations have rules in place on how they want a coach to handle special team situations. I have heard of more then one coach tell me that at a few bantam programs that they want 100% equal ice time on PP / PK situations. I do somewhat agree that its still youth hockey, and some discretion needs to be used, however the program that does work their top players, teaching them the skills, patients, puck movement, ect on the power play will help them as they move to the high school level.

to clarify what I mean by that, not every A banatm hockey player will make the high school Varsity team. and once you get to high school most teams have a TOP PP unit. if those players had more game time practice at the bantam level that will only help them as they grow, compared to the association that is trying to develop players who may never see varsity time. this is all just my opinion.

Again - everyone always wants the benched shorten until they find out their son/daughter in the one being shorted.

nofinish wrote:High School is right time to start with specialty units.

I agree.

The only time I encourage seeing a coach short shift a player, whether it be PP / PK / regular shift, is with one shift left in the game and the outcome is still in question (+/- 1 goal). At that point, you should go for the win, but everyone plays in OT. IMO.

Although, some kids just shouldn't be out there short-handed due to speed, effort, and positional play. But, play them anyways so long as it's not a kill with 1 minute left and the game is (was ) tied.

Plain and simple. In certain situations the coach needs to play the better players.

Irish wrote:Plain and simple. In certain situations the coach needs to play the better players.

But then you would be upset your kid was sitting.....

Just kidding.....

What's your angle Irish?

what your taiking about is association hockey. pp and pk training should start at squrits The reason it dosen't is because it more work for the coaches and most don't no where to start so they kick the can down the road. You don't get better playing winter hockey. Most learn these skills from intense summer programs. If your kid doesn't like to sit on the bench work hard and get better or go play at a lower level. Everyone will be happy

I see no problem teaching PP and PK to all the kids and letting them learn situational differences as Squirts. If you are asking about playing a short-list of kids more than others, it depends on the size of the roster and strength of the team and players. Maybe okay in a small association where the A team has 10 skaters.

Jimmy401 wrote:What's your angle Irish?

His angle is that he obviously thinks his 10 year old superstar is better than the others and should be rewarded for all the money he's spent "developing" him even if it's the at the expense of the other 10 year olds.

O-townClown wrote:I see no problem teaching PP and PK to all the kids and letting them learn situational differences as Squirts. If you are asking about playing a short-list of kids more than others, it depends on the size of the roster and strength of the team and players. Maybe okay in a small association where the A team has 10 skaters.

Maybe I missed something here, but how do you "shorten" a bench with only 10 skaters? They are all going out every other shift, how do you shorten that?

Not sure if you have ever tried to run a PP unit with a 10 skater team, but it is difficult, unless you play kids for 2 or 3 minutes straight...

The PK would only involve 9 skaters or less, so again difficult to not have everyone involved.

Irish wrote:Our coach is rolling the line for power plays and penalty kills.

In Squirts coach said wait until Peewee's for PP and PK.

In Peewee's coach said wait until Bantams for PP and PK.

In Bantams the coach told me that he doesn't see enough kids stepping up to play on the PP or PK.

Truth is he may be right for 1st and 2nd line, but there is no way our 3rd line should be on special teams. What really is getting frustrating is the fact we're losing games by one goal or tied three games this year.

I also agree youth hockey is about development, but every other team we've played this year shortens their bench. Mix in playing our third line on special teams and other teams shortening our bench we're already at a dis-advantage before the game starts.

Ok, JR is 1st year Bantam, jumped from 3rd line winger to 1st line. Take it easy, everyone (kids and parents) can tell when your kids take more play time from other kids.

Rusty Blades wrote:

Irish wrote:Plain and simple. In certain situations the coach needs to play the better players.

But then you would be upset your kid was sitting.....

Just kidding.....

True

Bluewhitefan wrote:

Jimmy401 wrote:What's your angle Irish?

His angle is that he obviously thinks his 10 year old superstar is better than the others and should be rewarded for all the money he's spent "developing" him even if it's the at the expense of the other 10 year olds.

BlueWhiteFan- Actually I have no problem if the coach teaches power play and penalty kill to all three lines as long as the coach has the right line out in key situations during the game. Just like majority of other teams we play against.
If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching. Say what you want, but I expect more...............

Good luck!

Irish wrote:

Bluewhitefan wrote:

Jimmy401 wrote:What's your angle Irish?

His angle is that he obviously thinks his 10 year old superstar is better than the others and should be rewarded for all the money he's spent "developing" him even if it's the at the expense of the other 10 year olds.

BlueWhiteFan- Actually I have no problem if the coach teaches power play and penalty kill to all three lines as long as the coach has the right line out in key situations during the game. Just like majority of other teams we play against.
If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching. Say what you want, but I expect more...............

Good luck!

No problem teaching all 3 lines the power play and kill? You mean that you think that teaching less than all the kids the power play and kill is ok at the younger ages as your message implies? Sounds to me that this is more important to you only and not your team or coach. Do you define the "key situations" or do you let your coach do this?

Irish wrote:

Bluewhitefan wrote:

Jimmy401 wrote:What's your angle Irish?

His angle is that he obviously thinks his 10 year old superstar is better than the others and should be rewarded for all the money he's spent "developing" him even if it's the at the expense of the other 10 year olds.

BlueWhiteFan- Actually I have no problem if the coach teaches power play and penalty kill to all three lines as long as the coach has the right line out in key situations during the game. Just like majority of other teams we play against.
If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching. Say what you want, but I expect more...............

Good luck!

"If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching."

Maybe Irish, just maybe, your coach does know something about coaching and building a team and keeping your team confident when it is important later in the year. What is your record? Is only fair if you're going to complain.

In ass. hockey there is very little coaching just roll lines and run drills. coaches either don't know how or to lazy to teach the kids anything.Expect very little and you won;t be disapionted.We been thru the system and the problem is state wide. out side training if you want to get better

Whopper2 wrote:In ass. hockey there is very little coaching just roll lines and run drills. coaches either don't know how or to lazy to teach the kids anything.Expect very little and you won;t be disapionted.We been thru the system and the problem is state wide. out side training if you want to get better

The wide brush used in your comment makes this comment kind of a Whopper don't you think Whopper?

I'm not sure what the axe you have to grind is but if you want anyone to take your comments seriously at all I'd suggest you be a little bit more reasonable with them.

Section 8 guy wrote:

Whopper2 wrote:In ass. hockey there is very little coaching just roll lines and run drills. coaches either don't know how or to lazy to teach the kids anything.Expect very little and you won;t be disapionted.We been thru the system and the problem is state wide. out side training if you want to get better

The wide brush used in your comment makes this comment kind of a Whopper don't you think Whopper?

I'm not sure what the axe you have to grind is but if you want anyone to take your comments seriously at all I'd suggest you be a little bit more reasonable with them.

I think he's being pretty reasonable. My experience is that his statement applies to about 80% of association teams out there. That means it does not pertain to them all but the broad brush certainly applies.

Jimmy401 wrote:

Irish wrote:

Bluewhitefan wrote: His angle is that he obviously thinks his 10 year old superstar is better than the others and should be rewarded for all the money he's spent "developing" him even if it's the at the expense of the other 10 year olds.

BlueWhiteFan- Actually I have no problem if the coach teaches power play and penalty kill to all three lines as long as the coach has the right line out in key situations during the game. Just like majority of other teams we play against.
If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching. Say what you want, but I expect more...............

Good luck!

No problem teaching all 3 lines the power play and kill? You mean that you think that teaching less than all the kids the power play and kill is ok at the younger ages as your message implies? Sounds to me that this is more important to you only and not your team or coach. Do you define the "key situations" or do you let your coach do this?

Jimmy- Actually I have no problem if the coach teaches power play and penalty kill to all three lines as long as the coach has the right line out in key situations during the game. Just like majority of other teams we play against.
If our coach continues to rolls lines in key situations you can hardly call that coaching. Say what you want, but I expect more...............

Always will be a situation where the key players should be on the ice. Like I said. Rolling the lines in all situations is hardly called coaching. Its called keeping the parents and kids happy.