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I've read several posts around here saying that Minnesota should cecede from the union, as it were, USA Hockey. What are the benefits, really, to any of our kids from playing within the framework of USA Hockey?

In my experience, the thing is a useless bureaucracy that does little but make rules that most Minnesotans (what do they know about hockey in Colorado, anyway?) disagree with.

This sport needs to get back to the spirit of rink ratting and pond hockey, and USA hockey is definitely moving the other way.

Discussion?

zipperdude wrote:I've read several posts around here saying that Minnesota should cecede from the union, as it were, USA Hockey. What are the benefits, really, to any of our kids from playing within the framework of USA Hockey?

In my experience, the thing is a useless bureaucracy that does little but make rules that most Minnesotans (what do they know about hockey in Colorado, anyway?) disagree with.

This sport needs to get back to the spirit of rink ratting and pond hockey, and USA hockey is definitely moving the other way.

Discussion?

Let's build a big bubble over Minnesota and not let any one in. We know better than everyone else. This discussion fills the "you're not one of us" sterotype!!!

zipperdude wrote:This sport needs to get back to the spirit of rink ratting and pond hockey, and USA hockey is definitely moving the other way.

No it doesn't.

Players nowadays (from mite to pro) are far superior on average than any of us were growing up. Why? Because they train ... structured training. Elite players are not made on the pond. Like any sport, they are made through (superior genetics withheld), are made through training.

Are the best basketball players street ballers?
The best soccer players shoeless wonders in Haiti?

Sure, unstructured game / practice time has it's place ... but definitely not at the center.

People need to quit romanticizing the "when I was your age" drama. No one gives a flying screw about how far you pushed a wheelbarrow up a hill both ways to school in 100 degree heat through 4 feet of snow.

QuackerTracker wrote:

zipperdude wrote:I've read several posts around here saying that Minnesota should cecede from the union, as it were, USA Hockey. What are the benefits, really, to any of our kids from playing within the framework of USA Hockey?

In my experience, the thing is a useless bureaucracy that does little but make rules that most Minnesotans (what do they know about hockey in Colorado, anyway?) disagree with.

This sport needs to get back to the spirit of rink ratting and pond hockey, and USA hockey is definitely moving the other way.

Discussion?

Let's build a big bubble over Minnesota and not let any one in. We know better than everyone else. This discussion fills the "you're not one of us" sterotype!!!

Sarcasm aside....What benefits are we getting being under the umbrella of USA Hockey? Insurance and a magazine? My bet is that Minnesota Hockey could get the same (or better) insurance coverage than we get from USA Hockey. Heck, we don't even send teams to the National's!!

Can ANYONE provide any reason as to why it's a good idea for us to be part of USA Hockey? What do we get out of it??

One thing at a time. Still trying to figure out why peewees can't check; why there is no touch-up offsides and why there is no Tier 1 hockey in Minnesota duirng the winter season.

Aint nowon now how to spel anymor

@MnMade-4-Life,

The mission of USA Hockey is not to create elite players.

The stated mission of USA Hockey is "to promote the growth of hockey in America and provide the best possible experience for all participants by encouraging, developing, advancing and administering the sport"

My argument against USA Hockey, is that a plurality of local organizations, IMO, can achieve these ends better than can a national one. Different local organizations will approach this challenge in different manners, and only at that time can we truly judge what is best.

This just doesn't feel like the kind of thing that needs administering at a national level. Looking at the poll so far, I'd say at least more than a few people agree with me.

muckandgrind wrote:

QuackerTracker wrote:

zipperdude wrote:I've read several posts around here saying that Minnesota should cecede from the union, as it were, USA Hockey. What are the benefits, really, to any of our kids from playing within the framework of USA Hockey?

In my experience, the thing is a useless bureaucracy that does little but make rules that most Minnesotans (what do they know about hockey in Colorado, anyway?) disagree with.

This sport needs to get back to the spirit of rink ratting and pond hockey, and USA hockey is definitely moving the other way.

Discussion?

Let's build a big bubble over Minnesota and not let any one in. We know better than everyone else. This discussion fills the "you're not one of us" sterotype!!!

Sarcasm aside....What benefits are we getting being under the umbrella of USA Hockey? Insurance and a magazine? My bet is that Minnesota Hockey could get the same (or better) insurance coverage than we get from USA Hockey. Heck, we don't even send teams to the National's!!

Can ANYONE provide any reason as to why it's a good idea for us to be part of USA Hockey? What do we get out of it??

ADM??


I say we just copy Canada...

zipperdude wrote:@MnMade-4-Life,

The mission of USA Hockey is not to create elite players.

The stated mission of USA Hockey is "to promote the growth of hockey in America and provide the best possible experience for all participants by encouraging, developing, advancing and administering the sport"

My argument against USA Hockey, is that a plurality of local organizations, IMO, can achieve these ends better than can a national one. Different local organizations will approach this challenge in different manners, and only at that time can we truly judge what is best.

This just doesn't feel like the kind of thing that needs administering at a national level. Looking at the poll so far, I'd say at least more than a few people agree with me.

I always thought it was USA hockey's mission to collect $40 from as many people as possible...

Oh, and to show us how to jam 100 kids on a sheet of ice.

zipperdude wrote:@MnMade-4-Life,

The mission of USA Hockey is not to create elite players.

The stated mission of USA Hockey is "to promote the growth of hockey in America and provide the best possible experience for all participants by encouraging, developing, advancing and administering the sport"

My argument against USA Hockey, is that a plurality of local organizations, IMO, can achieve these ends better than can a national one. Different local organizations will approach this challenge in different manners, and only at that time can we truly judge what is best.

This just doesn't feel like the kind of thing that needs administering at a national level. Looking at the poll so far, I'd say at least more than a few people agree with me.

I was referring solely to the "pond hockey" statement.

As far as USA Hockey goes ... they can hardly see the forest from the trees. I'd prefer a MN / ND / WI centric organization. Put the power in the hands of locals. Our areas most likely require different thoughts / processes than most other locales.

Ask yourself this question ... Does an organization in SoCal or Boston require the same things as the Twin Cities? I don't know the answer, but I'd assume not.

I say we just copy Canada...[/quote]


Prob. not a bad start...those guys are pretty good.

Deep Breath wrote:One thing at a time. Still trying to figure out why peewees can't check

Not defending it, but I believe the reason was because they feel they lose too many kids between Squirts and PeeWees. Hopefully the same thing won't happen between PeeWees and Bantams now.

Kids drop out between squirts and peewees because of the gross increase in expense at that level. I know of plenty of kids not playing because of $$. Does anybody practice or play outdoors anymore?

The biggest change in peewees this year was not the loss of checking, but rather the loss of passing. My kid's peewee team (and all his competing teams) look like the squirts of two years ago, with players taking turns skating the length of the ice to score (looking at the puck the whole time). Wonder why?

I got an e-mail from Minnesota Hockey about Board openings and elections. Maybe the most vocal on this topic should run....

zipperdude wrote:Kids drop out between squirts and peewees because of the gross increase in expense at that level. I know of plenty of kids not playing because of $$. Does anybody practice or play outdoors anymore?

The biggest change in peewees this year was not the loss of checking, but rather the loss of passing. My kid's peewee team (and all his competing teams) look like the squirts of two years ago, with players taking turns skating the length of the ice to score (looking at the puck the whole time). Wonder why?

I'm so sick of people pining for the old days and how great they were. I know our association does TRY to practice outdoors but between the weather and the lack of support from the city its not possible to get consistent outdoor ice time

@C-dad

could you post contact info on how to get involved?

@silentbutdeadly3139

Come to Duluth. That's what we do. Neighborhood associations, parent maintained rinks. The city is not even involved, totally grass roots. It is totally possible. We still skate inside at the peewee and up, but there is still a good bit of work done outside.

Maybe this is part of what leads me to think that as much can be kept local and simple, should be kept local and simple.

love the profile name, BTW

zipperdude wrote:@C-dad

could you post contact info on how to get involved?

@silentbutdeadly3139

Come to Duluth. That's what we do. Neighborhood associations, parent maintained rinks. The city is not even involved, totally grass roots. It is totally possible. We still skate inside at the peewee and up, but there is still a good bit of work done outside.

Maybe this is part of what leads me to think that as much can be kept local and simple, should be kept local and simple.

love the profile name, BTW

The e-mail said to contact dennisg@minnesotahockey.org with questions or if you want to run for the positions. I would bet you could go to minnesotahockey.org and find more info about it too.

To make everyone happy, Minnesota Hockey should Choose to split up into two bodies, Progressive and Regressive.

Progressive – Those that want a forward looking philosophy that includes high level training, development and coaching (no parents) and yes, elite AAA teams that compete during the winter season outside the state against what are currently far superior AAA elite teams. This group would remain with USA Hockey.

Regressive- Those that want their kids to play the game like “they” used to….association based, old school, rink rat, on frozen pond, with no desire or expectation of advancing beyond the “hallowed” State High School Hockey Tournament. This group should secede from USA Hockey and stay as Minnesota Youth Hockey, with their own set of rules, most of which exist today.

By doing this, theoretically there would be no more whining, or complaining from either side. The Regressive’s would get what they want, a sheltered existence living in the past and the Progressives would get what they want, the opportunity to compete and improve.

However, somehow, the Regressive’s would still continue to whine and complain about the advancements that the Progressive’s are making and that the Progressive’s should not enjoy success but should have to endure the same misery that they (the Regressive’s) have chosen.

In a sense, Minnesota Hockey is like the old Soviet Union. The “old guard” wants to build an “iron curtain” around the state to keep the “evil” outside influence (AAA Hockey) out of the State and keep the Progressive’s from being able to have the freedom of choice to excel. The “old guard” wants to keep everything the same, the way that they want it. They believe that they know best. Progress is a dirty word.

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level.

Wake up Minnesota, and come out from your underground bunkers and “iron curtains” and get a look at the real world of hockey!

Blackhawkfan wrote:Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota.

You forgot to mention Orlando.

Who? Mission,Honeybaked,Blues, Compuware??? They are not "far" better than the Orange for example.

I enjoyed your ideas until you stumbled, fell flat on your face and broke your stupid nose with the following....

"Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level. "

While it is true that there are really good hockey players all over the country. Minnesota still outproduces all other states (and it's not even close) in sending kids to the next level.

I love the way that "you people" from the rest of the country view yourselves!! Makes for a good laugh. We have been training and creating great hockey players for a long, long time. We are pretty good at it. Just because your town is just now becoming relevant, doesn't mean that you have some kind of newfound info. that we don't and we are never going to be able to catch on. It just means that now you are only about 50 years behind MN in producing quality players.

I don't have an underground bunker. I have a fish house.

oldschoolpuckster wrote:I enjoyed your ideas until you stumbled, fell flat on your face and broke your stupid nose with the following....

"Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level. "

While it is true that there are really good hockey players all over the country. Minnesota still outproduces all other states (and it's not even close) in sending kids to the next level.

I love the way that "you people" from the rest of the country view yourselves!! Makes for a good laugh. We have been training and creating great hockey players for a long, long time. We are pretty good at it. Just because your town is just now becoming relevant, doesn't mean that you have some kind of newfound info. that we don't and we are never going to be able to catch on. It just means that now you are only about 50 years behind MN in producing quality players.

To show you how "in the dark" you are.......I am from Minnesota....

It sure seems like it.........

So whats your angle? Not getting the training you want or need? Then you haven't looked very hard. Its here.

old goalie85 wrote:Who? Mission,Honeybaked,Blues, Compuware??? They are not "far" better than the Orange for example.

Orlando is one of "the other cities"