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Apparently North Branch sent a letter out to their membership stating that the co-op for next season will not be taking place. Sounds like it was Cambridge board that voted against it.

It will be a bad thing for both groups

B-2 at best at the higher levels with kids waiving out left and right. Bantams will head to HS

Squirts might be able to each have a B-1 team

Blaine loves getting those stud Cambridge freshmen........

The talented few will all leave again

Sounds like parents getting in the way again.

muckandgrind wrote:Sounds like parents getting in the way again.

The parents have no concerns other than, would be c team Billy, making the top team. What they don't understand now is that Billy's not going to get any better watching elite teammate Johnny, along with a couple others, get all the puck time to compete. The few people I talked to said, "It's like civil war now" in Cambridge with the better players parents planning to get their kids out.

Huge, selfish, mistake that will damage the development of all hockey players in the region. The boys will be a mess and the girls are dead. How can the planners look around and not see what's happening. If you're not Roseau you need 4-6 teams per level, in the metro, to compete. Top associations have 8-10-12 squirt teams.

Hello, you're not competing with Spring Lake Park. If your kid can't make the A team in Wayzata, or Roseau, or even North Metro, is he really an A player? No. The other indicator is tournaments. Some associations do ok in their district and then head out to a Squirt A tourney and realize, wow, maybe we're not A. That can be a big eye opener as to how much more work needs to be done.

Another huge issue is recruiting is made easier when the association and the teams have some success. From an outsider, with a 4 year old, it sounds fun if all you hear is how well the teams are doing. We're growing, improving, etc. I don't care if the new family is from Warroad if they hear things aren't happy and healthy they may opt to give basketball a try. The recruiting angle is often forgotten but, as I've suggested, nothing is more important than recruiting new 4 and 5 year olds. 10-20 new mites per year doesn't cut it. The goal is 60 new mites a year. They just made that task significantly more difficult.

This sounds like an individual decision instead of a board decision. Stupid.

Wish I would of seen this feedback last year when ST. Louis Park opted out of the co-op with Mpls at the squirt level. After having a pretty successful season the year before, a few people at SLP with their own personal and business interests in mind, convinced the board to go it alone at the squirt level. Result, no A team At SLP. Best players forced to look at other options. One A player to Armstrong, one to Mpls, and a few played B at SLP. Mpls Squirt A team was average. With 3, 4, 5, added players that would of strengthened a co-oped MplsPark team, more kids would of played at the correct level in both associations, and set the table for the PW's and bantam co-oped teams by playing together sooner.

But, as usually is the case in these situations, some adults don't look at the big picture. Only what they think is best for them or their own kids.

this is too bad....for both associations, where in the world will North Branch get their ice now, they have already co-op with st. francis, don't know if that is an option again. Hopefully this decision is not based on the losing records of some of the teams since the wrong levels were chose to begin with, there will be people who just plain quit over this after putting in 4-7 years of blood, sweat and tears.....

golemom wrote:this is too bad....for both associations, where in the world will North Branch get their ice now, they have already co-op with st. francis, don't know if that is an option again. Hopefully this decision is not based on the losing records of some of the teams since the wrong levels were chose to begin with, there will be people who just plain quit over this after putting in 4-7 years of blood, sweat and tears.....

Chisago Lakes... or Forest Lake, closer to District 2 team Anyways!!!

I believe the NB high school uses chisagos ice and the times for them are terrible, don't know if they have any hours to sell. Question can two associations in different districts merge or co-op together?

For several reasons it's best to co-op with a youth association that shares a border, a neighboring youth association. Sometimes it's just levels that co-op and not entire associations.

golemom wrote:this is too bad....for both associations, where in the world will North Branch get their ice now, they have already co-op with st. francis, don't know if that is an option again. Hopefully this decision is not based on the losing records of some of the teams since the wrong levels were chose to begin with, there will be people who just plain quit over this after putting in 4-7 years of blood, sweat and tears.....

I'm sure C-I is banking on NB to still use their rink since they were in financial trouble before the co-op. Sounds like it will either be a co-op with Pine City, or bouncing around to multiple rinks for practice. Also a lot more outdoor ice if the arena is started in Stacy..... Supposed to have a ribbon cutting in May from what I hear.

I think this is absolutely the result of the records of all the teams last year. But I don't know what else the boards should have done. To merge with another association and play B1 hockey makes no sense at all.

I talked to a bunch of youth hockey parents (bantam and peewee) last weekend and only one parent thought they should keep merging. The thought was the merge was probably good for NB but didn't benefit C-I in any way.

I would be willing to bet there are fewer kids leaving the program now than there was with the merge.

C-I will be middle of the pack at best at the high school level the next year or so but that has nothing to do with a merge at the youth level. After that they should be back in the upper half.

And the girls program wasn't involved with the merge with NB at all. They coop at the hs level with Mora and Pine City and work with those programs at the youth level as well. Some years they merge at some levels and some years they don't; whatever makes the most sense.

Both programs were fine 2 years ago and they will be just fine now, this is not the end of hockey in the area. Maybe both associations can now focus more on player development and recruiting and build their own programs.

observer wrote:For several reasons it's best to co-op with a youth association that shares a border, a neighboring youth association. Sometimes it's just levels that co-op and not entire associations.

North Branch and Forest Lake do share a border. Forest Lake and Chisago co-opped at U12A the year before last, one in D2 and one in D10. I hope the ribbon-cutting is not just a rumor, it would be great for the North Branch program to have an arena, there just isn't enough ice available within a half-hour drive for them. It would be great for the growth of that program.

Maybe both associations can now focus more on player development and recruiting and build their own programs.[/quote]

Look at the D10 Advanced 15 roster. There are a 5 or so kids who developed playing A hockey, not B1

Cowboy wrote:I think this is absolutely the result of the records of all the teams last year. But I don't know what else the boards should have done. To merge with another association and play B1 hockey makes no sense at all.

I talked to a bunch of youth hockey parents (bantam and peewee) last weekend and only one parent thought they should keep merging. The thought was the merge was probably good for NB but didn't benefit C-I in any way.

I would be willing to bet there are fewer kids leaving the program now than there was with the merge.

C-I will be middle of the pack at best at the high school level the next year or so but that has nothing to do with a merge at the youth level. After that they should be back in the upper half.

And the girls program wasn't involved with the merge with NB at all. They coop at the hs level with Mora and Pine City and work with those programs at the youth level as well. Some years they merge at some levels and some years they don't; whatever makes the most sense.

Both programs were fine 2 years ago and they will be just fine now, this is not the end of hockey in the area. Maybe both associations can now focus more on player development and recruiting and build their own programs.

- C-I will be about the only AA HS to play B-1 in youth hockey. Becker?

Sorry, the future looks terrible for C-I HS. Possible future in 11-12 years. (talented group of A mites)

- Like the other tiny associations in the district, you will now NEVER see C-I kids in the Advanced 15's, Super Series, or Selects coming from a B-1 association.

- I will bet the farm the top C-I kids will not return.

- You must talk to a different group of parents.

- What a chance C-I had with NB....

- Now your kid will make the top team and might be the star.

THE FACTS

If your talking about the high school team being competative in 7AA then yes it will be a long time.

I was talking more about having at least a .500 record and finishing in the upper half of the Mississippi 8.

But since the A bantams won what 2 games in D10 and the A peewees didn't win a game I really doubt that a merged team would have challenged the top teams in 7AA either.

Cambridge will probably play B1 next year and maybe for a few years after that, but everybody forgets Cambridge was playing A level hockey on their own at some levels long before merging with NB. And having more success I might add.

This sounds like NB people panicking because they will be scrambling for ice and not have any goalies either from what I've heard.

I hear there is one bantam player from C-I that will probably make varsity next year, but after him I am not aware of any 'top' players. If your talking peewees then I am aware of 1 family that was probably leaving whether there was a merge or not.

Send those North Branch kids down here to Forest Lake. Just make us stronger and give the kids a chance to play at the level that is appropriate.

Cowboy wrote:If your talking about the high school team being competative in 7AA then yes it will be a long time.

I was talking more about having at least a .500 record and finishing in the upper half of the Mississippi 8.

But since the A bantams won what 2 games in D10 and the A peewees didn't win a game I really doubt that a merged team would have challenged the top teams in 7AA either.

Cambridge will probably play B1 next year and maybe for a few years after that, but everybody forgets Cambridge was playing A level hockey on their own at some levels long before merging with NB. And having more success I might add.

This sounds like NB people panicking because they will be scrambling for ice and not have any goalies either from what I've heard.

I hear there is one bantam player from C-I that will probably make varsity next year, but after him I am not aware of any 'top' players. If your talking peewees then I am aware of 1 family that was probably leaving whether there was a merge or not.

- C-I will be way under .500 next year and worse after that.

- The Bantams did well for losing 6 kids (much more talent would have been back for next year).... Strong HS program and they would have stayed. PeeWees lost 7 games by one goal and hate to say, but had major goalie problems. Squirts went from 1 B-1 team last year, to having A and B-1 teams that did well. The squirts will be hurt the most.... Took second in the Brainerd tournament losing to a very good STMA team. Squirts also have a CINB spring team that is turning heads. Everything could have changed next year.... The playing A and B-1 WAS THE PROBLEM.

- With the CINB kids that left combined with the ones that stayed(went up to NB and C-I HS) and the current A BANTAMS North Branch HS also had 5 minimum that would have improved C-I team in a huge way. Yes, compete..

- played A level BEFORE..... So they will try this year with more success?

Hunter Miska, who made the advanced 15's, will do at goalie. A drive to practice is probably about the same to other rinks.

One Bantam might make varsity? future?

I agree that the hs will struggle next year but I think they will get better after that.

I also agree that the problem was trying to play A this year with all the issues that were brought up at both the Bantam and Peewee levels. That is the C-I boards fault from what I've heard. If they would have droped every team down a level the merge would have continued.

I don't understand why the merge had to be all or nothing. Like at Squirts, why not merge at the A level and have each association have their own B1, B2 teams or whatever? If they were cooped at the hs level then yes merge all the way through, but that is not the case. Maybe they should have each had a B1 peewee team last year and a merged B2 or C team. And at bantams, maybe a merged B1 & B2 team.

I already stated they would probably play B1 this year.

Didn't H. Miska skate out at bantams 2 years ago? And he made the 15's as a goalie? That's really amazing, I was not aware of that. But my goalie reference was concerning the youth levels. I was told that N.B. didn't have any goalies at the PW or BT levels, is that correct?

It's hard to blame the peewee troubles on the goalie. While he may not have been stellar, I believe the A peewee team averaged 1.5 goals a game. You are really asking a lot of a goalie if you score less than 3 goals per game.

Cowboy wrote:I agree that the hs will struggle next year but I think they will get better after that.

I also agree that the problem was trying to play A this year with all the issues that were brought up at both the Bantam and Peewee levels. That is the C-I boards fault from what I've heard. If they would have droped every team down a level the merge would have continued.

I don't understand why the merge had to be all or nothing. Like at Squirts, why not merge at the A level and have each association have their own B1, B2 teams or whatever? If they were cooped at the hs level then yes merge all the way through, but that is not the case. Maybe they should have each had a B1 peewee team last year and a merged B2 or C team. And at bantams, maybe a merged B1 & B2 team.

I already stated they would probably play B1 this year.

Didn't H. Miska skate out at bantams 2 years ago? And he made the 15's as a goalie? That's really amazing, I was not aware of that. But my goalie reference was concerning the youth levels. I was told that N.B. didn't have any goalies at the PW or BT levels, is that correct?

It's hard to blame the peewee troubles on the goalie. While he may not have been stellar, I believe the A peewee team averaged 1.5 goals a game. You are really asking a lot of a goalie if you score less than 3 goals per game.

You had mentioned panic, yes, their is panic. Panic for both C-I and NB parents.

Panic for parents with kids that played A and now will have to play B-1 at the same level.
Panic from what people will think if they move, or waive out, so their kid can play with like competition.
Panic from decisions of small group that will hurt C-I and possibly NB IF they don't co-op with another association.

If you want to hear panic take the time to talk to some of the C-I parents that had players on A teams...... They are leaving!

I have talked to some of them. They seem indifferent about it.

They are going to move from C-I so they can play B1 bantams in another association? I don't see more than a couple of them making an A team in another association.

If they are good enough to play A bantams in Blaine they should have no problem playing varsity in Cambridge. I'm not doubting you, I'm just questioning their motive. Moving doesn't make much sense to me.

But hockey parents never were too rational especially when their child shows the slightest bit of talent.

I stand by my statement that fewer kids will move now than when there was a merge. Agree?

Merge is the wrong term. Merging associations is a big deal and then you end up with one. Associations can co-op teams at various levels with permission from their District.

Inver Grove Heights and South St. Paul only co-op at Bantam
Como and Johnson co-op at the Bantam level
Minneapolis and St. Louis Park co-op at PeeWee and Bantam. They each have their own Mite and Squirt programs.

The idea is to have more players skating at the appropriate level. By co-oping more levels, and teams, more kids end up at the proper level. By having fewer kids it's guaranteed CI, and North Branch, will have more kids skating at the wrong level where their long term development will be affected. I like the Mites on their own so they can work on recruiting specific to their community. Parents of 4-5 year olds are already intimidated by hockey so you don't want to tell them they have to drive all over to be a mite. Recruit and get mites in the game and then suggest if they are interested in traveling Squirts they try out for a co-op A team. Maybe only co-op at A and have the Bs stay in their community association.

observer wrote: ... Maybe only co-op at A and have the Bs stay in their community association.

That would be nice if each association has enough skaters. Once the associations co-op at an A level, one association or the other often needs to combine at the B level(s) as well to field enough skaters. Each association's needs (talent and numbers) change from year to year. That's why it's been difficult for these associations to be on the same page for more than a year at a time.

Merging would be a better long-term solution for the kids, IMO, but that's not going to happen if the parents aren't even able to agree on a co-op.

Cowboy wrote:I have talked to some of them. They seem indifferent about it.

They are going to move from C-I so they can play B1 bantams in another association? I don't see more than a couple of them making an A team in another association.

If they are good enough to play A bantams in Blaine they should have no problem playing varsity in Cambridge. I'm not doubting you, I'm just questioning their motive. Moving doesn't make much sense to me.

But hockey parents never were too rational especially when their child shows the slightest bit of talent.

I stand by my statement that fewer kids will move now than when there was a merge. Agree?

There are 3 kids from C-I that played A Squirts as 4th graders and one as a mite aged 3rd grader this year. So they are going to come back as b-1 Squirts next year? With little talent after that, the 3rd grader will play two years of b-1 after playing A's? I know you believe better competition doesn't help a player improve, but come on!!..

Do you know where the Bantams that left went? One didn't make the Blaine A Bantams, he made varsity..

More kids will move and at younger ages. Next to impossible to get recognized for their effort playing b-1 in a tiny association.

MrBoDangles wrote:

Cowboy wrote:I have talked to some of them. They seem indifferent about it.

They are going to move from C-I so they can play B1 bantams in another association? I don't see more than a couple of them making an A team in another association.

If they are good enough to play A bantams in Blaine they should have no problem playing varsity in Cambridge. I'm not doubting you, I'm just questioning their motive. Moving doesn't make much sense to me.

But hockey parents never were too rational especially when their child shows the slightest bit of talent.

I stand by my statement that fewer kids will move now than when there was a merge. Agree?

There are 3 kids from C-I that played A Squirts as 4th graders and one as a mite aged 3rd grader this year. So they are going to come back as b-1 Squirts next year? With little talent after that, the 3rd grader will play two years of b-1 after playing A's? I know you believe better competition doesn't help a player improve, but come on!!..

Do you know where the Bantams that left went? One didn't make the Blaine A Bantams, he made varsity..

More kids will move and at younger ages. Next to impossible to get recognized for their effort playing b-1 in a tiny association.

Next to impossible to get recongnized - Huh what do you want to get recognized for??

You're telling me your A Squirt team players enjoyed last year getting pounded on every game in D10? Let them play at a level they can at least have some success otherwise they will get sick of losing, losing and losing like your A teams have been doing over and over in D10 for years.